Ski shop botched binding installation - what next?

[paulster2626]

Alright long story short (I hope). Bought new pair of Kung Fujas and Schizo jester binders this season. After fucking around with practicing mounting them on a piece of wood, I just decided to say fuck it and let the "professionals" handle it. Took it to the local shop who has apparently been in business for 20+ years, etc. I spoke with the owner of the place and left specific instructions on how I wanted them mounted.

Schizo bindings allow 6cm of movement, so I wanted them to be right at centre of the ski when at +30mm, which would let me dial them back up to 6cm for skiing pow/etc.

Well I got 'em back today, and decide to test out the awesomeness of a moving binding, but wait! They mounted the rear plate too far forward, and I get a whopping 2cm of movement back from centre. This means that the rear plate on each ski needs to be moved, which means there are 5 holes drilled in to the ski that aren't necessary. Soooo pissed - I'm heading back there in a few minutes but I'd like to know if anyone else has had this problem before, and what do I need to be concerned about w.r.t. filling up the holes that they've drilled. Also what's common practice for a ski shop to rectify this blunder? Is it really not a big deal at all, and I'm just freaking out for no reason?

The ultimate kicker: when I took 'em in I brought a 6-pack of beer (fuckin' Creemore, too - it's delicious) to make sure that they took real good care in the mount. Fuckers must have drank it first.

[GoEhuge]

You are owed.... a lesson on how to use the search function.



Muliple threads about this. I just posted about it happening to me last week.
But fuckit, because I know how annoying it is to be the victim... The short answer is that there is no typical response. Some get as little as the mount for free. Others (like myself) get brand new skis and the mount done right. Others still just get some sort of shop credit. Bottom line is you need to be nice calm and willing to work it out.

[paulster2626]

Ahh shit - I search all the time. Fuckin JONG I am.

[Neuro]

If they fill them properly and the existing(bad) holes don't interfere with the new mounts, then if shouldn't really affect the skis. It has certainly hurt their resale value, and if you ever decide to mount a different set of bindings, those holes could be in the way, so it could definitely cause problems down the road.

I've heard different opinions on what a shop should do when they mess up. These range from 'the tech who screwed up bought your skis, they owe you a new set' to 'they'll fix it for free, and maybe throw in a free wax/tune sometime'. Your relationship with the shop could also affect things. i.e. are you a regular, or someone who came in once to get a mount.

Personally, if they redo the mount properly, and they apologize, I'd be ok with it. If they can't make it right because the bad holes are too close to where the new holes are, I might give them a bit more of a hard time. I have a regular shop I go to, and I wouldn't want to be an ass, because they've been pretty generous and helped me out in the past.

I've got into the habit of writing instructions on the ski when I take them in to get work done, especially if it's something different from what's usually done. Write what you want on a piece of masking tape, and put it on the ski before you take it in.

[HankScorpio]

buy the shop guys the beer after they do the mount properly

[paulster2626]

if you ever decide to mount a different set of bindings, those holes could be in the way, so it could definitely cause problems down the road.

Personally, if they redo the mount properly, and they apologize, I'd be ok with it. If they can't make it right because the bad holes are too close to where the new holes are, I might give them a bit more of a hard time. I have a regular shop I go to, and I wouldn't want to be an ass, because they've been pretty generous and helped me out in the past.

I've got into the habit of writing instructions on the ski when I take them in to get work done, especially if it's something different from what's usually done. Write what you want on a piece of masking tape, and put it on the ski before you take it in.

It's my local ski/bike shop. I go there for bike parts/etc., and my ski tuning supplies and stuff like that. I brought the skis in and spoke with the owner, and told him that they are new and different, and require extra attention. We then went in the back together and went over everything, how they are supposed to move, and what I wanted to happen with them. That's when I hooked them up with the beers, and said "I know these might be a bit of a pain, so here's an offering for some good karma". We had a nice chat about the trips they run to different ski hills in the summer and how I'd be in to that. It was going to be the start of something good.

But now this. The way I see it is they mounted the back plate about 4cm too far forward. That means if they fill them, every time I step in to these things I'm going to see a bunch of plugged holes, and it's going to bother me. Your point about mounting different bindings in the future is very valid as well.

Also, I'm pretty sure the installation instructions included with the bindings had steps to avoid this issue. It looks like the guy just wasn't paying attention and didn't read the instructions.

Am I out of line in asking for a replacement set? I could have made this mistake myself, but decided instead to let someone who "knows what they are doing" mount them. Whatever the replacements are going to cost them, I can promise that they will make that money back from me in the future, if they do the right thing. I'm pretty bummed out though.

