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Thread: Least stable snowpack in the US?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ectreeskier11 View Post
    I'm an avy jong, I know Utah's supposed to be fairly "safe" in relation to CO snowpacks, but less stable than maritime (I think I've got that right). Can anyone shed some light on the dangers/problems with an average Utah midwinter snowpack? And why? Just interested cuz I just got here.
    to start: take an avy level 1 course and ski with knowledgeable partners

  2. #27
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    it's small and easy to avoid, but tuckerman ravine in NH actually is extremely unstable after every *nearly* single frozen precip event. To those that are familiar with the topography of the ravine, it is an honest to god snow-loading-miracle the way it is oriented just downwind and below a massive alpine expanse that has some of the most reliably high winds in the country in winter. not to mention it has a boat load of funky layers to contend with every single season as new england goes through it's infamous thaw cycles right after epic pow... i doubt it's the *most* unstable, but should at least be included in the discussion.

    it claims very few experienced mount travellers lives though because it is so incredibly easy to get micro avy forecasts for, and is also incredibly easy to avoid. it slides super big a few times every year.
    "Whenever I get a massage, I ALWAYS request a dude." -lionelhutz

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  3. #28
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    I think it actually states somewhere in this book that the San Juans are "some of the most avalanche prone mountians in North America" . Don't know why I threw quotes in there because that's totally from memory but I definitely remember reading something of the sort

    "I reckon i'm one of the only people who could ski this line" says my drunk friend

  4. #29
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    JMF, I'm pretty sure the fall line on Hogan Bowl wouldn't take out A-Basin. However, the professor has taken out the parking lot in the past, and probably will again in the future.

    I'm pretty sure the fall line is wrong, but I've only been here a few seasons.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ectreeskier11 View Post
    I'm an avy jong, I know Utah's supposed to be fairly "safe" in relation to CO snowpacks, but less stable than maritime (I think I've got that right). Can anyone shed some light on the dangers/problems with an average Utah midwinter snowpack? And why? Just interested cuz I just got here.
    I agree with the guy who recommended you take a course. However, one feature of Utah's snowpack is that some years it behaves more like a maritime snowpack (generally the years when we get lots of snow, particularly if it's a warm wet winter) and some years it behaves more like a continental snowpack (cold drier winters). And some years it's just somewhere in between. In contrast to colorado, many years you actually can ski a lot of the terrain midwinter. In contrast to the pacific northwest, you have a higher chance of getting slid when you do decide to ski alpine terrian midwinter. The upside of our crowds is that you have lots of observations (usually posted on the interwebs) to assist in your evaluation.

    take a course. don't listen to anything I say.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiski View Post
    However, one feature of Utah's snowpack is that some years it behaves more like a maritime snowpack (generally the years when we get lots of snow, particularly if it's a warm wet winter) and some years it behaves more like a continental snowpack (cold drier winters). And some years it's just somewhere in between.
    like maybe an intermountain snowpack
    "Whenever I get a massage, I ALWAYS request a dude." -lionelhutz

    "You can't shave off stupid." -lionelhutz

    "I was hoping for ice." -lionelhutz

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgnar View Post
    JMF, I'm pretty sure the fall line on Hogan Bowl wouldn't take out A-Basin. However, the professor has taken out the parking lot in the past, and probably will again in the future.

    I'm pretty sure the fall line is wrong, but I've only been here a few seasons.

    Yeah, the prof can take out the the parking lot, and even most of the patrol shack... But when The Hog slides, you motherfuckers better watch out!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpetrics View Post
    it's small and easy to avoid, but tuckerman ravine in NH actually is extremely unstable after every *nearly* single frozen precip event. To those that are familiar with the topography of the ravine, it is an honest to god snow-loading-miracle the way it is oriented just downwind and below a massive alpine expanse that has some of the most reliably high winds in the country in winter. not to mention it has a boat load of funky layers to contend with every single season as new england goes through it's infamous thaw cycles right after epic pow... i doubt it's the *most* unstable, but should at least be included in the discussion.

    it claims very few experienced mount travellers lives though because it is so incredibly easy to get micro avy forecasts for, and is also incredibly easy to avoid. it slides super big a few times every year.


