Salomon Quest Tech inserts failure thread

[DoWork]

You guys act like salomon is some giant conglomerate of people out to screw over hopes and dreams of skiers.

Never did I say that, but that is actually what happened if you think about it. You said so yourself just now that the part was outsourced and nobody really checked it. It certainly wasn't intentional but shit if that isn't failure through group nonchalance, I don't know what is.

I actually think Solly was/is one of the best ski manufacturers out there, and that is really where this becomes so fucked. They knew better and had to tools to ensure this would never happen.

Bottom line, my previous post was meant to mean that bitching and moaning about solly isnt going to do anything. Helping TC out is. Focus the concentration that way.

Well here's the deal. I really do agree with you about keeping cool heads and such. Just blind rage isn't helping anyone, but people DO need an outlet to vent at times. I know I do, and I'd have to say that throughout the whole ordeal the part that sucks the most about not seeing anything tangible yet from Solly is this- It's not OUR fault either! WE didn't put that boot out, yet when the occasion arose and a fellow skier and mag was in trouble, TONS of people can to his aid. People who had never met or even heard of him before this gave more than most would understand. Why is it so wrong to expect the same from people at Salomon, who had a hell of a lot more to do with it than we did??? If we weren't doing shit and just running our mouths, then I'd say we're just internet douchebags- but many here have given up their skis, gear and money to help someone they feel a kinship and bond with who has certainly gotten a raw deal for trusting a veteran brand. I don't think it's wrong at all to hold out hope that someone there will find it in their heart to do something instead of just feeling bad- which is just a sad version of the inaction you are so thoroughly disgusted with here, minus the "doing something about it" positivity attached to it currently. MD9 is a perfect example of what can be done- my hat is off to him, no doubt.

The other side to the coin you display in that second quote is that the people of Salomon can feel bad all they want but it isn't accomplishing anything, just like we can be dicks all we want and it won't do shit. To ask us to convert that energy into positive, proactive solutions to the actual problem at hand you must ask the same of the other side. It's only fair.

While I fully understand the difficulties in circumventing the legal process in such a manner, I think the people at Salomon DO want to help and are creative and intelligent enough to figure something out- but we have yet to see anything helpful come of it yet so what does it matter, really?

So in closing, I am only holding Salomon to the same set of values we are holding ourselves to. Nothing more. The legal battle will no doubt decide itself over time, but we have a problem on our hands in the meantime and its not going to take care of itself. Salomon employees, if you're reading this- we need your help and if we don't get it, yes- we will continue to "be dicks about it" and spread our collective influence as far as we can. You guys hold all the cards, how you play them is up to you.

Ugh. My head hurts again, I fkn hate this thread.

[Core Shot]

You guys are just pounding sand.

I prefer to think oF it as POUNDING A SANDY VAGINA

[Todd Zander]

I'm going to bed. This shit makes my head hurt.

Tenses my jaw muscles, which leads to grinding my teeth. Followed shortly with punching a kitten.

As patches has said who AT salomon has given up a night out or a sick round of sushi delivered for lunch, for TC?

[Ocean]

Any payment like the one to Dalton is going to come from Salomon's insurance company. Even if Salomon is heavily pushing an early settlement for any number of reasons, the insurance company and its legal counsel is still likely going to resist (because the insurer has very little incentive to make a payment quickly, and has lots of incentive to delay payment).

Hmm, I have to admit it, you're making a good point there.

[buttahflake]

i first heard about TC's situation on TGR. that night was brutal. knowing how unforgiving the Presidential's are. i can not even imagine the pain, both physical and mental, that TC went through that day and night. having skied with him on a few epic Magic days, i know how strong he is physically. it is his mental strength that is most impressive. think about how fucked up you would feel; if it was you. i can not express strongly enough, how glad i am that he is Alive! he very easily could have been another sad statistic in the long and storied history of this range. he is an awesome skier and a wicked smart and fun guy to hang with. i can not wait to ride the Red Chair with him soon. let's get this done Salomon. make right for your royal fuck up!
keep on;keeping on D!

[horizon]

A small point that I haven't seen mentioned in this long thread.

Often, the reason large corporations HAVE to go through the whole legal process is not just the liability for one product failure in one claim, but that liability becoming precedent and multiplied by a potential factor of hundreds or thousands, due to future possible claims cropping up.

In this case, there was an extremely low number of Quest boots with touring pads in the market, and one complete failure with awful consequences. The situation can be ringfenced much better (new product, immediate recall etc). As high as the settlement number may be, it's still going to be paid a single time. Isn't this an incentive to cut short the legal process?

