At least 3 dead, 15 injured after B.C. avalanche

[backcountryislife]

BCIL I been in boating for longer than I will mention , I never boated more than IV ,know people who do or did (they didn't die they quit ) and while people die in boating accidents every year l don't think ever seen quite the same wide spread attitude of acceptance as in sledding


I think ignorance is a thing of the past ,now they accept the danger and they just don't care


according to the Shock Doctrine NOW is the best time to change things ,joe sledder could have fucked it up for himself which is his own problem cuz I don't own one ...the question is how will it affect the rest of us BC users of crown land in BC ?

I agree that NOW IS the time to try to change the way people think about the BC, that's why I talk to people about this kind of thing. I also feel that if more skiers were open minded about sledders being equal users in the BC & they exchanged info & ideas more freely, we would ALL be much better off in the future.
There's a freeheeler that rides where I do and is there nearly as much as I am, this guy & I talk nearly every day about the conditions. I help him find out where it's sketchy & where there's good snow. If others realized that sledders see 100 times the amount of terrain they will on an average day they might be more interested in finding out what they have to share & in talking to the other side you may also find out that they're people, not stupid rednecks. Hell, they MIGHT even give you a yank to the top & save you an hour of touring so you can get another lap!


As for the boating side, I personally feel that it's the EXACT same thing. One of my good friends died again last year (miss you DIRK!!!) and though it was a sad day & we hopefully learn from what happened, we are still boating the same run and have no plans to stop. I've been boating for quite a while & riding BC for MUCH longer, I've lost a number of friends & Acquaintances to class V & V+ & have never (and hope it stays this way) lost a friend on the snow. I think the atmosphere is different, but overall the level of education is likely lower in the river than it is with the average sledder.

Also in the river there is a device that costs less than $30 that could have saved another friend of mine's life, but I only know a few people that carry them, on the other hand I don't know anyone who sleds without a beacon & most are buying or saving for avy packs now.

[powslut]

The quotes by the snowmobiler in the Globe and Mail article are nothing short of ridiculous.

Rob Blair, a Calgary snowmobiler who has spent decades riding into the outer reaches of British Columbia's powder, compared what he does to skiers "on Warren Miller films. It's basically the same thing, except we're going up," he said.

Same thing except for the fact that we're not riding 600lb machines with 300+ horsepower.

Many snowmobilers are worried that the public will see the weekend's tragedy as evidence of gasoline-mad rednecks recklessly playing on the mountain. Anyone - snowmobilers, skiers or snowshoers - encounters avalanche risks in the backcountry, they say. And regulating only snowmobilers is an unfair attack on those who don't possess the athleticism to ski their way into danger.

It is evidence of gasoline mad rednecks playing recklessly. Has it occurred to anyone that if you don't possess the athleticism or know how to be in the backcountry maybe you shouldn't be in an unguided situation in the first place?

Snowmobilers pointed out that heli-skiers were also on the mountains this weekend.

Of course they were, but there wasn't a heli skiing festival where all of the participants were trying to ski down the sketchiest slopes they could find. That coupled with the fact that the spectators were standing at the bottom of a massive avalanche path, and none of the avalanche savvy people made them move. No backcountry skiers died this weekend, and they were all out in the same sketchy snow conditions. It comes down to people making responsible decisions given the parameters defined by the snowpack. Very few responsible decisions were made at the Big Iron Shootout and it is nothing short of a miracle that more people didn't die.

[Eldo]

More interesting comments in another G&M story:

Avalanche victims remembered amid questions about event
Nathan VanderKlippe and Josh Wingrove
Revelstoke, B.C. and Edmonton — Globe and Mail Update

It was supposed to be one of the last runs of the day, a shot up the vaunted Turbo Bowl on a high-powered snowmobile by one of the more experienced riders among Nathan Knox's friends.

So, Mr. Knox, 32, joined his girlfriend and seven others from their Calgary-area group to watch their friend, Shay Snortland, attempt the feat on Boulder Mountain in the idyllic ranges of Revelstoke, B.C. Mr. Snortland made it up the hill, but wouldn't make it down alive.

"We all found a good place to watch, and Shay decided he was going to go up, and he got stuck at the top. Our whole group, the other nine of us, were at the bottom watching him waiting for him to come down. And he never came down. Instead, an avalanche did," Mr. Knox told The Globe and Mail Monday.

