Shop mags: How to mount skis at home?

[couloirman]

So, I have a hand drill, and lots of experience woodworking(building guitars and what not) and wondered if there already is a step by step guide of any sort to home ski mounting, or if someone could walk me through it? I know, its not rocket science(just drill some freaking holes and put the damn screws in there), but Im sure there little tricks of the trade I dont know that would make my life easier mounting my new sticks.(FWIW, Im throwing dukes on XXL's that have a previous set of holes Ill need to avoid).

Specific Q's:

1) type/size of drill bit? controlling depth of the hole with a hand drill?
2) templates?
3) epoxy for screws?
4) mounting point on skis? obviously it varies depending on the ski but if someone says '2 cm back' is that usually from the recommended mount point, or from the center of the skis from tip to tail or what?

Sorry if its a rerun, I searched and found nothing, but then again Im a 1700 post interweb JONG so take that for what its worth.

[skifishbum]

Safety first
Smoke once measure several times

[Eluder]

[ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135671"]http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135671[/ame]

and you should be able to find a paper template for dukes.

[couloirman]

^^^ thanks for that, didnt see that thread.

[skew]

www.tognar.com has all the bits, glue, etc., stuff you will need. Getting the proper bit is really important and they explain what you what you need.

If you want to be really super careful one way to make your own template is to mount the bindings to a board first and take the template off that.

[snowful]

Safety first
Smoke once measure several times

You're such a lightweight.

Measure once smoke several times.

[booner]

I used to make templates from old mounts...they worked good enough, but were a hair off. The one I use now I made using measurements (hole distances on center) I got off some thread here, and it is dead on. Drink lots of brew/smoke lots of bud, check screw lengths on the sidewall to make sure they aren't too long, buy ski specific bits from Tognar, and use a posi #3 screwdriver to hand tighten the screws. I make my templates (acrylic) so that I'm dead in the middle of the forward pressure adjustment range. (the measurements I got off a thread on here put me a half turn from the max length, which I didn't like, so I just moved the heel holes in to the half way point). To mark my boot center I put the toe piece in the template, put the boot in the toe, and mark boot center on the template. I've also never tapped a ski with metal in it and I've never had a problem. I also sand/file down the little bubble that forms on the topsheet from drilling to get a perfectly flush mount.

Edit...I've found the most critical part of the mount, for me, is center-punching a small starter hole dead on your mark (My templates are made so a fine point Sharpie fits perfectly into the holes, and then I punch the sharpie mark) Also needs to be done when making the template (marks done with cross-hairs, cross-hairs center-punched before drilling). Be careful punching the template, cause it does crack if you get to crazy. If you don't do this the drill will drift and put everything a bit off.

[El Chupacabra]

Specific Q's:

1) type/size of drill bit? controlling depth of the hole with a hand drill?
2) templates?
3) epoxy for screws?
4) mounting point on skis? obviously it varies depending on the ski but if someone says '2 cm back' is that usually from the recommended mount point, or from the center of the skis from tip to tail or what?

1) Buy the ski-specific drill bits from Tognar, Artech, or Reliable Racing. Get a 4.1 x 9mm (for metal topsheet skis) and a 3.6 x 9mm (for non-metal topsheet skis). The ski drill bits have a shouldered design so you get the correct depth. IMHO these are worth it; don't mess around with duct-taping a stop point onto a SAE bit and hoping you don't drill through your bases.

2) Search again - there are several paper ones online here. Since you're mounting Dukes, you could do what I did: make a Duke template out of plexiglass by using the sticker template that comes with the Dukes. Carefully drill short pilot holes through the template, then you can drill the pilot holes out to their proper size with the ski-specific bits.

3) Generally, no. For freshly drilled holes, just use wood glue, and leave skis somewhere warm overnight after mounting, to let the glue dry. For re-using holes, or if they're a bit sloppy (e.g. screw isn't grabbing well, starting to spin), use epoxy.

4) Measure the marked mounting point to be sure that the ski manufacturer marked them consistently. A lot of the time they are mis-marked. If someone here says "2 cm back," that refers to 2 cm rearward of the manufacturer's marked line. FWIW, I generally go with the manufacturer's recommendation; they designed the ski, not me. The variable fore/aft comments seem more positioned towards park skis, or skis like K2's ones with the 9cm range of possible mounting points -- always seem to be on twin tips, not "directional" skis.

[XXX-er]

I stumbled upon a good easy drill stop , drill a hole thru a wine bottle cork , allow the drill to stick out the depth you want from the end of the cork and tighten the chuck ...hic

[Vitamin I]

...a previous set of holes Ill need to avoid...

1cm of material between holes is what people say. The XXL has metal and might be fine with even less than that.

...
1) type/size of drill bit? controlling depth of the hole with a hand drill?
...

General rule is 4.1mm bit for skis with metal, 3.5mm bit for the rest. XXL has metal. If you have no metric bits, you can make it work with 1/8-inch bit (which is only 3.175mm) and a 5/32-inch bit (which is only 3.969mm). If you lack confidence in your work (your 1st try), you can make a bomber 2-step hole in your metal ski by drilling thru metal and wood with the 1/8 bit, then follow up by drilling shallowly only thru metal layer with 5/32 bit (so you don't widen the hole in the deeper wood part of the hole).