[mtnbiker/boarder]

I have read this entire Tr.....one thing i have gotten out of this TR is that the community here on TGR is truely like a family......and with any family , when a family member gets hurt or worse , the family sticks up for and backs up their fallen member....That with out a doubt has been happening since the accident....it is hard not to express your feelings for someone or their situation......I try to look at life in a positive manner as much as possible.....Dalton is an amazing person to have dealt with injury in the past and he will be tested for sure mentally and physically by this incident......BUT if you know Dalton well , then you know he is like a samurii worrier that will never quit.....I hope that Solomon does him right and thier legal counsol doesn't not drag things out Like TOAST2266 had mentioned. I also hope that the mags and maggetts here keep up their great support of our fallen friend......DALTON you will ski again my friend....postive vibes produce postive thinking

[masterofgreenbeans]

Dear Salomon,
I bought new bindings today and your product was not an option. Oh yeah I bought new skis too, nope not Salomon. Oh well good luck with your litigation.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative post, MD9. As a brokeass college student, I can't really support Dalton with any money, per se, or at all really, but I can put silly things on their website. Actually, what I put was pretty tame and reasonable, and I bought a Mavic rim this summer. Kinda had too. I also have Salomon boots and bindings which I like, and bought pre-Quest.

I know legal stuff takes time, but how big is Salmon USA, really? We're not exactly talking Pepsi Co here. They can start sending checks to his PT any time.

[DasBlunt]

I am doing work on their facebook page.

why not? 40,000 people will see it!

[neck beard]

http://www.salomonfreeski.com/se/pro...st-12.html#bas

Facebook comments accepted...

Good feedback being given. Damn near makes me want to open a FB account just to join in. There is room for plenty more.

[Vt-Freeheel]

From This

The week before


To This



Then



Let us not forget the Littleton NH. hospital deeming Daltons' injury "limb threatening" and calling for another "bird ride".

[Core Shot]

From This

To This



]

wow, look at that toe! you can see the tech fitting totally failed.

the knee ain't pretty either, but how could they release such a shit toe piece?

[neck beard]

Exactly what my eyes went round at as well.　Mouth gaped at the same time. Picture says it all. Unbelievable to see it for the first time.

Get better TC, with or without Salomon.

[bennymac]

did someone actually call this whole boot failure debacle an "accident"?

What happened on the snow was indeed an accident. What happened when this boot was tested prior to being released was not. The testing described on wildsnow shows this.

and did it actually take them 2 months to send out the recall? If so that is just despicable.

And I don't get the "lets just keep it positive" idea. The side that is carrying the pitchforks and torches has put forth, in my opinion, very valid reasons for getting a negative message out to consumers and the industry.

The "lets just keep it positive" side has only been able to counter with flowery talk of group hugs and good vibes for Dalton but I haven't seen any actual arguments against what the negative side is promoting (ie pressure on Amer, their insurance company/lawyers, the rest of the industry to not make the same errors in judgment)

I don't know Dalton and he doesn't know me. So, besides selling gear and sending some help his way, me having positive thoughts about 1080 skis and really popular boots serves him no good, serves me no good, and only serves to potentially promote a company that screwed up in a negligent fashion.

I've told everyone I know to stay away from these boots cause there are some issues with safety. That's all that needed to be said. Fuck positivity in this case. If we all just hug and not say anything we might live a little longer but one of us might be in Dalton's shoes down the road cause the industry didn't learn from this mistake.

[The SMP]

not at all cool by salomon... I'm broke as shit, but when my buddy expressed interest in shoguns/STHs this story and my opinion pointed him towards S3s/FKS, which he bought directly. I mentioned this incident to some other friends with 'real jobs' and pointed them towards moment and other indies. I think I should continue to do so until salomon steps up. Otherwise it's business as usual for salomon. It's nice to hear from MD9 about the salomon crew he interacts with, but they are not the ones who screwed the pooch. The message needs to find the people who did.

I, probably like most of you guys, talk/give advice to alot of non-mags about gear. For someone just getting into the sport or is generally naive about gear a story like this will *forever* turn them away from the salomon brand. I wish TC the best and really hope salomon gets their shit together and puts pressure on the lawyers/insurance to get this thing settled.

[garyfromterrace]

^^^ still my thoughts
Maybe I'm naive but I have a hard time believing there isn't someone at soli who has the authority to say we fucked up lets settle this compensate D for the situation our product put him in, quit spending money on lawyers, end the bad pr, move on and try to not release flawed produts in the future. I think when it's all said and done the $$$$ soli loses in lost sales and legal fees is gonna be a wash to what they end up settling for in the long run, but to suggest that soli needs to make this a long drawn out legal battle isn't true. IMO It's a choice they are making.
With that choice comes consequences will it save them $$$ in the long run
IDK
.......u have.

