Laterally stiff skis vs laterally soft ones?

[saddy]

This is the question I don't really have the answer to.
First of all, it's worth saying that a ski should be torsionally stiff and this is not a point for discussion.
Speaking about lateral stiffness the first idea that comes to mind is that the softer the ski is the more pleasant the experience.
A laterally soft ski (like say Obsethed) should absorb all the snow irregularities bringing very positive and easy ride. It should come over the obstacles thus decreasing the leg stress.
At the very same time stiffer skis (like say Dynastar Legend XXL) should literally kill your legs. They do not absorb anything and you feel every fucken knoll on the snow.
So the question is why all the decent guys over here prefer stiffel planks over the softer ones.

Thanks.

[Damian Sanders]

I believe you're talking about "longitudinal" stiffness. Or just stiffness.

Main reason - stiff skis are better at speed.

[adrenalated]

You are talking about longitudinal stiffness, not lateral stiffness.
Stiff skis get bounced if you are not driving them. The skis need active input from the skier to make them flex. However, if the skier is providing enough input, a stiffer ski will not ride over top of obstacles. It will plow through them. It will also be much more stable at high speed - a softer ski tends to wander or flap at high speeds.
So yes, stiffer skis are more tiring to ski since they need more input, but do offer performance benefits.

[Spats]

Soft skis can get bounced around too much by choppy snow conditions. If a ski is too soft, the tip and tail just flap around and don't do you any good. I'd rather have a ski of the proper stiffness, but too short, than a too-soft ski of the correct length.

Ski stiffness should be proportional to your weight and how fast you ski. Someone who weighs 150# needs a much softer ski than someone who skis the same speed but weighs 240#.

That being said, there are a lot of people here whose skis are much too stiff for them, because it's a badge of GNARNESS...just like owning 18 DIN bindings.

[pfluffenmeister]

That being said, there are a lot of people here whose skis are much too stiff for them, because it's a badge of GNARNESS...just like owning 18 DIN bindings.

^^^^^^ word.
also, your skis should be at least 2 sizes too large so as to impress the lady folk.

[stuckathuntermtn]

soft tip for float,
stiff tail for edge hold.










yeah i know, it's more complicated than that.

[AsheanMT]

I understand his question despite the syntactic error. I agree that soft is more fun and easy going i loved this about the S7. However, the stability of my stiff Bro's is unbeatable, even at mach looney in challenging conditions. Ideally, I have both the S7 for anything fresh and 3+" and my Bro for everything else. (btw the 164 Bro has a softer flexing tai, it releases from turns well and is forgiving if you step into the back seat)
Ash

[nickinbc]

That being said, there are a lot of people here whose skis are much too stiff for them, because it's a badge of GNARNESS...just like owning 18 DIN bindings.

You forgot to mention the too stiff boots...

[wcf3]

At least when talking soft snow (where edge hold isn't an issue) softer skis are more responsive to both 'control inputs' and to changing snow conditions. This can be a good or bad thing: Good if you can get quicker response without having to put as much work into 'driving' the skis. Bad if they end up surprising you by doing things you don't expect.

I tend to prefer stiffer skis, but I do know a number of folks who ski super aggressive lines at really high speed on what I would consider softer skis (hellbents, obsethed's, etc). In most cases I think that they just have better 'touch' and can anticpate snow conditions better than I'm able to. Bottom line, if you have the skills and finesse to use them, a softer ski can offer more performance. I don't have those skills, so I prefer stiffer skis that paper over my technical weaknesses.

[Jaxson]

I would like to add also that prior to rocker and early rise a little "softer" flexing ski was often preferred in softer/deeper snow. With the softer flex the ski would tend to float better with less tip dive. I have always preferred a stiffer ski so now in a way you can have the best of both worlds. A stiff ski with early rise and tip rocker really seems to be a good design IMO (Motherships, Megawatts, Shoots just to name a few).

[Meanfruit]

I tend to prefer stiffer skis, but I do know a number of folks who ski super aggressive lines at really high speed on what I would consider softer skis (hellbents, obsethed's, etc). In most cases I think that they just have better 'touch' and can anticpate snow conditions better than I'm able to. Bottom line, if you have the skills and finesse to use them, a softer ski can offer more performance. I don't have those skills, so I prefer stiffer skis that paper over my technical weaknesses.

I may be wrong,but this is the most humble and honest statement I've read here in a year.Out of thousands of skiers I see a year,a handful can actually load a ski the way it was designed to.Bode Miller,Mair,Ian MacIntosh,etc,they need race room skis.Myself and the vast majority of riders,not so much.Flame away.