You get a narrow hole, but the screw goes in.

Depth: Duct tape marker works for me. Hold binding in your hand (not on ski), put screw thru binding screw hole, see how far screw protrudes out the bottom of binding, hold your bit next to that protruding screw to verify your duct-tape marker is positioned for depth that matches the protruding section of screw.

Tip: taking the center punch idea an extra step, you can punch then drill first with a narrow bit to minimize skate error. Then widen the holes with your ski-related bits (might extend lifespan of the ski-related bits too, by making the narrower bits do some of the work).

...
4) mounting point on skis? obviously it varies depending on the ski...

A lot of maggots have owned more than a few pairs of skis in their lives. Tip: whenever you're selling your skis, before you unmount or ship, always measure their running length, total length, and the ACTUAL mid-bootsole mark ON YOUR BOOT WHEN CLICKED IN relative to both of those lengths (don't worry about the mid-sole graphic mark on the ski, unless you wanna measure that too for fun). Record that info somewhere (e.g. spreadsheet). Later, whenever you are choosing a mount point for new skis, measure runninglength/total length of your new skis and refer to your records to understand how much tip and tail length you like or don't like.

.

[booner]

A lot of maggots have owned more than a few pairs of skis in their lives. Tip: whenever you're selling your skis, before you unmount or ship, always measure their running length, total length, and the ACTUAL mid-bootsole mark ON YOUR BOOT WHEN CLICKED IN relative to both of those lengths (don't worry about the mid-sole graphic mark on the ski, unless you wanna measure that too for fun). Record that info somewhere (e.g. spreadsheet). Later, whenever you are choosing a mount point for new skis, measure runninglength/total length of your new skis and refer to your records to understand how much tip and tail length you like or don't like.

This method has failed me more than once...Seems to be OK for similar cores/flexes, but a stiffer/damper ski will be sketchy if mounted at the point that you had a softer/more playful ski...ie stiffer/damper needs to be mounted further back than the softer IMO

[skew]

Jondrums did most of the template work here: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...nding+template

[Vitamin I]

This method has failed me more than once...Seems to be OK for similar cores/flexes, but a stiffer/damper ski will be sketchy if mounted at the point that you had a softer/more playful ski...ie stiffer/damper needs to be mounted further back than the softer IMO

Agreed. Stiffness differences should be taken into account, esp. for soft snow performance (e.g. a shorter stiff tip won't bend upwards and stay above the surface, but a longer stiff tip will allow the snow forces to leverage it upwards, etc).

.

[lobstahmeatwad]

how the fuck could you spend this much time on this forum and have no clue?

[DHogg]

how do you make sure you drill perfectly straight into the ski when mounting freehand? Thats the main reason i don't like mounting freehand. You can measure everything perfectly, but if your holes are not perfect, the bindings not going to be straight.

[Spats]

I've mounted all my skis freehand for years.

You don't need any of that fancy junk from Tognar. A 5/32" bit (which is ~3.9mm) with electrical tape to control depth works just fine, for both metal and wood skis -- IF you put in all the screws by hand. (Cutting the threads the first time is where you screw up your skis...take the extra few minutes and do all the screws by hand, pushing down HARD. I have never had a screw pull out of any ski I've mounted, or even had a spinner, ever.)

AT bindings, like Dukes, are much harder because the toepiece has to meet up with the rear piece. Even if you have a template, it is highly recommended to install the rear piece, drill only one toepiece hole, install the toepiece with one screw, line up the toepiece so it locks perfectly with the rear piece, and THEN mark the positions of the rest of the toepiece holes based on where the binding actually is. *** Use an awl or something else sharp to mark the exact center of the hole, and provide a starter dent for the drill bit. ***

[ACHTUNG]

One tool tip: I found that digital calipers help tremendously to precicely determine the center width of the ski.

I live and work in Southern NH. I made plastic templates for small Dukes, Salomon, Look and medium Naxo. My Sally and Look templates are for a 315BSL. You're in Boston which is pretty close. Let me know if you need to borrow any of them or if you need help.

[toast2266]

^^^ ditto on the digital calipers. That's $20 well spent.

Also, if you've never mounted a binding before, doing a test mount on a 2x4 is a good idea. Do it just like you'd do it on the ski - make sure your boot clicks in smoothly, make sure that you're in the middle of the binding's adjustment range, make sure it comes out straight, etc.

[Thebaldskiman]

how do you make sure you drill perfectly straight into the ski when mounting freehand? Thats the main reason i don't like mounting freehand. You can measure everything perfectly, but if your holes are not perfect, the bindings not going to be straight.

You use a drill press.

As for the drill bits themselves, you could buy some flash new ones, or you could walk into any ski shop and ask the tech for an old one.
Shops buy them in boxes of 10, and because you can't sharped them, blunt ones are just chucked.
But they would still be good for a few home mounts.

If you took some beer, you might even get shown a few tips from someone who does it everyday.

IF you put in all the screws by hand. (Cutting the threads the first time is where you screw up your skis...take the extra few minutes and do all the screws by hand, pushing down HARD.

