AWD

[MCskid]

Can someone tell me the difference between real and fake awd? And does anyone know when subaru made the switch from fake to real?

[JET123]

What do you call fake vs. real???

[Snow Dog]

I call Honda CRV's system "fake AWD". The system is FWD and the computer decides when to engage the rear wheels. It's a traction aid and there's no ability to engage AWD when you're on a loose surface and want all the wheels working. I'm not even sure it's AWD -- it might be 4WD with a center clutch but no center diff.

As far as I know Subaru has always been AWD but automatic and manual transmissions use a different center differential.

[huge-go]

Subaru, and if I'm not mistaken Audi's quattro system is all wheel drive. This is 4 wheel drive, 100% of the time. Most other compaines 4wd is a system where the front wheels have to start slipping in order for for the rear wheels to engage. Some companies have a a system where you can just push a button to override the system and go into 4wd. The disadvantage with 4wd drive is that sometimes, once people lose control, they'll just get off the accelerator and slam on the brakes, and the only way the 4wd drive will engage is if you are accelerating when the slippage occurs. Obvious disadvantage with awd, fuel economy.

[L7]

I call Honda CRV's system "fake AWD". The system is FWD and the computer decides when to engage the rear wheels. It's a traction aid and there's no ability to engage AWD when you're on a loose surface and want all the wheels working. I'm not even sure it's AWD -- it might be 4WD with a center clutch but no center diff.

As far as I know Subaru has always been AWD but automatic and manual transmissions use a different center differential.

Somehow with the automatic it has the ability (I think) to put power bias to the front wheels which the manual doesn't. You can disengage the AWD by pulling a fuse on the auto but not the manual as well.

As snow dog says Honda realtime (aka fake) AWD cuts out the second axle at 30 km/hr or something. I don't care as much about pulling off a light fast as I care about staying on a curved road at 80 or 100 km.

[MultiVerse]

Top Gear Australia sucks but this video (watch two minutes in) does demonstrate why pseudo all-wheel-drive fails under certain conditions (the new VW / Audi A3 Haldex systems are actually pretty good) versus the real AWD Audi & Subaru have. Better yet, it makes a strong case for snow tires. I’d rather have two wheel drive and snows rather than AWD and all seasons… it goes without saying that AWD + snows is the way to go.



Subaru also uses two different systems one for cars equipped with manual transmissions and one for automatics.

[dumpy]

Subaru also uses two different systems one for cars equipped with manual transmissions and one for automatics.

I'm pretty sure the difference is in the power transfer ratio (if thats the right phrase), in other words how much torque the front gets vs the rear. I'm pretty sure the automatic version is more biased to the front than the standard which is more balanced.

I could also be completely full of shit, but my GF just bought a Subaru (hope she doesn't switch teams now) and I'm pretty sure thats what the dealer told us.

[MultiVerse]

I'm pretty sure the difference is in the power transfer ratio (if thats the right phrase), in other words how much torque the front gets vs the rear. I'm pretty sure the automatic version is more biased to the front than the standard which is more balanced.

I could also be completely full of shit, but my GF just bought a Subaru (hope she doesn't switch teams now) and I'm pretty sure thats what the dealer told us.

Both systems are first rate when it comes to AWD but the cars equipped with automatics utilize more electronics versus a more mechanical system on the manuals.

Continuous All-Wheel Drive Models equipped with 5-speed manual transmission utilize a viscous-type locking center differential with torque distribution normally configured at a 50/50-split front-to-rear. If wheel speed differs between front and rear axles, the system helps distribute power to the wheels with the most traction.

Active All-Wheel Drive Models equipped with 4-speed automatic transmission utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch to distribute power to where traction is needed. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage, throttle position and braking, to help determine torque distribution and direct it to the wheels with optimum traction.

[Snow Dog]

Much as I enjoy ignorant speculation -- SubaruAWD.pdf

Subaru has four AWD systems:
1. Center Diff with limited slip
2. Active Torque Split (multi-plate transfer clutch)
3. Variable Torque Distribution
4. Driver Controlled Center Differential

[L7]

Much as I enjoy ignorant speculation -- SubaruAWD.pdf

Maybe not quite as much as I enjoy condescending smugness wrapped in sarcasm.

[Snow Dog]

I was about to launch into my own speculation when I thought: "why don't I try this Google search thingy in the corner". Worked great.

And to add to that; some car makers (e.g. Subaru, Jeep) provide a lot of detail on their 4WD/AWD systems. Other car makers are more coy. While researching small SUVs the user forums are full of "I think the AWD works like this" because the manufacturer isn't talking.

[JET123]

I have a cousin who knows this girl who dated this guy that lived in yurt that had a birdhouse where a wise owl lived that wisely said a manual subi has an almost 50/50 distribution of power where an auto subi is something in the realm of 60/40 or 70/30 biased to the rear.

But WTF do I know other than I feel waaaay more planted and connected with my 5sp subi + Hankooks than I ever did with my auto 4Runner V6 + numerous tire purchases.

That's some useful chit there

[SuperChief]

real snow cars have manuals

[karpiel]

A couple seem confused.

awd is not 4wd.

[MultiVerse]

Real cars have manual transmissions

Fixed it for you

[BSS]

Subarus used to be 4WD up until around 1986. Now they have VTD and ATS AWD, with their high end models having DCCD, and a few here and there over the years which are FWD. There is no fake or real AWD. Do you have any more retarded questions we can help with?

[BSS]

Oh. Yeah.

Lokks like Snow Dog already got it.

[XXX-er]

http://www.hondacarindia.com/CRV/Technology/Real.aspx

its front wheel drive with the rear wheel drive kicking in when its needed ,sounds like it's more like a mini van than a 4x4 so do you need real 4x4 ?

realtime might be good on the highway and shitty for real 4x4 ing ...but how many people that buy them do that?

[MCskid]

Subarus used to be 4WD up until around 1986. Now they have VTD and ATS AWD, with their high end models having DCCD, and a few here and there over the years which are FWD. There is no fake or real AWD. Do you have any more retarded questions we can help with?

Yes, one more retarded question, why do you have 5,075 posts? all in a little over 3 years.

[mach.850]

Without looking at the internet I would say that my 5-sp Subie is something different than 50-50. How else can you kick out the back end so easy (ala RWD) on snow/ice?

[ill-advised strategy]

real snow cars have manuals

wtf are you talking about?

[Utarded]

I'd like to take this opportunity to pop in here and say that Fake AWD (ala Subaru, Honda, etc.) S.U.C.K.S.... at least for some types of driving. Like mine.

With the combination of 4 studded snow tires and manual 4WD, I never got stuck with my ford escape, chevy trailblazer, or dodge ram. However, since getting a fake 4wd Honda CRV, I've slid off the road twice (at LESS THAN 10 mph) and also had to be winched out of parking lot snowbanks on two separate occasions. I really despise AWD. I'll never buy a car with it again.

I don't care how many times per second each computerized AWD axle checks for slippage. If the wheels are turning, and the car is moving forward, I found out that the computer thinks everything is running smoothly and won't give full power to all 4 wheels to traction you out of very slippery situations.

I'll just warn anybody who is thinking of buying a car with AWD instead of 4WD. Check around with people who have owned/compared both before you buy.

[ill-advised strategy]

if you can't drive in snow with an awd subaru, you suck at driving.

[hemas]

IBlaa, blaa and blaa

You sure it was the car and AWD system... rather than tires.

[BSS]

Yes, one more retarded question, why do you have 5,075 posts? all in a little over 3 years.

Because I'm the moderator here. Don't make me beat you with the bannage stick.