Well back of the hill stood Mr. Knox and Kurtis Reynolds, a father of two who worked for Mr. Snortland's oil field company. They stared as the avalanche gained steam, rolling towards them and dozens of people attending the event Saturday, known as the Big Iron Shootout.

"Ever been on an airplane when you're flying into a wall of a cloud? It's just a huge wall, looks like a big fluffy cloud. but it ain't soft and fluffy. There's trees, and snowmobiles and people. You're just in a big blender," Mr. Knox said. The avalanche struck them all. Mr. Knox was rolled under, but would soon find himself under only half a foot of snow, able to wriggle free. His girlfriend was "lucky," he says -thrown free and landing atop the snow. Mr. Reynolds wasn't as fortunate, being swept by the rolling snow and dying.

"I'm lucky to be talking to you here today," Mr. Knox said.

Rushing to the scene, veteran snowmobiler Mark Shaede feared the worst.

"It was by far the biggest [avalanche] I've seen on that particular face, if not anywhere on that whole mountain," recounted the owner of Revelstoke Snowmobile Tours Ltd. "It was a once-in-20-years slide, I'm sure."

Both men were married with children, according to interviews and local media reports. Mr. Snortland is survived by his wife Janine, daughter Miya, 6, and daughter Ilea, 4, his sister-in-law told The Globe. Mr. Reynolds also had a wife and two children in tiny Strathmore, Alta., east of Calgary. His wife declined comment Monday, but told the Calgary Sun her husband was just a spectator and novice snowmobiler.

“It was his second time ever on a sled. They just wanted to go watch," she said. "He said, ‘honey, we know, we’ll be careful.'"

Mr. Snortland was a "man's man," Mr. Knox said.

"He would have been the guy, if the shoe would have been on the other foot, he would have been the guy running around, helping get people out. He would have froze himself giving people his clothes and gloves, instead of him wearing them. He was just a very, a really, really - just a good guy."

He said he hadn't spoken with Ms. Snortland or Ms. Reynolds.

"I just can't imagine what they're going through."

A few dozen people were struck by the avalanche. RCMP said in Revelstoke Sunday night that everybody involved is believed to be accounted for, and that the death toll will stay at two, with 30 others injured.

Corporal Dan Moskaluk said police had canvassed hotels, hunted for abandoned vehicles, and had received no reports of anybody missing.

"We're in a far different situation than we were just over 24 hours ago with a report of over 200 people being possibly affected by this slide," he told reporters.

"We're very fortunate ... though we do have two fatalities as a result of this incident."

The Big Iron Shootout is a loosely organized, non-sanctioned annual event. Its organizer is known through the snowmobile community as "Ozone Dave," or Calgary sunglasses store owner David Clark. Mr. Clark's whereabouts where unknown Monday. The phone at his store went unanswered, another line had been disconnected, and the Calgary Herald reported he'd checked out of his Revelstoke hotel.

"I think you're going to find a lot of people who want to know [where he is]," Revelstoke Councillor Steve Bender said. "The last I'd heard, he'd left town."

On Friday, the Canadian Avalanche Centre issued a bulletin warning that avalanche danger was "high" - the second-strongest warning on the centre's five-point danger scale.

"Natural and human-triggered avalanches are likely. Travel in avalanche terrain is not recommended," the bulletin read.

Witnesses said the avalanche was triggered as three thrill-seeking snowmobilers raced each other up a steep slope - a stunt known as high-marking - to see who could go the highest before being forced to turn around.

Yesterday, four search-and-rescue teams, five avalanche dog teams and a slew of other volunteers combed the three-kilometre-long site filled with mangled snowmobiles. Mr. Knox's sled was among them at the site, which he called the "graveyard."

Conditions in the Revelstoke area Saturday were a near-perfect recipe for disaster, avalanche experts say.

Karl Klassen, the public avalanche bulletin manager for the CAC, said trouble began brewing in January, when infrequent dustings dumped layer upon layer of weak snow on Boulder and environs.

A storm blew in Wednesday and reached its peak Friday, with up to 100 centimetres of fresh powder draped over the unstable snow pack beneath.

"Everybody's concerns were elevated," Mr. Klassen said.