^^^^^^
I'm no corporate guru but Amer surely has a board of directors. And that board sits together once in a while. That board, should it decide too (through a vote or whatever), can end this thing. No one can convince me otherwise. The board hires the lawyers (through "the company"), the board hires the insurers (through "the company"). The board therefore can direct the insurers and the lawyers to settle. If they can't then they're powerless, gutless, weasels who shouldn't be in a position of power. There's no fucking way that anyone is going to make me believe that the CEO and the board of AMER can't just say "fuck it - shut up lawyer and settle or we'll fire you". "Go to hell insurance guy, settle or we'll get another insurer". This is costing AMER money, keep the boycott on, keep the pressure up. Until they make this right, fuck salomon. And way to go mags for helping out a fellow fanatic. It makes me like this place.

A final note. Wouldn't amer and salomon be held in a very high regard if they actually did say "screw protocol, let's just settle this". Why does everyone have to conform to a bureaucratic, confrontational, top-heavy legal system.

Another final note. To those who think this movement isn't doing anything didn't read the posts: a dealer is going to circulate a form letter to salomon (GOOD ON YOU MAN!); where it was said that salomon was not acknowledged by the crowd at credit time at film premiers; and where one of the solly pro athletes noted that Dalton was well known at the solly offices. Negative press is deserved when warranted.

[weasel1]

If they can't then they're powerless, gutless, weasels who shouldn't be in a position of power.

That's some weasel-ism right there...I resent that stereotype.

...a dealer is going to circulate a form letter to salomon (GOOD ON YOU MAN!)

To clarify...no longer a dealer, but I will be talking to dealers to get them to sign on.

[Moeghoul]

^^^^^^
I'm no corporate guru but Amer surely has a board of directors. And that board sits together once in a while. That board, should it decide too (through a vote or whatever), can end this thing. No one can convince me otherwise. The board hires the lawyers (through "the company"), the board hires the insurers (through "the company"). The board therefore can direct the insurers and the lawyers to settle. If they can't then they're powerless, gutless, weasels who shouldn't be in a position of power. There's no fucking way that anyone is going to make me believe that the CEO and the board of AMER can't just say "fuck it - shut up lawyer and settle or we'll fire you". "Go to hell insurance guy, settle or we'll get another insurer". This is costing AMER money, keep the boycott on, keep the pressure up. Until they make this right, fuck salomon. And way to go mags for helping out a fellow fanatic. It makes me like this place.

A final note. Wouldn't amer and salomon be held in a very high regard if they actually did say "screw protocol, let's just settle this". Why does everyone have to conform to a bureaucratic, confrontational, top-heavy legal system.

Another final note. To those who think this movement isn't doing anything didn't read the posts: a dealer is going to circulate a form letter to salomon (GOOD ON YOU MAN!); where it was said that salomon was not acknowledged by the crowd at credit time at film premiers; and where one of the solly pro athletes noted that Dalton was well known at the solly offices. Negative press is deserved when warranted.

When we (editorial "we") purchase insurance, we essentially sell our risk exposure to a third party. It's no longer we who decides how to settle or litigate, it's the insurance company. Otherwise, we self insure. Threatening to fire the insurance company is not a realistic option. It may even relieve the insurer of any duty to pay under the contract. In fact, if we have too many claims against us, the insurance company is likely to "fire" us or raise premiums substantially. Sound familiar? If we get into an auto accident, and we are at fault, it's the insurance companies that will make that determination, not us. We can't tell them to settle immediately. It's our duty to cooperate with our insurer. If this was a "strict liability" case, settlement may come sooner, but I don't think that standard applies here. I never did product liability cases, so I could be wrong. I'll end it here at the risk of kunting up an emotionally charged thread and noble cause by mags with polyasshattery........

[garyfromterrace]

When we (editorial "we") purchase insurance, we essentially sell our risk exposure to a third party. It's no longer we who decides how to settle or litigate, it's the insurance company. Otherwise, we self insure. Threatening to fire the insurance company is not a realistic option. It may even relieve the insurer of any duty to pay under the contract. In fact, if we have too many claims against us, the insurance company is likely to "fire" us or raise premiums substantially. Sound familiar? If we get into an auto accident, and we are at fault, it's the insurance companies that will make that determination, not us. We can't tell them to settle immediately. It's our duty to cooperate with our insurer. If this was a "strict liability" case, settlement may come sooner, but I don't think that standard applies here. I never did product liability cases, so I could be wrong. I'll end it here at the risk of kunting up an emotionally charged thread and noble cause by mags with polyasshattery........