[Neuro]

It sounds to me like you did your due diligence to make sure the mount was done right, and someone still managed to mess it up. You seem to be on pretty good terms with the shop, so talk to the owner and be civil about it. Make your case, and say why you think you should get a replacement set of skis. I'd try to emphasize the technical problems it could cause (problem mounting other bindings in the future) and the lost resale value (I think the conventional wisdom on TGR is -10% per mount), if the aesthetics are important to you, mention that as well. Hopefully the owner will agree, or at offer you some form of compensation that you think is reasonable. Emphasize that you've been a good customer in the past, and would like to continue to shop there in the future.

If the owner opts to blow you off, or doesn't offer you some kind of decent compensation, you could play hard ball a bit. Say that you're very disappointed with the quality of the work, and that you may prefer go take you business elsewhere if they aren't willing to stand behind their work. This has a lot of potential to back fire, as most owners don't respond well to that attitude. This isn't the approach I would take, unless this issue is worth losing the inside line with a shop in your opinion. If you do this, it's still worth being civil. Some might say that a shop isn't worth doing business if they won't stand behind their work, so if that's the way you like to operate, then it may be worth taking your business elsewhere if they won't make things right to your satisfaction.

[SuperGaper]

Being a Certified Ski Technician myself, I am loath to criticize another shop, but Marker provides straight up PICTURES in the mounting instructions!

So did they mount on the wrong line? I cant see how the heel plate alone can be in the wrong position, and the binding still function as designed.

(Note, my co-worker has mounted our only pair so far in the shop this year- though I did say "did they put pictures in the box?" and he said yes.

So maybe in this case- new skis? Do they sell K2? That is the real question, also Fujas are probably sold out by now. Maybe new pair next year.

Work with the shop, they feel bad I'm sure and don't want to lose their customer (or their shirt.)

At my shop if it is something we sell- not that we would EVER mismount a pair of skis- we replace that ski, and put the mismount into the demo fleet, hoping to make back the price of the ski.

[slobmonster]

I work on skis for a living (lord knows how this happened...).

When I am blessed with clear instructions regarding a customer's mount job, I do what has been asked. Your shop failed to do so, unfortunately. Personally, if I were you, I would ask that the screwup be fixed, and the charge of your mount refunded (or free tunes on those skis for life, or something). It won't harm the ski's integrity at all if the holes are plugged with WOOD, and given your description of the problem, holes will be +2 cm away anyway.

(An aside, but ski shops really don't make much money, and if your shop wants any more of yours...)

[pfluffenmeister]

only the back plates are mis-mounted?

i'm not sure, but i think that i read a thread here mentioning that the schizo jig has the center line in the wrong place.

maybe this could be the cause of the mis-mount?

Edit: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...chizo+mounting

sounds like that might be the problem.

[MightyQuinn]

only the back plates are mis-mounted?

i'm not sure, but i think that i read a thread here mentioning that the schizo jig has the center line in the wrong place.

maybe this could be the cause of the mis-mount?

Edit: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...chizo+mounting

sounds like that might be the problem.

Yeah, that IS the problem. Kinda funny that Gaper didn't mention that. Sounds like the shops problem still, but not because he didn't listen to you, he didn't listen to Marker. I know misdrilled skis are aggravating, but new skis are not warranted. These things happen. An apology and a few free tunes should make up for the mistake.

[paulster2626]

I work on skis for a living (lord knows how this happened...).

When I am blessed with clear instructions regarding a customer's mount job, I do what has been asked. Your shop failed to do so, unfortunately. Personally, if I were you, I would ask that the screwup be fixed, and the charge of your mount refunded (or free tunes on those skis for life, or something). It won't harm the ski's integrity at all if the holes are plugged with WOOD, and given your description of the problem, holes will be +2 cm away anyway.

(An aside, but ski shops really don't make much money, and if your shop wants any more of yours...)

Alright got it. Plug 'em with wood, and they're good.

Since the bindings move around anyway (when installed right), I don't think I'd need to mount other ones later on, as this is the whole purpose of the Schizo's.

The mount is fine save for the fact that the rear plate is 4cm too far forward, and I can only slide the bindings back a total of 1.5cm from centre. They guy just messed them up, as I'm 100% sure they have never seen these before. I had to explain to him 3 or 4 times how they are supposed to work until he 'got' what he did to bugger them.

I understand people make mistakes, and I could tell the dude was upset. Didn't get mad or anything, just told him that it's a bummer that this happened but we have to figure something out. If plugging the holes is fine for a ski, then I'll let them do it. At least I'll know that if I take ANTHYING there again, they are going to really be scared of fucking my shit up again.