[Damian Sanders]

I may be wrong,but this is the most humble and honest statement I've read here in a year.Out of thousands of skiers I see a year,a handful can actually load a ski the way it was designed to.Bode Miller,Mair,Ian MacIntosh,etc,they need race room skis.Myself and the vast majority of riders,not so much.Flame away.

Tons of people can't carve, and many carve without fully loading a ski. But anyone with decent race training should be able to bend a ski properly, race stock or not.

Many race stock skis aren't that stiff at all btw, some are softer than consumer models. Some are hard to ski on, some are not. There are lots of people on them not skiing them to their potential.

[marshalolson]

super overly generally stated, if you can properly bend a ski and load it well, you don't need *as stiff* of a ski because you are using the torsional rigidity to keep the ski quite and carving. if you suck and can't bend a ski, then you need a longitudinally stiffer ski to prevent "chatter" ie forcing the ski across the fall line with sharp edges while the ski is flat.

comparing ian mac or bodie to this is retarded unless you are either pointing 5000 vert 50deg faces with numerous 50+ foot drops or skiing 70mph on a wc dh course. their level of skiing is so significantly beyond what 99.999% of the people on tgr are doing that it bears no need of mention.

[uncle crud]

if you suck and can't bend a ski, then you need a longitudinally stiffer ski to prevent "chatter" ie forcing the ski across the fall line with sharp edges while the ski is flat.

the chatter you describe is not a function of the ski as much as it is a function of the skier giving it too much pressure and/or edge angle (probably too much of both).

bending a ski happens for sucky skiers when they haul ass, that's why it's so fucking dangerous for a hack gaper to get on a stiff ski, he has to get mach-ing to make it work and at that speed he has no clue what to do -- his speed is doing the work, not his skill.

I ski with people like that occasionally. they can't do shit at slow speeds. not that slow is great -- it's not, not for fun-ness. but slow reveals flaws.

I assume that any person who grew up chasing sticks with a race coach's guidance is able to bend a ski. I'm not talking about those people.

[saddy]

It looks like it's one of the few occasions on TGR when a question gets good answers.
Thanks you guys for the informative discussion.

[Townicus]

I just fumbled across this thread....it is a good one, and I would like to keep it going. I have been on stiffer skis most of my life (LP's XXl, Squads, Stocklis) and lately have preferred softer skis as I have become a better skier. Last year I skied on 191 scott p4's and just pulled trigger on 189 hellbents. Some of the best skiers I have seen and ski with are on noodles. Interesting when you think at times it would be opposite.

[justAskier]

Hey, Townicus.
I think it all depends upon what sorta conditions you ski. I can't imagine those better skiers skiing (and enjoying while doing so) noodles in hard crust/crud conditions. Of course if you ski all the time at Alta you could have a lot of fun with say Hellbent but come on, spend the whole season in the Alps on a pair of them and I dare ya.

And it also depends on the skier's style. If I like straightlines or big hucks I wouldn't choose a noodle either. It seems to be that most of the guys you ski with are jibbers or ski tight powdery trees all the time.

[Townicus]

Hey, Townicus.
I think it all depends upon what sorta conditions you ski. I can't imagine those better skiers skiing (and enjoying while doing so) noodles in hard crust/crud conditions. Of course if you ski all the time at Alta you could have a lot of fun with say Hellbent but come on, spend the whole season in the Alps on a pair of them and I dare ya.

Well said. I guess my point is, it must to some degree come down to preference. I ski in Colorado, so our snow is quite good, but I still have seen a few guys around here on old Made N's, hellbents, and sanouks kill it even when it gets tracked. I mean kill it too. Straight mach through chop.

[D(C)]

It takes more skill to ski a soft ski. I am comfortable going bigger on my Salomon Rockers, which provide the stability to land in pretty much any imbalance, than I am on my S7s, which basically force you to stomp on the short section of the ski touching the snow. But then there are guys in movies on 188 S7s going way bigger than I ever will on any ski, and using the agility of the S7s to throw in tricks that would result in my untimely demise.

I guess the bottom line is that long, stiff skis are a crutch that make skiing in certain challenging conditions and terrain accessible to people with somewhat decent skills. However, stability is not the be-all end-all of a ski's performance, even for one that will be used primarily in open terrain. People with great skills will bring agility into the equation and will be able to do more than spending their days straight-lining through skied out pow.

Townicus, enjoy the 'Bents!