Oh...., shit....,
never mind then,

[Spats]

Give it some time, getting pissed isnt going to help anyone out.

Actually, it already has.

Salomon left the defective inserts on the market for TWO MONTHS. The only reason they finally recalled them was because of people "getting pissed" and telling everyone they knew that the inserts were likely to maim or kill them.

"Getting pissed" has probably saved several more people from the same crippling injuries as Dalton.

And you can bet that if Salomon weren't feeling the heat from this boycott (in which I am participating), they would be working with the insurance company to drag this out as long as possible in order to force Dalton to take the smallest payout possible in return for being crippled.

Corporations are bound by their charter to pursue profit at the expense of everything else -- in other words, they are legally bound to be psychopaths. Shame and social pressure have no effect. The only effect you can have is to hurt their bottom line. And I, personally, will join by refusing to support them until they step up and start taking care of Dalton.

[Patches]

I'll end it here at the risk of kunting up an emotionally charged thread and noble cause by mags with polyasshattery........

Too late!

[neck beard]

Corporations are bound by their charter to pursue profit at the expense of everything else -- in other words, they are legally bound to be psychopaths. Shame and social pressure have no effect. The only effect you can have is to hurt their bottom line. And I, personally, will join by refusing to support them until they step up and start taking care of Dalton.

I see your point, but can recall corporations donating cash to disaster recovery efforts in the cause of brand polishing and investment in what they called "social equity". Of course it all comes down to improving their bottom line in the long run, but perhaps Salmonella in this case could do the same.

In situations like this, the outcome will always be some function of The Corporate Game, and always played in a way that is anticipated to benefit the Corp. Always, first and foremost: The Corporation. But some of plays can have spin-off effects where the unwitting victim of the disaster also benefits. In this case, Dalton.

I'd like to see a big cheesy photo of the Salmonella CEO handing Dalton a huge check, some cookies and a new puppy. Then we can ignore the smell and get on with buying Salomon products again and more importantly Dalton can pay for the treatment he needs and perhaps reconcile his personal loss with some just compensation.

Eitherway, no one should expect any outcome that is not a Corporate Play.

[DasBlunt]

This is the note posted to "Salomons freeski" facebook page in response to my boycott statement. With Salomon having 40,000 facebook friends, some of them see this!

"Hey Matthew,

The product you are eluding to, was the Quest Pro Pebax and Quest Pro, and low-tech compatible touring soles. These three products have been voluntarily recalled and more information regarding the recall on our website or via the CPSC.

We appreciate your concern and effort to help communicate this recall.

To address some of your points within the "Open Letter:"
- Salomon has voluntarily recalled the three products associated with the low-tech inserts.
- Resolving the outstanding claim "quickly and amicably" is easier said than done, as you are familiar with the US legal system. But I can say, the process has begun.

I hope you understand that you can always ask us questions and we will answer to the best of our ability.

Thanks,
Nick"

[DoWork]

I see your point, but can recall corporations donating cash to disaster recovery efforts in the cause of brand polishing and investment in what they called "social equity". Of course it all comes down to improving their bottom line in the long run, but perhaps Salmonella in this case could do the same.

In situations like this, the outcome will always be some function of The Corporate Game, and always played in a way that is anticipated to benefit the Corp. Always, first and foremost: The Corporation. But some of plays can have spin-off effects where the unwitting victim of the disaster also benefits. In this case, Dalton.

I'd like to see a big cheesy photo of the Salmonella CEO handing Dalton a huge check, some cookies and a new puppy. Then we can ignore the smell and get on with buying Salomon products again and more importantly Dalton can pay for the treatment he needs and perhaps reconcile his personal loss with some just compensation.

Eitherway, no one should expect any outcome that is not a Corporate Play.

Well played, sir.

I'm thinking "Salomonella Poisoning" with a big red ghostbusters-style "red X" across it for a die-cut sticker right now with proceeds going to Dalt. I bet those would pop up on every chairlift, helmet and pair of skis from New Hampshire to Hakuba. That should get gapers asking, and google would probably bring them right here so they could get schooled.

Honestly, every day that goes by without Salomon's investment in the "social equity" of this situation I care less and less how someone there feels about what we do and say. After all, we as a community are going WAY out of the way to help a friend in an extraordinary situation that forces well within people there's control were able to avoid. The important thing is that his now astronomical medical bills are spiraling out of control. Should he sell his truck and his wife's car to pay for your mistake until your insurance company pays? He's already liquidated all his gear and then some- should he start selling his furniture as well so that he can pay to ATTEMPT to regain use of his leg? I wonder what the average Salomon employee thinks about this, I really do.