ski shops scared to set DIN settings - wtf?

**TooShort** · 03-09-2009, 04:21 PM

Is it common for a ski shop to sell and mount up a ski package and then to not set the proper DIN setting or torque test the new binding? I just purchased a set of touring bindings and after paying for them I was told that I'll have to set the DIN myself. Not a big deal - but I find it difficult to believe that a ski shop is selling equipment they don't trust enough to properly set the DIN setting. I hope someone sets me straight with reasons why - I just don't understand it. I worked in a ski shop for years and there was no way we would send a set of skis out that had not been properly fit and tested. If this is what I have to look forward to, I'll be installing my own bindings.

**skifishbum** · 03-09-2009, 04:26 PM

welcome to the world of liability
Beats me why anybody with the skill to mount their own bindings would pay for it

**gr8fldoug** · 03-09-2009, 04:29 PM

If you "worked in a shop for years" what's the big deal. Set it yourself and go. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin.
There's probably some legal aspect ot it, involving the make of the binding and the technician. But I have no idea what equip or shop you're talking about.

**TooShort** · 03-09-2009, 04:37 PM

good points, I would always trust a jig mount more than my measure once drill twice technique. It just found it strange that a ski shop wouldn't adjust bindings I purchased from them.

**SkiED** · 03-09-2009, 04:42 PM

I know rei wont set at dins because they arent din certified. Which means having rubber at soles and at bindings arent set to the same din qualifications as regular alpine equipment, which means they dont want the liability.

**adam** · 03-09-2009, 04:47 PM

I just don't understand how a shop wouldn't want to set something that could potentially break someones leg!

**TooShort** · 03-09-2009, 04:53 PM

I guess it comes down to those people that would actually sue someone for helping them have a good time. If I break my leg, then I broke it doing something I shouldn't have. Lawyers rule the free world.

**El Chupacabra** · 03-09-2009, 04:53 PM

I have had two separate ski shops tell me that they will not set DINs on AT bindings, when set with AT boots, because of inconsistent release settings with the vibram soles.

I set my AT binding toes (8) at a lower DIN than my alpine bindings (9); I set the heels the same (9) on both. YMMV.

**rideit** · 03-09-2009, 04:55 PM

It's simple, thank your local lawyer.
Basically, the shop tech needs to be 'certified' by the binding manufacturer in order to be covered, chances are the tech wasn't. There are series of tests that techs need to take. This includes older binding that are out of indemnification. We would just hand the customer a screwdriver...but in this day and age, I bet even THAT could get you sued.

**TooShort** · 03-09-2009, 04:55 PM

great - thanks for the info and advice.

**AsheanMT** · 03-09-2009, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by adam

I just don't understand how a shop wouldn't want to set something that could potentially break someones leg!

Because we (the ski shop) DON'T WANT TO TAKE LIABILITY FOR A NON DIN STANDARD.

You live in the United Lawsuit of America and if we set your DIN and you go out and break your leg you can then sue us claiming we did it wrong. If we write down on the paperwork that we mounted the binding but did not set the DIN or test it and then make you aware of that and sign it then you can't sue us when you break your leg.

Although, you could probably still find some sort of loophole with which to sue us.

**brice618** · 03-09-2009, 05:02 PM

I am "marker certified" for marker bindings. So I'm guessing there is a cert for other demo bindings. It's really not rocket science, but yeah, people are afraid of litigation, understandably so. Our shop only uses markers though so no other certs required for that. I hate sue happy people. Meh.

**Art Shirk** · 03-09-2009, 05:24 PM

If anyone had a shop set their DIN for them and subsequently injured themselves, please PM Rontele.

**toast2266** · 03-09-2009, 05:34 PM

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but if the shop doesn't set the DIN and someone breaks their leg because their ski popped off and they hit a tree, the shop is going to get sued. If the shop sets the DIN according to a DIN chart, at least they'll be joined in the lawsuit by the binding manufacturer.

**Capatain** · 03-09-2009, 05:53 PM

I know that in the past several of the euro AT binding companies (fritschi, naxo, dynafit) would not indemnify shop techs. It isn't an issue in europe, so they didn't see the point. that is beginning to change, but many shops probably haven't gotten the news, or taken the time to certify their techs.

**Blurred** · 03-09-2009, 05:57 PM

I blame Irul&Ublo.

Not only for practicing liability laws, but for the success of gay porn.

**Kied** · 03-09-2009, 06:37 PM

What a bunch of pussies. Further reason more shops will go out of business. Not because they're going to get sued, but rather they're lazy. For one, how long are they going to be able to sell shit, only to have their customers take it to another more qualified shop for mount/adjust/test before those customers don't come back anymore? Secondly, It doesn't take but a fifth graders education to pass the indemnification tests, save for maybe Atomic - which has always been a bitch. Third, if they were actually doing the mount but lacked the confidence in doing the final adjustments I would really begin to question the skill of the techs and the quality of the mount itself.

I'd go somewhere else in the future.