    ...but everyone here knows the east is flat

    Tucks headwall a few weeks ago:




  9. #34
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    Just throwin' it out there for you lovely dudes with gnarly ladies, She Jumps will be hosting a women's specific avalanche training before January. Will keep you guys posted. Basically, ski with women and you'll be a bit safer. But not in Colorado!!!

  10. #35
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    La Plata Canyon - San Juans

    Steep as hell and on the southern end of the Juans. Awesome terrain and ~20 mins from Durango, but hardly anybody skis it because of the sketch factor.

    I did an interview w/ Dolores LaChapelle about 5 years back and remember her saying that that canyon had more slides per square mile on average than any other in the Juans.

  11. #36
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    If we're talking state by state, Colorado is by far the most avalanche prone. Whether it is natural slides or those triggered by recreationists, Colorado is going to take the cake year after year.

    Generally, maritime is only dangerous directly after precipitation events. Most instabilities do no last very long.

    Continental has instabilities that can last an entire season.

    Intermountain is a mix of the two.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by telepariah View Post
    Well, Colorado has more terrain above 12,000 feet than any similar region and correspondingly higher winds.
    And wasn't the most fatal train-related avalanche in Washington anyway?
    Winds, though related to altitude have several other factors. Take for example the cascades and olympics. Though they are known for a much more stable snowpack than the rest of the continental ranges, the sheer quantity of snow that can move any given time is much higher than colorado. Think slough, huge wetslides, and even deep slabs.

    I know many places in cascades that probably see equal wind to that of the rockies (consider the relief and fetch of the ocean combined with the areas of differing pressure on the sides of the range), just with much less frequent travel due to difficulty of access. This can be counteracted by tons of moving snow.

    People in the PNW underestimate the instability of the snow. Yes, it is less likely to produce deep hard slabs, but the quantity of snow that falls combined with the terrain makes moving a lot of snow really really easy. Think shuksan arm on a pow day. It's probably not going to deep slab on you (though it might and has) but the slough will easily bury you 20 feet deep in a terrain trap.

    The avalanche that occurred in Steven's pass was the deadliest slide in US history. I think it killed like 35-40 people on the train line. If you're familiar with the terrain in the PNW this makes sense because of the HUGE relief and highly variable temperatures seen. It can snow 10 feet and then rain a foot on top of it. This amount of moving mass has destructive power not seen anywhere else in the continental US. I'm positive that there would be a lot more fatalities in the PNW if good weather and easy access like that of colorado allowed as many people to get into the dangerous alpine zones. The fact is, to get into the alpine in the winter in the pnw just isn't easy and as frequent as other places. It's just too damn gnarly.


    In sum, deep instability (colorado, utah, any intermountain west range) though dangerous isn't the only deciding factor in the deadliness of a snowpack. Sheer quantity of snow combined with frequency of travel are factors.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarnitty View Post
    She Jumps will be hosting a women's specific avalanche training before January.
    I'm just wondering what "women's specific avalanche training" would be...
    Living vicariously through myself.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by YetiMan View Post
    the high country of New Mexico has to be in the running.
    I'd concur with this. Has all the factors that make the San Juans so much fun (thin snow pack, high temperature gradients across the day, etc) and often more wind loading. Yummy!
    "I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary." -Yogi Berra

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTtoMST View Post
    Generally, maritime is only dangerous directly after precipitation events. Most instabilities do no last very long.

    Continental has instabilities that can last an entire season.

    Intermountain is a mix of the two.
    Have you thought about getting some stickers made? Maybe tee-shirts?

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  16. #41
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    based on my experience....the San Juans in CO. the whumping sent chills up my spine like nothing else. naturals ripping out a week+ after a storm...

  17. #42
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    colo's got my vote too
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  18. #43
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    San Juans are pretty damn bad...even when you are in the ski area boundaries. JONGS need not apply...look elsewhere. Sketch as hell. STAY AWAY!
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