"Then, to be quite blunt, all heck broke loose."

All across the region on Friday smaller avalanches swept down mountains - Mr. Klassen stopped counting at 80 where he was working, 50 kilometres south of Boulder - as the snow continued to fall.

Then, on Saturday morning, the weather took the worst possible turn: It cleared up.

The weather was sunny and warm, with enough virgin powder to entice even cautious back-country enthusiasts.

"When you have a beautiful, sunny day after a big storm and it's been a dry winter, lots of people want to get out there and enjoy the new snow," Mr. Klassen said.

Hundreds of extreme snowmobilers were already in Revelstoke, gearing up for the event. Others who come to Revelstoke for the snow, however, said they stayed off the slopes this weekend because conditions were too dangerous.

"It's crazy. I wouldn't go out," said Riley Chapple, who came to Revelstoke to ski all winter.

"There's tonnes of hoarfrost and sun-affected layers and then there's 80 centimetres of snow on top of it," he said, describing what he calls ideal avalanche conditions.

In an interview with a local newspaper, Mr. Snortland's widow is questioning why the event wasn't called off.

"If you go out sledding on your own, you're taking that risk. When you have a planned event they should be taking charge. . . . Obviously, that's not the case," she said. "I think something needs to change."

Though Turbo has produced smaller slides in the past, snowmobilers have been riding it for many years without incident.

Mr. Knox said, however, that he wasn't told about the conditions, but it wouldn't have stopped any of the riders.

"It's hard to prevent things like that because you're in the extreme. You're on the sides of mountains. You're dealing with the force of God. There's nothing you can do," he said. "What happened was just a freak accident, tragedy, just something that you'd wish upon nobody."

[powslut]

"It's hard to prevent things like that because you're in the extreme. You're on the sides of mountains. You're dealing with the force of God. There's nothing you can do," he said. "What happened was just a freak accident, tragedy, just something that you'd wish upon nobody."

This sentence sums up why 90% of snowmobilers have the wrong attitude. This accident was entirely preventable, there was a lot they could have done including not highmarking that slope. It was not a freak accident.

[backcountryislife]

I'd like to see it as "a freak accident" as Knox did, but I think most intelligent people can see past that & realize that it was less than freak, and closer to likely that something was going to happen that day.

I hate to admit it, but from the sounds of the interviews that I've heard today I think the culture up there just hasn't evolved in the same way things have around here. Some of the people that I've heard recently have been woefully uninformed.

[LeeLau]

I was pleasantly surprised to see an organized probe line 15 minutes post-incident; IMO sledders are much more prepared then they have been in the past. My impression is that it's incorrect to paint all sledders with the same brush (whether that brush is as drunken rednecks or whatever). In any community there will be outliers who are indifferent to risk and not overall concerned about safe practises. IMO BIS happened to concentrate that group of outliers in one spot.

[XXX-er]

I agree that NOW IS the time to try to change the way people think about the BC, that's why I talk to people about this kind of thing.

anybody I know who BC skis is aware ,sledders seem to be aware and then choose to ignore ,I would help a sledder if he was stuck on the side of the road or out of gas but if he doesn't care where he sleds I'm not going to worry about it


actualy if you read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein and believe her theory it wasnt a good thing ... the greatly simplifyed idea is that the best time to change a bunch of shit is in the after math of a disaster when you got a clean slate & everything is all fucked up

We got a major incident with streaming vid and news on the hr which would be a great time to do something about "the carnage in the mtns"

HOW the BC government could use this incident to make sweeping changes that could come about in light of this incident and how they will affect me as a BC user in BC on crown lands even tho I don't sled is what I am concerned about

[BFD]

In fairness to this poster he claimed to be the organizer in 2009 but maybe was not involved in 2010. Interesting the safety measures they say were in affect.
Re: Big iron shootout 2009

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by GSR
Saw some cool photos on sledshot.com too! What a weekend!! Big shout out to all the organizers lori, I heard you were the event! haha, nice work! we all appreciated it!
I am pretty sure the highlight of the weekend was Lori highmarking the guys with my toboggan! Not sure why the photographers and the helicopter missed me?
Hmmm....Maybe we should hook the sleigh behind the Micku's or some of the turbos and see if it adds a little challenge to the chutes. The riders were making it look far too easy.

