Econ Mags, Math Advice?

[mdblows]

I'm a sophomore economics major at CU looking for advice on the usefulness of calculus. I took Calc 1 last semester, did alright and got a B-. I'm enrolled in Calc 2 this semester, but sit in class and don't understand the material, always behind, etc. I know it's naive to think that I have my future figured out, but I think that I would like to go graduate school although not in pure economics as it seems to be too quantitative from what I have picked up talking to professors, students, my advisor. If I wanted to go into a related field for grad school, environmental economics, public policy, economic ethics, or something along those lines, how negatively would I be affected having taken only a semester's worth of calculus? Outside of math I'm doing great, 3.6 GPA in econ and 3.5 overall. Sweet blog, I know

[StuntCok]

International political economy or simply political economy is much like old school Adam Smith type economics and doesn't really need too much math. A bit of calc would be more than enough for grad school in in those subjects. I have a Masters in Financial Economics (all math) and a Masters in Political Economy (no math) and the beginings of a PhD in Econs so I probably am the leading authority on where the math is and where it isn't within economics.

[BmillsSkier]

I made a great career in a derivatives-related industry with a finance degree and only limited knowlege of calculus. Well, actually a bit more than limited but not anything special if you know what I mean. Basic algebra comes in more often than anything else, and computers do wonders these days.

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.








or just go skiing.

[MultiVerse]

Calc II is hard. Especially if you aren't proficient with the underlying Trig functions. If you can get through it however then Calc III is much easier, much more interesting, and I believe you will need Multivariable Calculus for a serious career in economics.

Not that you can't get by without it, just that if you want to be unrestrained by your mathematical background and/or make a lot of money in econometrics/statistics then you'll need Multivariable Calculus, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, statistics and Calc II is the gateway that you have to go through to get there.

Otherwise, Calc II really, really, sucks. You can always drop the course and try taking it later or with another instructor or skip it altogether but doing so will close some doors.

FWIW my undergrad is in ME/Physics but the math has made a lot of other things possible.

[highangle]

then you got the econ types that Think they are good at math, from whence springs such gems as:

* Theory note: Here we appear to have the axes-intercepts of a constant-net-domestic-saving constraint in a plane defined by axes representing GDP and leverage, subject to which we collectively as default risk insurers of last resort might optimise our risk-reward [leverage-GDP] preferences. If there is a functional relationship between leverage and interest rates, as it seems not unreasonable to hypothesise, we find ourselves operating in the familiar interest-GDP plane of undergraduate macro’s IS-LM model. Net foreign financial inflows are, in theory, I – S, domestic investment in excess of domestic saving. The IS curve in the IS-LM model describes the set of points in that plane for which I = S, which is tantamount to assuming no net foreign financial flows, as we have done to generate this constraint. Presumably if we optimize some collective risk-reward preference subject to each of the infinite number of constant-net-domestic-saving constraints, we might generate something functionally equivalent to an IS curve, by means at least superficially different from those used by Hicks.

[jon turner]

Join a study group, get a tutor, go to office hours etc. You probably just need to find someone that can help you out in a way that you will be able to understand it. Calc II is hard. I personally thought Calc III was harder though, but that might have been because the prof was from Hong Kong and hadn't quite mastered English yet.

[tex1230]

took me 2 tries to get through Calc 2 - one day it just clicked.

stick with it - join a study group/get a tutor. That's about as hard as the math got for me - once you get it, everything that follows is easier.

Oh, and get really good at excel. you only have to do the math one time in the real world - put it in the spreadsheet and let the computer do it afterwards

13 years of derivative trading later and that's what I learned...

[Jim J]

When I was in school for engineering, not too long ago, you took the math courses that were required and didn't take the ones that weren't. I couldn't fathom choosing to take more math than required.

[Nomad79]

In my opinion, doing an econ degree without the Math is a cop out. You should take the math, its the only way you will be able to do some of the more technical econ classes. Also, it helps to get into grad school. the schools look at your transcript and see if you took the easy way out, or if you actually worked for your degree.

[QuikR12]

Hey young dude. Good work, a 3.5 in econ at CU is something to be proud of. I was an enviro econ major, and honestly the calc doesn't come into play that much. Its good to take, just because, but i ended up taking it twice cause I wasn't satisfied with my first C in it, so re-took, aced it, and pretty much got my recitation class through it cause the chinese grad student teacher couldn't spit a lick of english, nor was she very good at math.... Anyway, for econ or econ related careers, I would become as proficient as possible in statistics rather than any other mathematical discipline. Seriously, stats is key in about any biz/finance/econ career. Pretty much everything fiscal (and most things physical) is measured and metered in stats, so i would really, really focus on this subject. Its sucks to study, but can take you a long long way.

Try an econometrics course in the future, which is an application of some stats and some calculus.

[DeeAre]

Quit/limit your chronic intake and it will be easier. I promise.

