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Thread: Salomon Quest Tech inserts failure thread

  1. #451
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    First off, +++ Vibes +++ to Dalton. I've been following this just a short while. I can tell you that while I, personally, haven't experienced anything like it (and from what you've said, doctors have never experienced the like either), I did deal with something similar with a family member - tremendous amount of time off work, loss of money, pain meds that don't work, depression, family problems etc. It sucked, and that's an understatement. She did recover though - and without sticking it to the man. At first blush, that may seem like it sucks, but it's kinda the way it is sometimes. Ultimately, I can tell you that nothing - and I mean nothing - is going to satisfy you completely. Regardless of what Salomon does or doesn't do. Get back out there, though. Keep kicking ass on PT. You've got friends. You've got supporters. You've got people behind you 100%.

    With regard to Salomon and Nick. You all know that these companies have people watching all the forums, right? You can't hold someone like a PR person responsible for what his company is asking him to post - nor can you hold him responsible for not being able to get anything done. You have to give him credit that he posted here at all, knowing the vitriol everyone feels towards Salomon. Further, dude even put his real name and number up (I called it to be sure). Seriously? That's balls. Give the GUY a break. Let the lawyers figure this stuff out - and realize that ultimately, he doesn't run the company. He doesn't make the decisions on this thing. While he may be able to lend a hand or report back what's said here, you think he'll want to do that in a semi-positive way when people tell him to f-off?

    What's the answer? Keep lifting up Dalton. Make sure he's supported in every way. Make sure the facts are given to Salomon and that any details they provide are given to Dalton. Wait. See. Pray it all works out for the best.

  2. #452
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    Thanks for the update Nick sounds like your legal team is working the norm angle to avoid paying to much to a damn good mag who your crappy product injured. par for the legal norm.
    I don't think any gear is 100% reliable thank jah dynafit, scarpa, garmont, bd and other bootmakers have gone to the not release shitty products that cant withstand normal skiing norm
    - one of the guys
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  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Unfortunately im betting that the likely retort from Salomon to Daltons lawyers will be that the product was being used in a manner in which it was not designed. Seems a typical defense. They'll claim he was a huge dude riding on "low tech" binders in less than optimal conditions.
    Shouldn't matter. Product liability covers events that the manufacturer should reasonably have anticipated. Dalton's usage was totally foreseeable (and a judge/jury would see it that way too, I think).
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  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Shouldn't matter. Product liability covers events that the manufacturer should reasonably have anticipated. Dalton's usage was totally foreseeable (and a judge/jury would see it that way too, I think).
    Shouldnt...but OJ shouldnt be free either...

    Salomon certainly has much more money to pay a legal team than Dalton unfortunately...they can drag this shit on for years and year (ive seen this happen) its the game....

    STILL FUCKING BLOWS....

  5. #455
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    Wow. Shit. I just got informed of this thread when skifishbum was visiting the past week since I've been busy most of the summer.
    That blows, Dalton. Best of luck, mang!

  6. #456
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by COUTCA View Post
    With regard to Salomon and Nick. You all know that these companies have people watching all the forums, right? You can't hold someone like a PR person responsible for what his company is asking him to post - nor can you hold him responsible for not being able to get anything done. You have to give him credit that he posted here at all, knowing the vitriol everyone feels towards Salomon. Further, dude even put his real name and number up (I called it to be sure). Seriously? That's balls. Give the GUY a break. Let the lawyers figure this stuff out - and realize that ultimately, he doesn't run the company. He doesn't make the decisions on this thing. While he may be able to lend a hand or report back what's said here, you think he'll want to do that in a semi-positive way when people tell him to f-off?
    We should give Salomon a break for a poor product, poor strategy on handling it and the poor PR it's generating for them? Live by the social media sword, die by the social media sword.

  7. #457
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    I don't expect anything more or less from salomon than what is happening ... this is just the game as it is played

    the lawyers will drag it around the block and likely come to a last ditch settlement

    can anyone quantify for me exactly how much bad PR face book is generating I don't do facebook

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    We should give Salomon a break for a poor product, poor strategy on handling it and the poor PR it's generating for them? Live by the social media sword, die by the social media sword.
    Of course, you misquoted that I said the GUY, not Salomon. The guy is doing his job. No disrespect, Hugh. The company is in for a ride...admitting it, and doing the recall is just the start of their ride. Time will only tell where that ride ends up, and how Dalton recovers will likely be a big part of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I don't expect anything more or less from salomon than what is happening ... this is just the game as it is played

    the lawyers will drag it around the block and likely come to a last ditch settlement
    Agreed.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I don't expect anything more or less from salomon than what is happening ... this is just the game as it is played

    the lawyers will drag it around the block and likely come to a last ditch settlement

    can anyone quantify for me exactly how much bad PR face book is generating I don't do facebook
    Unfortunately that "last ditch settlement" will probably come after years of it dragging through the courts...this is the game....drag it out so the injured party will take less than they should just to be "done with it"..