======================
I pasted in a post from SW...the other forum. Hope ya'll don't mind.
----------------------------
Whether the RSC or the SRS chose to support the BISO or not it was pretty clear that it was coming. Sledding didn't need any more negative stories, so a few of us stepped up to the plate with the hopes to minimize the chances of a wreck. It was a bit of an uphill battle, but following almost an entire week of meetings and phone calls with rescue authorities, heli companies, forestry, RCMP, and local service companies we met the requirements to hold a 'special event'.
We did the best we could with gathering donations at the trail head to cover the safety costs of the day: insurance, medical & rescue gear, lathe, flagging, and admin stuff.

Thanks to Neil McLaren, Shane Render, Mark Shaede, and three others (sorry, I didn't catch your names )for their donations of $100 each. Thanks to Ozone for adding $200 to the pot as well.
A big thanks to the BDSO for paying for the two on hill medics that we arranged for the day. (Whew...that really took the pressure off us!)

Once costs were covered we donated $200 to the Golden Search and Rescue to thank them for lending us rescue gear. Thanks to Kyle Hale, GADSAR leader, for his willingness to assist our efforts.


Also, a $400 donation was offered to the Revelstoke CSPS (Canadian Ski Patrol) for the rescue toboggan, rescue gear and radios that we borrowed. On the suggestion from Ken Gibson of the CSPS, this donation was redirected to the Canadian Avalanche Center (CAC).

Jennifer George accepted our donation on behalf of the Canadian Avalanche Centre.

Important note learned from this weekend: Try to find cute girls to collect donations.
The potential was there to raise substantially more for non-profit backcountry organizations such as these. Oh well, maybe another time. Live and learn.

I think that we accomplished what we set out to do.

The garbage was minimal, the medics were only needed for one dislocated shoulder, and the cut blocks were pretty well respected on Saturday.

Thanks again to Randy Swenson, Dusty Dancer, Stephen Janisch, Miles Oystryk, Steve Olson, Paul Gibbs, Shawn Hamilton, and Shane Head for your help and support. Thanks too, to the guys that helped tear down and store the flagging this weekend. It really was a group effort, Lori & Randy Zacaruk
__________________
Invest in Avalanche Training this Season
www.zacstracs.com

[eirikainersharp]

I find this incident fairly maddening. Yes, it's terrible that people died and it's amazing that it wasn't worse.

I think finger pointing is appropriate, actually. the organizers should have stepped up and called it off, or at the very least, had a roped off area that was a safe zone where spectators had to stay.

I'm with ya, a little finger pointing (done fairly, and with the goal to learn from this tragedy rather than find a skape goat) is most definitely appropriate. Especially since all of us who enjoy recreating in BC's backcountry might suffer the consequences of this.

That being said I'm not sure that the blame can be laid entirely at the feet of the very elusive organizer "OZONE Dave" as the media seems to trying to do. This was obviously not a freak accident. Everybody out there had access to a wealth of information advising them this weekend was not the weekend to be pushing it. Every person out there choose, either not to look for that info or to ignore it.

[gwat]

Too bad the widow is playing the blame game. Going to far as to say the municipality should have stepped in? WTF??? She is as ignorant as the rest of them. Sure, they had gear, got a probe line going and saved many lives, but the simple fact remains that they were all unnecessarily exposed to the risk in the first place The number one rule of avalanches is reduced exposure = reduced risk. Sure, some of those 'redneck yahoos' probably are well aware of the risks and would be proud to die doing what they loved, but they must be a very very small minority. Trying to generalize the sledding population can't be done. That 12 year old with stitches on his face and fearing for his life while buried under the snow probably was not aware of the risk. Sounds like we need increased education, which has been the trend over the past few years (the CAA does and awesome job), so at some point hopefully the message will sink in to the general population.

[Merlyn]

More fuel for the fire:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ig...687/story.html

Ignoring risk is a sledder's personal choice: B.C. Snowmobile Federation


The executive director of the B.C. Snowmobile Federation said Monday it is a snowmobiler's personal right to ignore avalanche warnings and that education — not increased government regulation — is the best way to stop such risky activity.

"Right now it's personal choice," Les Austin said in an interview from Revelstoke. "I don't believe there needs to be greater regulation. We need greater education and stuff like that so people can make better-informed decisions. That doesn't happen overnight."

