Bro Model Testing Is Complete

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It's done. The final tests on the Bro Models were completed yesterday with great success and we will go to production with the confidence that all you new owners will get what you expect -- killer boards that will slay the mountain in every condition, ownerize the deep, and provide a value unsurpassed in the industry. It's been a long haul, but we had to make it right for all you faithful supporters.

Here's a shot to let you know just how tough the Bros are:

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Just got home from Hood, totally road-weary, but very satisfied at the feedback the guys had on the skis, as well as what I experienced myself. I get to rest tomorrow, then have a commitment for the following four days. I'll try to get some more comparisons to other skis, but it might be next week. In short, like the others said, if you like a soft ski, you'll love this one. If you want a stiff, but not too-stiff ski, the stiff Bro is the one. If you're looking to move up to a stiff ski from a soft one, now is the time and the stiff Bro is the ski.

Rob says the soft Bro teles like a dream, and he's a super-stiff ski kind of guy. Vets has a review already written up and he'll be posting it soon.

Sorry I can't answer all the pms and emails right now.
I'm burnt from the last four days on the hill and the road.

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Karl, Verbier61-
Or the stiffie... The stiff Bro flexes between the Legend Pro and the B3. I haven't skied the LP, so I can't comment on a comparison. I think the soft Bro is softer in the tip than the B3 and more turnable, yet has the same stability underfoot.

At almost 200 lbs. and having a penchant for stiff skis, the soft is too soft for me, but the stiff rules.

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Right about then, Verbier....

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I don't mean to not respond to all the questions and requests, but I took on a 4 day photo shoot for a buddy who is sick. I was going to take a few days off, but...oh, well. It's rodeo girls barrel racing and has been kinda cool. Getting to shoot a wide variety of Canon digitals, which is almost as nice as shooting only women. It's over Sunday and I'll be back to the Bro machine Monday........

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teledudeles- I have shots and measurements for the tele mounting Rob used, but am tied up til Monday.

Merlyn - Sound like the stiffs would do you better if you like both the B3s and the Bigs/Inspireds. The flex is a bit stiffer than B3s, very close to Bigs (flamed ones), and a bit less than LPs. Some who tested thought it carves like Inspireds, maybe easier and quicker.

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That's really not the case, Yo. Though the comments might have made it sound like the soft BRO skis like a B3, it is softer than a B3. Noticeably so. Because I had B3s, I can speak to this comparison.

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Yo, go with me on this - get the stiff...........

As for additional comparisons, etc., please bear with me. I haven't unpacked my bags in over ten weeks, I'm crackin the whip on the guys in the shop, and am suffering terminal burn-out. But we will deliver and I won't stop until it's all said and done!

I apologize profusely for running late (it makes us look like a big company or something). Our new target date for having the first 25 pair ready for shipping is November 1. I know this snow makes us all anxious, but you won't regret buying the Bro Models and allowing us the time to make it better.

The guys at the shop where I was going to do the comparisons are a little edgy about me coming in to flex test against all their models during business hours (for fear people will start asking about the Bros), so I have to time my testing for when the least number of customers are around.

I'm on it.........

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Cool, mntlion. I was afraid they'd be too soft. And thanx to Tom for smuggling them into Canada. The new soft is a bit stiffer than those, but I can't quantify the ratio much more than that.

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For comparison to other boards, by hand. Could use a force meter, but probably not in the shop....

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I was talkin to Yo, but would defer you to Idris for a G4 comparison in those two lengths. I think he's skied them.

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funken - mounting point has been determined between a foot of fresh at Hood and then on the hardpack. If you want to mount them for really deep pow, you could drop back a mm from the mark that will be on them. It was really obvious where the boot centerline should be. It was determined by Rob, Tom, and myself. We all have different boot sizes and all agreed on the point. But we all felt that with that big tip, it'll rip pow without ever having to drop back in the seat. So 1 mm oughta do it if want to Alta-ize them.

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1cm or 1mm?

mm, 2mm if you think you'll need it, but don't start thinking in centimeters whatsoever.