    Dalton...dont give them the satisfaction...stick it to these fuckers like its your job.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomon Freeski View Post
    Since there is an ongoing case with Dalton, we can't comment about the situation or outcome for legal reasons, but can give updates regarding the product.
    I hope your PR people are in touch with your lawyer people. Making things right by Dalton = good PR. Fuck him over = bad PR, & the entire maggot community basically shunning Salomon.

    We've won it. It's going to get better now. You can sort of tell these things.

  11. #461
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    well like it or not this IS "the game"

    I kind of doubt Salomon was approached without a lawyer and probably they wouldnt talk without their lawyer and SO starts the game

    I would think Dalton has a lawyer who is doing it on a contingency basis

    and somehow you write fuck,fuck,fuck for 19pages and expect it to change something ?

  12. #462
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by COUTCA View Post
    Of course, you misquoted that I said the GUY, not Salomon. The guy is doing his job. No disrespect, Hugh.
    Ah. That makes sense. We shouldn't hold the Salomon PR guy responsible for Salomon PR

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Ah. That makes sense. We shouldn't hold the Salomon PR guy responsible for Salomon PR
    HA. What you said was
    We should give Salomon a break for a poor product, poor strategy on handling it and the poor PR it's generating for them?
    Again there is a difference between people doing their job, and a company not stepping up. Salomon guy put himself out there to provide some information to the TGR community regarding the recall, which I think is the first step to Salomon owning up to the situation. Don't shoot the messenger.

    Do support Dalton.

  14. #464
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    Just read the new backcountry mag gear review.

    Interesting sidebar about the tech inserts failure that mentioned 2 injuries, one of them "serious"

    they glossed right over the pain, anguish, multiple surgeries, near death, and possible loss of ski career and life.

    Salomon sucks.
    step up to the plate and make it right, sally.

    I used to worship your gear. Now I view you with contempt.
    Kill all the telemarkers
    But they’ll put us in jail if we kill all the telemarkers
    Telemarketers! Kill the telemarketers!
    Oh we can do that. We don’t even need a reason

  15. #465
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    To be fair to BC mag, the pertinent excerpts read:

    "The best laid plans sometimes end in failure. [...] Translated [referring to a quoted press release]: There's a chance that the boot's tech fitting could fail, causing a spectacular wreck. There were at least two documented failures of the toe fittings in the field last winter, one of which resulted in severe injuries."

    Also, the title is: "Best Foot Forward"
    With a subtitle of "Salomon Stumbles on BC Quest"

  16. #466
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    "The best laid plans sometimes end in failure."
    seems it was a shitty plan from start to finish - as evidenced by the results.

    I'm sure COUTCA will rush in to defend everyone doing their job badly.

  17. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    seems it was a shitty plan from start to finish - as evidenced by the results.

    I'm sure COUTCA will rush in to defend everyone doing their job badly.
    Hugh i have to disagree with you, if only on semantics. Their plan was spot on, implementation was the trainwreck. I feel like i was one of many who were psyched for what the Quest could have been.

    But you are right in that the PR peeps fail to grasp that most people in this thread are focused solely on Dalton. Any product update belongs somewhere else, like the thread with Rick Armstrong waxing poetic on the boots capabilities.

    What i don't grasp is this; everyone and their brother realizes that for an AT boot to sell well it needs to be dynafit/low tech compatible. After they realized their fittings were fuct, why would you recall them and then not work your ass off to come up with an extra burl replacement asap? Honestly, how hard can it be if you just eat the cost and buy the OG fittings from Dynafit? So now they have a product out to market missing a key component and with tons of moral baggage. Not exactly the recipe for a successful launch.

  18. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Salomon certainly has much more money to pay a legal team than Dalton unfortunately...they can drag this shit on for years and years
    And they probably will. And so will we.

    Fuck them. It is as clear to any reasonable person that they sold a boot that was incapable of remaining in the most popular touring binding out there, a binding that they were trying to profit from.

    And they whored it like a wonder slut supreme on here. Touring boot my ass!

    Their name is dirt unless they stand up and accept their wrong.

    Cowards. Untrustworthy cowards. Not what you wont on your team when it counts. Like in the backcountry (or any committed moment on snow.)
    Life is not lift served.

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeatownSlackey View Post

    What i don't grasp is this; everyone and their brother realizes that for an AT boot to sell well it needs to be dynafit/low tech compatible. After they realized their fittings were fuct, why would you recall them and then not work your ass off to come up with an extra burl replacement asap? Honestly, how hard can it be if you just eat the cost and buy the OG fittings from Dynafit? So now they have a product out to market missing a key component and with tons of moral baggage. Not exactly the recipe for a successful launch.
    key on the part of the salomon rep's answer " no existing norm " will likely be a good part of their defence in the case and realize that from their perspective it would be a good defence

    SO Soly can't claim there was no standard so they were not liable and then go on to produce a boot that would work but doesnt conform to a non exitsting standard ... BUT what is actualy a "dynafit standard"

    AND no standard was the major reason why this whole shitty accident took place hopefully a tech standard WILL come of this ,not saying this absolves them of liability ... just arm chair quarterbacking the game

    they still sell tons of stuff to people who don't know what a TGR is so they can let this one sit on the back burner for awhile
    Last edited by XXX-er; 08-21-2010 at 10:38 AM.

