Reforming Intuitions?

[mitch_cumstein]

Not unlike healthcare, my liners could use some reform(ing) I think*.

I've got about 60-70 days in my intuition liners (Dalbello Il Moro) and they've been feeling unusally 'roomy' lately in the toe box especially. I love the shell and liners otherwise, but I'm wondering if they've just packed out and could benefir from being re-molded? If so, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to ask the fitter to form them straight to my foot sintead of doubling socks and the toe cap the original fitter insisted upon to get a little closer fit?

The last thing I would think could make a difference is picking up some custom footbeds. I'm still riding the stock beds. Will this make a great difference? I've never had custom beds. Or is this typically only going to make a difference for those with sensistive feet or whatever?

How much does a decent custom footbed run?

Thanks..

[XXX-er]

I got flat feet ,I have had a few sets of custom made orthotics made by a specialist for walking/running ect on my extended health ,the last pair was 340 $

http://www.yoursole.com/

I also got some of the soles for 40 $ ,which you can heatmold or shave foam off the bottoms of ,I have done side to side comparisons where I put the cheap foot bed in one boot and the 340$ custom made in the other , go skiing AND ...I forgot which boot was which

if you are a ski bum with no money I would try the soles

[The Dad]

Whether they'll help depends on your feet.

How much they cost depends on type and maker.

As for reforming, yeah, it may help, and it's definitely do-able.

[furball]

Why not mold the liners yourself? try this link for instructions:
www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_cooking.htm
it's pretty easy, and don't use extra socks. a toecap is a good idea tho'
you should be able to re-mold intuitions 5-6 time before they give up.

even Superfeet footbeds would likely be better than the junk that comes stock in most boots. Try a pair of those before you hand over a lot of money for custom beds--unless you have some issue with the structure of your feet.

[khyber.pass]

Whoa, you should NOT be doubling socks. Au contraire, you should be wearing thin-ass lady's nylons my friend. I'd also ditch the toecap. I only ever use a toecap for moulding touring boots where you want the wiggle. For downhill boots, you should be using your thinnest socks possible (again: nylons).

As for footbeds, it's amazing how close Superfeet etc. are to $$$ custom beds.

[Wes Mantooth]

Intuitions totally blow up when you heat them so you should be able to re-form them and lose some room

I usually mold with thin socks as well, sometimes with a toe cap depending on what I'm using the boot for

[The Dad]

I've always used a toe cap, but I like to wiggle.

[Jim J]

I always hear people talk about how you "should be able to mold them up to five times", or remolding "should take up some of the extra volume."

Has any one actually had intuitions that pack out some and a remold made them tighter again?

I had one of my liners remolded and it got noticeably looser. The shop did it with the liner in the boot and then put it on the blower. I don't see how it could have possibly been shop error as that seems about as simple as it gets.

I would recommend just wearing ticker socks until you hear first hand that a remold helped take up volume, because it didn't work out that way in my experience.

[skiing-in-jackson]

Intutions are never as good as they are on the first cook. I like say they are 85% compression and 15% expansion. You get 2.5 good cooks from an Intution liner.

I also recommend using the toecaps and a process that involves nothing thicker than women's hose to hold it all together.

[Snow Dog]

I used the [ame=http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170547]Rice Moulding[/ame] approach to redoing my liners when I added SuperFeet insoles. I just need good support, not special orthodics. The thick base that Intuition claims replaces the footbed just didn't work for me.

Use thin socks (nylons), a toe cap, and don't tighten the boots too much. You want to mould the liner, not crush it.

[hutash]

If you have relatively normal feet superfeet are a good, much cheaper option. I prefer toe caps as well, but I like to wiggle my toes to keep them warm. Not a race fit, and I am sure I loose a little performance, but I am not on the WC circuit, so comfort is more important then performance. I also agree that double socks, or thick socks is very wrong when baking liners.

[khyber.pass]

I had one of my liners remolded and it got noticeably looser. The shop did it with the liner in the boot and then put it on the blower. I don't see how it could have possibly been shop error as that seems about as simple as it gets.

What socks were you wearing? Did you put your toes on a board? How hot was the blower? How long were the liners heated for? How long did you stand? How tight were your buckles?



Lots of variables to play with.

[mitch_cumstein]

So I'm sitting in my living room with a freshly 'baked' pair of intuitions (in shell) on my feet and they certainly feel more snug now. I brought them right over after skiing today so I wore a typical thin pair of smartwools I already had on and left out the toe cap. We just threw them in the oven and back on my feet sans toe cap. I left the buckles as loose as possible while still being buckled with some tension.

There is noticeably less room in the toe and heal pocket feel more snug...actually the whole boot 'feels' smaller, though I'd be willing to bet these pack out again in a few weeks of hard riding, just maybe a little less than they were fomerly, which would be fine.

The boots are not too big, I went dont about a size and a half d=from my street shoe which is typically what I go for in boots, around a 27. I think I'm just at the point where every little wiggle feels like it effs my turn up just a little bit, though I'm not a fan of toe curling race fit...I like comfort too. So, I think I should be good to go.

The dude in the shop also offered me a pair of footbeds for a song. I didnt catch the brand name. I'm taking him up on the offer Friday. I'd like to hear more pros and cons (if any) of custom beds, what to expect, and an associated cost if anyone wants to volunteer info. I'm psyched though because I've never had custom beds in 20 years of skiing. What do you typically get for say sub $100?

[sierraskier]

I have Superfeet in Krypton Pro's - huge improvement over the shitty stock Dalbello footbeds. I've had Superfeet in the last 3 pairs of boots. They have like 4 or 5 different footbeds for different foot type. I think they run like $50. I actually have Superfeet in my hiking boots and wading boots also.