[Brock Landers]

I think for a BA in econ, get through Calc 2. However, you dont need to know calc 2...you need to know econ...but getting a grip on the calculus will help with what you do and understand down the road.

If youre thinking a grad degree, might want to spend more time practicing the calc.

2nd vote for excel, btw... (but you still need to know wtf is going on)

[tex1230]

2nd vote for excel, btw... (but you still need to know wtf is going on)

that was half-sarcastic. You have to be able to rebuild the models if your computer crashes or you change employers. I still do the math myself a few times a month to make sure I remember all the steps...

[Brock Landers]

I still do the math myself a few times a month to make sure I remember all the steps...

Hah I call b.s. on that!

As someone else mentioned, stats is very important and I think if you can get through econometrics and calc 2...youll do fine. More stats work cant hurt, and this would tie in with the calc.

[donutlynx]

i thought economics was all about politics? now there's math involved? i need to pay more attention.

[tex1230]

i thought economics was all about politics? now there's math involved? i need to pay more attention.

The math only matters to those of us who apply economics. Econ PhD's are only good at writing books

[powski3]

I have a Masters in Financial Economics (all math) and a Masters in Political Economy (no math) and the beginings of a PhD in Econs so I probably am the leading authority on where the math is and where it isn't within economics.

Where can a Masters in Political Economy lead? I like the theory/writing/analysis aspect of economics and have considered additional study in it, but advanced math sounds like torture.

[mdblows]

Thanks to everyone who responded, I decided to drop the class as I knew I 1.Fucking hated it and 2. Quantitative Economics isn't a direction I want to go in. Stuntcok's MA in Political Economy sounds much more interesting to me than an MA in Financial Econ.

[WrongWay]

Sounds like you have made up your mind. On the off-chance it's still open, I would encourage you to tough it and do a year of calculus especially if you are interested in doing anything economics-related. It's just one lousy year and you are already half way there.

Economics is becoming more and more quantitative. Without calculus, you will be limiting your options in a way you will likely regret if you go into economics or a related field. And, even if your future path doesn't involve economics, it may very well still involve "analytic literacy", as an increasing number of fields do these days.

For example, today I'm a freaking statistician, which is pretty comical to me as it isn't at all what I might have imagined myself doing when I was an undergrad studying stuff like english, philosophy, theatre, and psychology.

[StuntCok]

As someone who studied both spectrums in different institutions I can say that there are perhaps more opportunities for someone studying the political side of econs, as opposed to the conventional math based econs. My classmates in political economy have gone on to work in banking, non-government institutions like the IMF, the foreign service, law (after going to law school) and even the CIA. My classmates from financial econs are pretty much all in banking of some sort. That said, if you want to actually be an economist, you will need the math. FWIW, political economy was more interesting, had a more diverse group of students and is probably more of a rounded education. Oh, and there were more girls.

[Franz Klammer]

For the first 2 years of a PhD any course in economics is essentially an applied math course so you will desperately need a good understanding of calculus. The same applies to political economy where nowadays all that is published in research journals is at the same quantitative level.

If you don't like the math aspect even a little bit I would strongly advise against pursuing graduate school in economics or political economy.

[Franz Klammer]

... so I probably am the leading authority on where the math is and where it isn't within economics.

Think again!

[StuntCok]

Well I have a masters in political economy that didn't use calc (from the London School of Economics). You may want to write them a letter and tell them they are doing it wrong, Franz. On the other hand, my Financial Economics degree was pure math as was the begining of my PhD in Econs so I will concur with that.

[barnescli]

International political economy or simply political economy is much like old school Adam Smith type economics and doesn't really need too much math. A bit of calc would be more than enough for grad school in in those subjects. I have a Masters in Financial Economics (all math) and a Masters in Political Economy (no math) and the beginings of a PhD in Econs so I probably am the leading authority on where the math is and where it isn't within economics.

Quoted for truth. I'm in the middle of an Econ PhD and stuntcok summed it up pretty well. Depends on what type of econ you want to do. I only took Cal one in undergrad and it worked out fine.

[Sirshredalot]

International political economy or simply political economy is much like old school Adam Smith type economics and doesn't really need too much math. A bit of calc would be more than enough for grad school in in those subjects. I have a Masters in Financial Economics (all math) and a Masters in Political Economy (no math) and the beginings of a PhD in Econs so I probably am the leading authority on where the math is and where it isn't within economics.

I'm similarly well-qualified to answer this question.

Take lots and lots of math. If you're thinking grad school in pure econ or anything at the PhD level, you should have a minimum of diff. eq. and matrix algebra under your belt, in addition to some stats and undergrad econometrics if they offer it. Study hard and keep your grades up. The math is a tool that you want for grad school in most of those disciplines.

A lot of the environmental econ. programs are administered through ag. departments, which have traditionally been very econometrics-oriented. Master's in Public Policy or Master's in Political Economy programs won't require a lot of heavy lifting in terms of math, but they aren't worth much on the job market.