  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeatownSlackey View Post
    After they realized their fittings were fuct, why would you recall them and then not work your ass off to come up with an extra burl replacement asap? Honestly, how hard can it be if you just eat the cost and buy the OG fittings from Dynafit?
    I think Salomon has tried this but ran into problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomon Freeski View Post
    Since the accident, we have been doing a great deal of investigating and tests to try new alternative solutions and new pad designs. Thus far, with no existing norm, we are not able to provide a 100% reliable solution for our boots/soles for low-tech style bindings.
    To me this reads they either tried to buy the fittings but Dynafit wouldn't sell them for whatever reason or they did get the fittings but the Salomon pads just can't be redesigned around them, maybe it makes them too thick for DIN standard or something. No Dynafit fittings, no go.

    My question is if a boot maker buys the fittings from Dynafit and puts them in their boot does Dynafit have a say to what standards the boot needs to be to hold the fittings? Does selling the fittings absolve Dynafit of responsibility?

  21. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomon Freeski View Post
    Hey guys,

    So we have a couple of updates regarding the Salomon Quest Pro Bebax, Quest Pro and Quest touring pads. Since there is an ongoing case with Dalton, we can't comment about the situation or outcome for legal reasons, but can give updates regarding the product.

    Since the accident, we have been doing a great deal of investigating and tests to try new alternative solutions and new pad designs. Thus far, with no existing norm, we are not able to provide a 100% reliable solution for our boots/soles for low-tech style bindings. At this point, we will not be releasing any low-tech touring boots/soles this fall. The rest of the Quest boots, which passed norms, will still be available. If you have any questions, feel free to give me a call, Nick at 801-624-7581 for any additional questions.

    Thanks for all of your patience guys,
    Nick
    Why THE FUCK would we care about "updates regarding the product??" How can you be so obtuse as to write this?
    Better that you just don't post here at all Nick, if that's all you've got for us. More stupidity from Salomon...

    If Salomon doesn't take care of TC for the rest of his life, the company will be stuck selling rental/intermediate gear and a lot less high-end gear, because we will be spreading the word about what a shitty, negligent company Salomon is to the entire TGR/powmag demographic.
    I know I for one will do my part in this regard.

    --ND, a 30 year Salomon customer.

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stikki View Post

    My question is if a boot maker buys the fittings from Dynafit and puts them in their boot does Dynafit have a say to what standards the boot needs to be to hold the fittings? Does selling the fittings absolve Dynafit of responsibility?
    Dynafit held the patent so you had to buy the fittings and pay license to dynafit which has expired so they no longer have ANY control over what happens to the lowtech design

    some bootmakers buy the fittings from dynafit which would be a good thing to advertise in marketing of a boot,Dynafit could just refuse to sell fittings to a boot maker

    anyone can make fittings or bindings we have seen salomon make fittings poorly and g3 bindings ...maybe OK?


    how much is this publicity really going to affect salomon ... what is the market penetration of this campaign or do we just have a relatively few people here saying fuck salomon ?

  23. #473
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    Guys, out of all of this... Just remember that Dalt is incurring pretty heavy costs to recover. He does PT 3x a week and it costs him $50 each time... $600/mo just in PT copays is a ton and that doesn't even begin to factor in doctor/specialist visits, X-rays, etc, etc, etc... So while the wheels of legality turn ever so slowly, our boy is being drained as he fights to make his triumphant return. Not cool.

    The T-shirt fundraiser is no more, but you can still make a donation to him via his paypal- even if it's a small one, I see him regularly enough to know the impact it has on him that people are out there and although they might have never met him, are still willing to lend a helping hand. I know it makes me feel good when I see it happening! Mad props to everyone who has given something- may your trails be buried in fresh pow, your bases remain unscathed and your favorite line be untouched when you get to it.

    Paypal addy: redline3108@yahoo.com


    And on a positive note, Magic's new heavy equipment repairman has a sitski we're going to be revamping a few worn out parts on and getting ready for heavyweight service... Dalt, even if you can't stand up for it, you're going to make turns this year if I have anything to say about it!!!
    "If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is a compromise." -Robert Fritz

    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    not enough nun fisters in that community

  24. #474
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by SeatownSlackey View Post
    Hugh i have to disagree with you, if only on semantics. Their plan was spot on, implementation was the trainwreck. I feel like i was one of many who were psyched for what the Quest could have been.
    a plan that doesn't have time for good testing & QA = a shitty plan that'll hurt people

  25. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    AND no standard was the major reason why this whole shitty accident took place hopefully a tech standard WILL come of this
    The "lack of a standard" had nothing to do with this failure. The entire fitting failed because it was a flimsy POS.

    Its not like there are 20 different tech bindings. There is one binding with 99%+ of the market, the dynafit. All Sally had to do was test their boot with this one binding, which they clearly did not do.

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