Austin is meeting later Monday with B.C. Solicitor General Kash Heed to discuss the avalanche Saturday that killed two Alberta snowmobilers and injured dozens more at a time when the Canadian Avalanche Centre had warned of high avalanche risk.

"Every one of them made that personal choice," Austin said. "These are all personal decisions people made to go to something like that. The warnings were definitely up.

"If I go riding with my friends I make sure they've all got the [avalanche rescue] equipment and know how to use it. It's my decision if I climb the hill or do whatever. It's their personal decision to do the same."

And what of the time, cost and personal risk associated with rescue efforts for snowmobilers who get into trouble after wilfully ignoring avalanche warnings?

"You're right, we appreciate all the rescue efforts because without all those people this thing could have been worse than it was," he said.

The Canadian Avalanche Centre published a report in 2009 entitled The Year of Sledding Dangerously, in which operations manager John Kelly expressed his extreme frustration with a segment of the snowmobiling community that ignores avalanche warnings.

He concluded: "We do feel an appetite for action from our connections within government and from the public at large.

"So we can say one thing for certain — change will come in some form. I think we know enough about the prevailing societal mood to know that if change does not come through stakeholder and community action, it will be imposed by the public interest."

Austin said his federation is a member of the Canadian Avalanche Centre and has worked hard to educate B.C.'s 130,000 snowmobilers about avalanche hazards.

"We're doing everything we can possibly do to provide as much educational outreach material for people," he said. "We're stepping it up as much as we possibly can."

Austin noted that more sledders are taking avalanche training and have the rescue gear, although a certain percentage still ignore the warnings.

[powder11]

I think finger pointing is appropriate, actually. the organizers should have stepped up and called it off, or at the very least, had a roped off area that was a safe zone where spectators had to stay.

I agree with the finger pointing bit, but be sure to point it at pretty much everyone up there. Unless you hired a back country guide, the second you fire up the sled and head into the mountains, you are responsible for your own safety. Plain and simple.

I think the sledski community gets it because they're skiers 1st and have principles of safety ingrained in the back country touring culture, where as the slednecks just see it as a bunch of gear you should carry along to make things safer, but don't necessarily have the knowledge of how to avoid the bad scene in the 1st place.

It is too easy to offer up condolences and +++Vibes+++ and I think the sledneck community at large needs a good dose of tough love to smarten the fuck up before they ruin it for the good folks who are playing safe.

[XXX-er]

what exactly is the snow mobile federation going to do to regulate a sport that doesnt want to be regulated ?

when I lived in prince george the snowmobile club used to put a fall flyer in the weekly newspaper

I remember one note from the club pres which I kid you not talked about sitting shutdown 4 abreast on the pass lake road like you owned it being dangerous ,clean up yer beer cans/cigy packs/garbage,be more responsible ect

basicly he was giving the snowmobile community shit in public thru the weekly newspaper ... a pretty bad image presented to the public I thot

[sparkletarte.]

I agree, everyone needs to take personal responsibility- every time we walk out the door. However, I'm going to go with the idea that there were possibly some people there who either didn't know about or really understand the avy danger or who trusted in the organizers of the event to provide a safe event. I'm sure we all go to restaurants, for example, where we trust the the business owner is providing food in a safe manner. We don't know every single thing about food borne diseases but we trust that they are going to make sure we are covered for that.

I'm giving some of them an ignorance card and saying, yeah, you need to learn about this, you're off the hook a bit. Others can't claim that for sure.

that this was an organized event makes it worse to me, and that the person who appears to be the organizer is mia isn't so great- buddy has to step up, however I'm sure he's pretty traumatized. I was happy to read in an earlier post (bfd's) that at least the previous year they had a bunch of safety in place. I did assume that wasn't the case and that wasn't right.

it's weird some of the comments that make it sound like a freak thing. Because so few people were killed, will it be chalked up to 'freak, not that many people were hurt, we escaped, the chance of us getting taken down is small, avys aren't that big of a deal, look how many of us cheated death'? The real freak part is that only a couple people died.

[rideit]

Reading the thread over on Snowest is interesting...it's like they are all ignoring the 500 pound gorilla in the room. It's kind of weird.