Good to hear your re-bake worked. However I think you should be baking with the after-market insoles IN them. I am at the exact same point with my ID's getting too packed out and need to re-bake 'em...

[mitch_cumstein]

I have Superfeet in Krypton Pro's - huge improvement over the shitty stock Dalbello footbeds. I've had Superfeet in the last 3 pairs of boots. They have like 4 or 5 different footbeds for different foot type. I think they run like $50. I actually have Superfeet in my hiking boots and wading boots also.

Good to hear your re-bake worked. However I think you should be baking with the after-market insoles IN them. I am at the exact same point with my ID's getting too packed out and need to re-bake 'em...

Yeah, the guy at the shop said the same thing about baking with the aftermarkets in them as well, but said it shouldnt make much of difference (look out here comes the mud).

I basically dont have any foot trouble, no black toes anymore either. I've just heard so much hype since the 90's on the benefit of custom beds that I feel somewhat obligated, though I dont think I've ever read or heard a clear answer as to the actual benefits-Is there that great a difference in comfort performance over stock beds?

On your superfeet beds, did you have any work done with them for the 50 or is that just what they run stock?

I think the shop I'm going to uses 'DPS' brand maybe ??? Any good??

[sierraskier]

Yeah, the guy at the shop said the same thing about baking with the aftermarkets in them as well, but said it shouldnt make much of difference (look out here comes the mud).

I basically dont have any foot trouble, no black toes anymore either. I've just heard so much hype since the 90's on the benefit of custom beds that I feel somewhat obligated, though I dont think I've ever read or heard a clear answer as to the actual benefits-Is there that great a difference in comfort performance over stock beds?

On your superfeet beds, did you have any work done with them for the 50 or is that just what they run stock?

I think the shop I'm going to uses 'DPS' brand maybe ??? Any good??

Hmmm not sure about DPS, just have experience with Superfeet. They help me a lot because I have high arches. I can ski/hike/wade without 'em but with 'em the connection to the boot feels so much more solid and locked in. I also have kind of a skinny/boney foot so the extra support and thickness of the footbed takes up more volume in the boot. I also feel slightly more balanced on my feet/skis. The only "work" they do with these entry-level footboeds is simply cut the toe of the insole to match the shape of your stock insole/liner, so they fit snug into and match the shape of the boot. This is what they should do for you with the purchase of the foot bed, but you can do this yourself easily by just taking the stock liner out, putting it over the after-market one, and cut around the edges so they match.

It's all personal preference, and not all people need them, but you can clearly see the difference between the two if you take the stock liner out and look at it closely next to an aftermarket one. The Superfeet have considerably more support around the back of the heel and the arch. They have hard plastic cups that form the shape of your foot. The stock liners are just crappy foam which offers little/no support and packs out real quickly.

[khyber.pass]

I use Superfeet in all my hiking and ski boots. "Custom" work? What, you mean trimming with scissors?

Unless you got some wack feet, issues with foot pain unresolvable otherwise (liner and bootwork), or are racing, I'd suggest you don't need custom soles.

Np. I have to wear orthotics in shoes.. and I don't need custom insoles.

[mitch_cumstein]

I was under the impression that 'custom insoles' implied some sort of customization to my foot, maybe a little more involved than t'trimming with scissors.'

I was offered them for $40 bucks. But isn't that basically the cost of the insole off the shelf? And the shop guy admitted they cost next to nothing for them to buy. What's the big deal? I'm just not getting it I guess. Am I not just buying an insole then, no time or expertise from the shop guy??

[XXX-er]

if they work they don't need to be custom ... they just work

[adrenalated]

OK, there's basically 3 types of insoles:

1) Stock. These are the crappy, basically worthless insoles that come with boots. They offer little to no support.

2) Off the shelf. Superfeet are the most common brand, but there are others. They are molded to a generic shape that fits most people fairly well. They offer considerably more support and a better fit than stock insoles. Standard Superfeet retail at $35.

3) Custom. These are custom molded to the shape of your foot. If an off-the-shelf insole does not fit well, you should get these. They offer the best fit because (duh) they are custom molded to your exact foot shape. I don't know the brand names. They generally cost at least $100.

My recommendation is to never use the stock footbeds, but only go for a full custom one if the off-the-shelf ones don't fit. I personally just use Superfeet because they fit me pretty well, but some people can definitely benefit from customs.

Liners must be molded as they will be skied. That means footbeds in them. To do otherwise defeats the purpose.

[XXX-er]

if you are skiing G-fits without molding and you can stand being in them for more than 15miutes you very likely got a shell size that is TOO big ... you gotta pick a shell size and mold g-fits

the soles are a heat moldable foot bed ,you put em in the oven ,they have a little silver sticker on the bottom ,when the sticker turns black they are done ,put em in your shoes and stand on till cool for only 40$ ,if you got flat feet like me I wouldnt bother with the heat mold process and you don't really need to

[mitch_cumstein]

I think I do have flat feet. I definitely dont have high arches, maybe a little slim and bony, but I never have problems. I skied in the remolded intuitions today and they felt great though I still feel a little more play than ideal. Though I think I'm really nitpicking and debating whether an off the shelf bed, even for 40 bucks is really worth the money and effort to improve my stance in the boot.

I think if I wet down a shell size I'd certainly be race fit and curling my toes a little.

I think the biggest annoyance to me, if you can even call it that, is that I feel like I have a little extra volume across the top of my foot which I cant really get rid of unless I clamp my shall down ultra hard and still.

Debating whether to walk across the street to the shop now..hmmm..

[Snow Dog]

The issue isn't so much flat feet but over-pronation -- the foot rolls to the inside instead of evenly supporting your weight. Your foot is changing it's shape inside the boot so it never fits right. A good insole keeps the foot geometry more static so a good fit can be achieved.