If it's only going to end up being a cosmetic thing, I can live with that - I'd rather use these skis that I've gone to so much trouble to get than ride my old ones for another season.

So - just tell them to plug those holes with WOOD, and we're good-to-go? Got it.

Figures though - in all my years of skiing, my pops and I have never messed up on a binding mount. First time I take them to a ski shop they do this. Kind of funny, I guess.

Thanks for the input fellas.

[otto parts]

Couple of thread on this, but I'd say slow set epoxy in the hole, then hardwood dowel cut just below flush, epoxy on top. Waterproof and can drill very close to it if you need to in the future.

And ask for $100 in store credit.

[pfluffenmeister]

so is 1.5cm the total amount of movement? or can you move the binding forward as well?

it doesn't sound like just a cosmetic issue to me (as you no longer have the ability to move your binding back for pow skiing)

anyway, i hope that you come to some equitable agreement with the shop.

[paulster2626]

Shop says they fixed them, and says he called his best tech in who "used to work in Whistler" to plug the holes and remount the rear plate.

Says that there is no compromised ski integrity whatsoever, and if I can get a shop to say that there is then he'll buy me new skis and give me $100. As long as this is true, I don't care about new skis. I can't see a reason to mount other bindings on them in the future, and even if I did I seriously doubt the holes would interfere since they were made so far ahead of where they should have been.

I'm picking them up today, so we'll see what the deal is. I don't like this place anymore. I just keep getting the feeling that although they try, they are just a 'bad' shop.

Fuck, I just want to go skiing.

[PuderLuder]

^^^^ I had a bad mount once at a local "real mountaineering" shop. I went there since I wanted to support them vs. some chain. They, in fact, only do AT or tele mounts as well. Anyway, they got the spot wrong and only offered to remount them in the correct spot for no additional charge. I had them do it, but do not go there for service anymore. I didn't make a fuss, and doubt whether they realize they lost my business, but they did.

PL

[smmokan]

There may not be "compromised ski integrity", but you should tell the guy that a used pair of skis with two sets of holes is a hell of a lot harder to sell than a pair with one set of holes. Ask if he's willing to make up that difference- I would imagine its at least $100.

[Conundrum]

It won't harm the ski's integrity at all if the holes are plugged with WOOD, and given your description of the problem, holes will be +2 cm away anyway.

Alright got it. Plug 'em with wood, and they're good..

This comes up about once a year or so. "You have to plug the skis with WOOD." Why the emphasis on WOOD? Why no plastic hole plugs?

The only emphasis I put on wood is in the morning and what I'm going to do with it. Then I make coffee.

Wood absorbs water. Plastic doesn't absorb water. The goal of the hole plug is to keep water out of the core right? Hmmm....

It adds no sturctural benefit unless you are epoxying a wood plug into the ski to drill close to the old hole. I'm not necessarily into that fix anyway-it works but I would rather use and insert or heli-coil for that job.

Here's something I said about wood plugs a year or two ago that might make it make more sense.

I guess you could do that but you shouldn't need to like with wood plugs. The plastic conforms to the hole. Just look at the sex toy industry...not a lot of wood pieces out there.

[paulster2626]

Well they didn't use wood, they used plastic plugs. I can't even see them, since the rear plate is so big it covers everything. I trust the guy - he seemed bummed out his son screwed it up.

They gave me my money back, and tried to give me a replacement 6-er of beer but I told them to keep it.

The saga continues though - gave the skis and bindings the thorough look over on their bench before I took them, and noticed that they've broken the tabs that prevent the front bindings from being able to come off. It's not a big deal or neccessary any way, but I don't like the way it looks, and its bullshit that they're broken.

The guy is going to the Marker warehouse tomorrow to get replacements, but I'm not going to bother putting them on. I'll just keep them as spares in the event that I sell the bindings down the road.

Bindings look and work great though - should be a lot of fun this season. I'll provide a full review once I get some miles on 'em.

Thanks for the input - I appreciate it.

[SuperGaper]

Those toe plates are the same as the demo track, the tabs prevent rental techs from running the toe piece too far forward.

To unmount the binding you have to run over the tabs and break them. That is on Marker and not the shop.

Plastic plugs are fine. We have never used anything else, and 11 years in a shop I have never seen anything else.

It is unfortunate that things didn't go well the first time around, but it does sound like the shop wants you business, and would like to keep you happy.

In the end you will have a ski and binding that skis great, and from what I gather 4 extra holes per ski, so mounted 1.5 times. Not great, but not the end of the world either.