[powder11]

Reading the thread over on Snowest is interesting...it's like they are all ignoring the 500 pound gorilla in the room. It's kind of weird.

jesus, did you see what god just did to us, man??

[rideit]

God must be a Heurist!

[srsosbso]

At risk of stating the obvious...

I think it's highly unlikely that, in high hazard conditions, you'd get a couple of hundred backcountry skiers to stand at the bottom of an obvious avalanche path while ten guys, having not even looked at the snowpack (never mind ski cut it), jump into the start zone simultaneously. So I think there is a different attitude/mentality here, as typified in the "nothing we could do" and "freak accident' sort of comments.

Having said that, I saw one guy ski Roberts solo (behind us) on Saturday, and saw two snowboarders bootpacking out of Roberts ahead of us, not a stitch of avy gear between them. So its not like snowmobilers have a monopoly on stupid.

[skiingnow]

jesus, did you see what god just did to us, man??

[TeCeBe]

I think alot of you before posting again need to:

1. spend some time in small town BC
2. spend some time observing the natural behaviours of the Rig Pig Alberta Sledder type
3. better understand these types of events and how they are "organized"

Without this understanding you are talking out your ass.

This is not an organized event. There are no ropes. No rules. No boundaries. You show up and run what you brung. It is a shootout in more way then one. Your responsible for yourself and to your party.

This is the classic "redneck" get together and this is what happens when it goes bad. Sad...but true.

[Benny Profane]

"It's hard to prevent things like that because you're in the extreme. You're on the sides of mountains. You're dealing with the force of God. There's nothing you can do," he said. "What happened was just a freak accident, tragedy, just something that you'd wish upon nobody."

You know, I was thinking today how this was Mountain Dew's and the X Games's fault.

[Benny Profane]

blaming the injured and dead isn't going to help prevent an accident like this again.

Yes it will, you piece of shit. Who are you gonna blame? God, like the moron in the article above? It's quite obvious all were at fault, to a degree. Best studied from that angle and action taken. But, no, they'll be back, swinging their dicks, and I hope you're in the lead. Asshole.

[sparkletarte.]

ha, I live in small town BC. I see lots of big rig sledders come through here from BC, Alberta, and Washington and leave from just up the street from my house. There's a poster with competitors, a date, and business names on it, and there were 200 people gathered there- that's organized, whether you (and they) want to admit to that or not.

An earlier post talks about how last year they had safety, etc. This was not some random, spontaneous gathering.

[backcountryislife]

I think the sledski community gets it because they're skiers 1st and have principles of safety ingrained in the back country touring culture, where as the slednecks just see it as a bunch of gear you should carry along to make things safer, but don't necessarily have the knowledge of how to avoid the bad scene in the 1st place.

yet another moron generalizing. God this gets old.

Tell you guys what, the next time there's a thread about a guy or two that die in the bc on skis or a board, I'm gonna talk to all my sledder buddies & tell them to come on here & talk about how ignorant the stoner skier culture is.
We'll talk about how ALL the skiers are too dumb to pay attention to signs before they leave the resort & kill themselves, and how ALL skiers are too stupid to buy all the gear that could save their lives.

I taught a refresher rescue class this year, had over 60 people sign up (sledders) everyone that came had been to at least one organized avy class before, and quite a few had a level 1 or better. NONE of these guys except myself & 2 of my buddies that was along were skiers at all. You can make these idiotic stereotypes over & over but the funny thing is, those of us on sleds these days (that are educated) are passing our skiing counterparts with the foresight to wear avy packs (the ONLY thing aside from your brain that may actually save your life before your friends have a chance to get to you), the fact that we are capable of evaluating an enormous amount of terrain very quickly & mitigating a slope with ease compared to being on skis.

Both groups have TONS of morons in their midst, instead of yapping about how stupid the other group is, how bout work on teaching the next ignorant person you see (on skis or sled) a few basics & the importance of education & why it's not just their life that they're risking.

[skifishbum]

vibes to those deceased injured fam and frends rescuers etc
200 or whatever # of fill in the blank with whatever standing sitting watching riding just being in a runout zone of a known avalanche zone on anything less than a green light low danger =
however many whatevers who are not getting all the message.
Maybe the message needs loud big red font. It must not be printed on any safety gear these [obnoxious2 stroke smoke cough] "experts" are buying.