Worth repeating.
The bulk of what holds the binding to the ski is fibreglass reinforcement.
Yes the screws for ski bindings are self-tapping, but they will pull the top layers or the ski up as they screw in, which at best will leave you with mole hills round the top of the holes making it impossible to get the binding flat on the ski, or a spinner at worst.
So either push down HARD or better still, tap all the threads first, metal top sheet or not.
It will always give you a stronger mount.
Most alpine bindings use the same screws. A5.3mm dia tap with a 1.81mm thread pitch is what you need.
Tele bindings and some touring bindings use a different thread, so require a different tap.

And lastly, i still find it hilarious that a country as modern and forward thinking as America, still uses imperial measurements...
WTF.

[Velillen]

As for the drill bits themselves, you could buy some flash new ones, or you could walk into any ski shop and ask the tech for an old one.
Shops buy them in boxes of 10, and because you can't sharped them, blunt ones are just chucked.
But they would still be good for a few home mounts.

If you plan on mounting your bindings yourself for more than just one or two pairs i would still recommend picking up a brand new bit. Sharper bits are better and at $15 you're still saving money over paying someone else to do it. The way i see it your first mount and buying all the needed bits/tolls is gonna cost *about* the same (depending on exactly what all you need) as paying someone else to do it. Then the second and on are where you really save money.

And lastly, i still find it hilarious that a country as modern and forward thinking as America, still uses imperial measurements...
WTF.

It would cost trillions of dollars to convert to a total metric system. You'd also have to phase out current things that are specified in the imperial method. Just for instance and entire aircraft carrier is in imperial measurements. The carrier is going ot be around for 30-40 years so there alone you have to keep the system alive for at least that long. let alone all the paperwork (which if you've never seen any sort of building codes or blueprints its a shit ton)

but that is way off topic

[Spats]

You use a drill press.

I've never found that to be necessary: this isn't aeronautics or rocket science. It does make it easier to drill exactly at the intended mark, however, so you are correct that it's good to use one if you have it.

+1 on the digital calipers, though. ACHTUNG: that's a great tip, and will save a lot of time when freehanding. If you have an accurate centerline you can usually just eyeball the centering of the toe and heel pieces.

The bulk of what holds the binding to the ski is fibreglass reinforcement.
Yes the screws for ski bindings are self-tapping, but they will pull the top layers or the ski up as they screw in, which at best will leave you with mole hills round the top of the holes making it impossible to get the binding flat on the ski, or a spinner at worst.
So either push down HARD or better still, tap all the threads first, metal top sheet or not.
It will always give you a stronger mount.

That's a great explanation, and also worth repeating

The reason there are so many spinners on ski shop mounts is because the "tech" just fires up the screw shooter and goes "BRAAAAAAP", which is guaranteed to produce the results above. Frankly, I refuse to have my skis shop-mounted anymore.

[Ed el Loco]

I got a cheepo drill guide from home depot for $25 or something works ok with my cordless drill. Holes are not 100% perfect strait every time but are only off by a few degrees and I have not had any problems.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...5X-_-100349264

[Thebaldskiman]

If you plan on mounting your bindings yourself for more than just one or two pairs i would still recommend picking up a brand new bit. Sharper bits are better and at $15 you're still saving money over paying someone else to do it. The way i see it your first mount and buying all the needed bits/tolls is gonna cost *about* the same (depending on exactly what all you need) as paying someone else to do it. Then the second and on are where you really save money.

True, but i did say a few, maybe one. Still better than a bit of masking tape wrapped round your five-thirtysecond drill bit....

It would cost trillions of dollars........... The carrier is going ot be around for 30-40 years so there alone you have to keep the system alive for at least that long....................
but that is way off topic

I'm not sure what to say,,, that's an interesting logic.
You could use the money you were going to use to build the aircraft carrier to start changing the system...
Got to start somewhere.
But like you say, way OT.

[Vitamin I]

...Yes the screws for ski bindings are self-tapping, but they will pull the top layers or the ski up as they screw in, which at best will leave you with mole hills round the top of the holes making it impossible to get the binding flat on the ski, or a spinner at worst.
So either push down HARD or better still, tap all the threads first, metal top sheet or not...

I wish I had a tap, but I'm too cheap. So before I put the binding on the ski, I tap all the holes with a screw by hand, pushing down HARD, but I leave the bottom 1/3 of the hole untapped (I just have a gut feeling that a touch of self-tapping on the screw's final entry might make it hold tighter). You can see how much of a volcano you are getting on the first 1-2 holes, which tells you if you need to push down harder on the remaining holes. Then razor blade the volcanoes down to flat, then mount the binding by hand (pushing down HARD on the final 1/3 of the depth to ensure no new volcanoes).

.

[Thebaldskiman]

I leave the bottom 1/3 of the hole untapped (I just have a gut feeling that a touch of self-tapping on the screw's final entry might make it hold tighter)
.

Correct.
Some 2011 skis will recommend using a step bit.
3.6mm at the tip and 4.1mm at the base.
I have started using this type of bit for most mounts (that require a 4.1) as it makes more sense.