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When one click forward or back on a demo binding is 6mm - and the difference is day and night-
You don't think 2mm is gonna make a difference?

I'm simply suggesting a setback that I think will allow you to retain piste performance while enhancing powder performance, based on our testing. If the difference wasn't noticeable, there would be no need for boot centerlines, which are, in reality, simply suggestions for mounting. Unfortunately, if a guy doesn't feel like drilling a bunch of holes in his skis, or have an unending supply of the same boards to experiment on, that suggestion is all he has to go on, no matter what ski he buys.

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Hey now, there's enough play in a demo binding where I wouldn't be surprised if you got more than 6mm in flex from them.

Say What????????

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I beg to differ. I 've moved bindings 1-2 mm on many skis and noticed a difference. And Tom, I think your statement is out to lunch. Rob noticed a big difference from one click fore or back, I noticed a big difference one click fore or back. You didn't?

We have skied the ski with the mount point as far back as 4-1/2 centimeters from the current point. However, we also noticed we were leaning out over the tips and getting major shin bang to get them to ski when way back there. My suggestion for anyone who is near someone associated with PM Gear that has demo bindings on their skis is to ski a pair with demo bindings and find the mount point that suits you best. Then post here and tell us about it. I think that should be done with any ski. Kinda takes the guesswork out of it.

funken - your man would be 2P.

BB- apparently this sounds too Epic for you, right?

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Baker Boy, we've determined what we believe is the proper recommended boot center. When out of that center, the ski skis differently; as Tom said, farther forward, more hooky, farther back, not as easy, smooth, or precise a turner. How much these differences are noticed is subjective.

But please tell me - what kind of ski allows you to move the boot center centimeters forward or back with no noticeable difference, and in what kind of ski will that movement of the boot center be most noticed in? For the sake of arguement, let's say the ski is being skied on a firm, but pliable, piste condition.

I will once again say that the 20 mm (2 cm) Tom talks about makes the Bro a completely different ski, as I would expect in any ski. Moving that much off the boot center we've established is an extremely noticeable detriment to how the ski turns, the ease with which it turns, it's carving, and stability. In either direction. Now, if someone wants to make it a powder-specific ski by running the boot center back a bit, that's a different story - but a big part of our thoughts in the initial design was to make a ski in which the tip and waist girth float will allow a more aggressive forward stance, rather than necessitating a tail-gunner position in the deep.

And yes, moving a binding 1-2 mm will punch a new hole on the side of the old one. It's a risky undertaking if someone decides they want to move a boot center only that much, but this isn't a discussion about moving bindings, it's about being in the right spot on the first go-around. Nonetheless, I've moved bindings 3-4 mm to dodge the old holes and felt I'd gone too far. The key, again, is to find the best mounting point the first time. Which is why we have been using demo bindings. I was so torn between two demo settings, which were 6mm apart the last time we skied the Bros, I marked my preference inbetween the two points. Imagine that, a measly 3mm!
(btw- I still don't understand what you meant when you said a demo binding would give the ski 6mm of flex. Please explain.)

But it sounds like you are speaking from some experiences you've had so I ask that you please elaborate how many centimeters you have moved your bindings, whether it was forward or back, and if you noticed any difference.
But more importantly, did you move them fore or aft because you had originally mounted at boot center and felt you needed to be somewhere else on the ski? Was your move a wild guess or an incremental increase to find the sweetest of the sweet spots? I'd actually love to hear your story at finding the boot center that has best suited you. And in the process, find out exactly what it is you're either getting at or trying to understand. Is it finding that crucial mounting point, as you said, and that, to you, moving them only millimeters is incomprehensible to change the feel of the ski?

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Rob mounted BOF 2-3/4" ahead of the boot centerline, which is the same on all stiffnesses. He didn't change the tele setting he used for the stiffensses.

Is teletori = Tor-Inge?

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That is correct!

I have a pair of 188 G4's that ski like a dream, and going to see how the mounting points will compare!

They will be delivered to my door tomorrow... and hope to kick ass on them soon

BTW, do you know what size teleboots he's on?

Probably an 8 to 8-1/2 US street shoe. Don't know about his boots.