**Jax** · 03-09-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by kiedaisch

What a bunch of pussies. Further reason more shops will go out of business. Not because they're going to get sued, but rather they're lazy. For one, how long are they going to be able to sell shit, only to have their customers take it to another more qualified shop for mount/adjust/test before those customers don't come back anymore? Secondly, It doesn't take but a fifth graders education to pass the indemnification tests, save for maybe Atomic - which has always been a bitch. Third, if they were actually doing the mount but lacked the confidence in doing the final adjustments I would really begin to question the skill of the techs and the quality of the mount itself.

I'd go somewhere else in the future.

You are misinformed.

AT bindings are not equal to alpine bindings

Indemnification tests for shop employees don't exist for any AT binders sold stateside. Every single shop I have managed or worked in will not set DIN on an AT binding. On occasion, I would show the customer how to do it. And even then, we still made them sign a waiver.

ASTM tests for AT aren't recognized as there is no set standard. That's why most shops will not set DIN on AT bindings. This is not uncommon practice here folks. If you do find a shop that says they'll do it for you, know that they are using the standards set for alpine bindings, not AT. More than likely, the shop has no idea of the liability that exists if they DO do it for you.

It takes two fucking minutes to adjust binders, set your own din.

**stihletto** · 03-09-2009, 07:12 PM

does anyone on here leave their bindings on the shop setting anyway?

**Tye 1on** · 03-09-2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I have had two separate ski shops tell me that they will not set DINs on AT bindings, when set with AT boots, because of inconsistent release settings with the vibram soles.

I set my AT binding toes (8) at a lower DIN than my alpine bindings (9); I set the heels the same (9) on both. YMMV.

bingo

Originally Posted by Jax

You are misinformed.

AT bindings are not equal to alpine bindings

Indemnification tests for shop employees don't exist for any AT binders sold stateside. Every single shop I have managed or worked in will not set DIN on an AT binding. On occasion, I would show the customer how to do it. And even then, we still made them sign a waiver.

ASTM tests for AT aren't recognized as there is no set standard. That's why most shops will not set DIN on AT bindings. This is not uncommon practice here folks. If you do find a shop that says they'll do it for you, know that they are using the standards set for alpine bindings, not AT. More than likely, the shop has no idea of the liability that exists if they DO do it for you.

It takes two fucking minutes to adjust binders, set your own din.

and double bingo

**Driver** · 03-09-2009, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by SkiED

I know rei wont set at dins because they arent din certified. Which means having rubber at soles and at bindings arent set to the same din qualifications as regular alpine equipment, which means they dont want the liability.

Not true- just had some bindings mounted there. They have a waiver you initial, like most shops, that mitigates their liability.

You can't pick your DIN, but you can ask them what the variables (skiier type, weight, height) translate into in terms of DIN setting. If it sounds low, you can alter your height and weight (assuming you already have type III skier) to increase and initial it.

**rideit** · 03-09-2009, 07:46 PM

To sum up:

Don't trust shops that WILL set your AT DIN.
Because that is a JONG shop.

(What about Dukes, BTW?)

**skierhj** · 03-09-2009, 08:03 PM

Dukes with an alpine but yes, but with an AT boot, no.

In the US people like to sue. So far there is no reliable way to "test" an AT boot in any binding for consistent release. And the AT binding manufacturers don't want to get into any sort of indemnification since those binding are generally used with AT boots. No reliable test = no indemnification. Most shops make a point to explain to the customer that they've not set the bindings and cannot guarantee the settings.

**old goat** · 03-09-2009, 08:05 PM

To the lawyers amongst us: do shops really get sued successfully? I would assume that unless they really screwed up the mount--maybe they mount the bindings with hot melt glue instead of screws--they would protected by the same inherent-risk-of-the-sport laws that protect ski areas.
As far as I'm concerned if you can't adjust it you shouldn't sell it. BTW I set my own DIN's but I don't feel the need to insult someone who doesn't feel comfortable doing it.

**Kied** · 03-09-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jax

You are misinformed.

AT bindings are not equal to alpine bindings

Indemnification tests for shop employees don't exist for any AT binders sold stateside. Every single shop I have managed or worked in will not set DIN on an AT binding. On occasion, I would show the customer how to do it. And even then, we still made them sign a waiver.

ASTM tests for AT aren't recognized as there is no set standard. That's why most shops will not set DIN on AT bindings. This is not uncommon practice here folks. If you do find a shop that says they'll do it for you, know that they are using the standards set for alpine bindings, not AT. More than likely, the shop has no idea of the liability that exists if they DO do it for you.

It takes two fucking minutes to adjust binders, set your own din.

Agree and disagree. First off, I should have stated that I was not solely referring to AT. There are plenty of shops that don't even test/adjust for pure alpine setups. As far as AT, there's no reason why a shop cannot adjust the forward pressure and based on the skiers info, set DIN according to alpine standards if the customer signs a waiver - which you would do anyway. Who has more education in working on bindings? The shop or the customer? Should be the shop. Testing (although not recognized) can be done on some AT bindings (with an alpine boot) as a precaution.... not as a means of protection.

Every shop I've been with we've definitely covered our asses, but at the same time tried to assist the customer as much as possible.

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