beta on moving to Hilo, Hawaii?

[Jumper Bones]

Possible relocation - I've been offered a position with the FAA as an Air Traffic Controller at Hilo, Hawaii (on the Big Island). Basically I have until this coming Friday to accept or turn down the position...the short and skinny of it is, I've been working in the airlines for the last year and a half, it pays dick and always will, so I started applying for ATC positions this past summer. Finally took the test in december just before xmas, and now I have an offer.

I've also applied some other places, and had Aspen CO strongly in mind - I've visited the town and the airfield/tower and could make that as a home - but I haven't had the same employment offer as strongly yet from Aspen as I got here with this Hilo deal. If I accept Hilo then Aspen is off the table, and while I can turn Hilo down and hold out for a possible Aspen slot, turning down a job in this economy, and at my current pay rate...

So now I'm looking at Hilo. Good news is it's not super-high-end resort town, seems to be actually somewhat affordable - starting ATC pay is about 40k, plus locality pays/signing bonuses - and from what i can see here on the internet it's a world away from Honolulu/Waikiki, more rural, etc. Yes there's lousy skiing on a volcano - 200 vert feet of suckage. Wheee!!!

I'm having to look at the larger package - if I move I have a lot of crap to either sell or ship over, car, motorcycle, furniture...girlfriend may or may not come with, but it'd be nice if she could get solid work (she works HR/temp staffing/corporate management, so could probably work in Hotel/Resort management easily). I'd have to sell my guns - my AK is not welcome, so I'm told - and house pets have to go through some kind of quarantine? Yes the lack of skiing would suck, but how much mountain biking is there? 4-wheeling? Are the locals racist dicks and would living there as a gringo totally suck? Oh and from when I finish ATC school in OKC I have 8 days to get all up and moved from Bozeman MT, and be in-place and report in...kind of a full plate.

Aspen, while not a definite at all yet, is more than a shot in the dark. I have a very influential contact who arranged my facility tour of Aspen while I was there a couple months back, and due to the high cost of living in ASE turnover tends to be high - so it's easy to get slots in there, and it's a great medium-volume field with seasonal spikes in traffic volume so you can build your experience and succeed in your training. From what I understand so far, ATC OJT requirements tend to be pretty high and washing out is easy to do in a high-volume place - once you wash out you're understandably out of a job/paycheck - so you need to go to a facility where you can train at a reasonable pace and grow as a controller. Anyway, problem is with Aspen there isn't a firm offer like there is for Hilo just yet, I can wait around more and probably eventually get it, just how long do I want to live in poverty now? I've already waited 7 months.

BTW I'd have to take Hilo sight unseen, I can't make it to Hawaii and back reliably over my weekend...

Any input? I'd really like to hear what living in the area's like, people's experiences, etc. I have yet to make it off of Oahu, been there a couple times but nowhere else. Really dig the quieter more rural areas of Oahu so that's why I think this could work.

Thanks in advance.

[leroy jenkins]

I'm guessing your desire to move to Hilo is in no small part influenced by your lifelong dream to train as a cagefighter with BJ Penn?

I'll hold onto all your guns if you want.

[filthyfrenchbum]

I've never been to Hawaii but was born and raised on a tropical island, and what I gathered is that islands are small. Sure you can fly to the continent easily, but the lack of cosmopolitanism, culture, and all that stuff would definitely get to me after a couple of years.

Holiday weather and location is nice for a while, then gets boring. There you won't have the freedom to take a car and drive for a couple of hours to somewhere completely different.

[XtrPickels]

Kinda a tough situation there Gabe.
Does the girl know about the offer? What does she think?
Can you get more inside info on Aspen via your connection.
Is the turnover at Aspen due to the high price of living?
Would you be in a different situation than you are now financially, just a different location?

Nothing is permanent. I'm all for suggesting people try living somewhere totally new to them. I took a chance when I moved west and it turned out to be great. I'm east now and it blows, but I'm benefiting and I'll find a way to make it back.

If the girl is into it and you'll be making solid money while exploring a new and probably pretty sweet place, I say go for it.
If you have to leave the girl behind and don't want to do that, and you aren't excited about getting to check out a tropical location then hold out.

I could understand leaving the mountains for some place ghey like arkansas, but Hawaii could be just as enchanting as Montana in its own way.

[emtnate]

Never been there or lived there myself. However, my sister and her husband were stationed at Hickam AFB and lived across the bay in Pearl City. I'm sure living in the greater Honolulu area is much different than the big island. They didn't care for it the 3 years they lived there. Racism against non-natives was a big problem, and not just because they were military people. It was even as bad as native police officers not helping white people, or vice versa, with natives not wanting help / medical care, teachers, from white people. They also said traffic was a big problem on Oahu. Accidents around the city could halt traffic for hours, with no other routes to the rest of the island. She started kayaking to work because of this. She also got bored with the 70 degree, sunny days all the time. She is also a meteorologist, so I'm sure that has something to do with the boredom.

They did say the big island was beautiful and very different from Oahu. It's hard to say what your experience would be like.

Good luck.

[char]

I've been living in Hilo since the beginning of December. I'll be here for another few months.

It isn't bad in it's own way. Learner surf spot 5 mins from downtown. Other surfing opportunities around the island. There is plenty to do here if you are into:

Surfing, sailing, kayaking, paddling, boating, fishing (shore or offshore), hunting (feral pigs, sheep and goats), hiking. People do go up and ski Mauna Kea but don't think you are going to get blower pow.

Hilo is ~40,000 people so it's not exactly rural. But you can get rural pretty quick if you want. It's a different culture that isn't always 100% friendly to haoles, but I find most people to be pleasant and laid back. The weather isn't bad. Go to the other side of the island and it will be sunny 90% of the time.

Expect sticker shock at the grocery store ($4.00 for a gallon of milk, $7.00 for a 1/2 of OJ). Add $1 to mainland gas prices.

It costs ~75 bucks to get to another island so you can go to Honolulu and see shows.

It's not for me and I miss the snow, but I'm glad I at least spent some time on the island.

More later.

[iceman]

I've never been to Hawaii, or been an ATC, but how bad could it suck?

If it was me I'm already there looking for a place to live.

[ak_powder_monkey]

theres skiing there

[Tippster]

theres skiing there

Stable snowpack too, I gather.

Jumper - I have never heard anyone bitch about having lived in Hawaii. Just sayin'.

[Jeffro]

Went to college there...UHH Hilo...

Overall, not a bad place in the late 90's. Small town, definitiely will be in a minority if you're a white dude. That being said, I surfed all the time and never got hassled...sort of a local haole (as much as any college kid can be a local). I found the vibe in the water to be very similar to a mountain with a strong local vibe...You have to be mellow and know your place for a while before people warm up.

Pros:
Weather - temp around 70's all the time
Ocean - Surfing, kayaking, sailing, fishing
Outdoors - Hiking, some mountain biking, leave the skis with a friend on the mainland and visit in the winter...
Cost of living - cheaper than the rest of Hawaii
People - Mostly cool as long as you don't act like a douche

Cons:
Weather - Hilo is the rainest city in the US, I think it rains like 160 inches a year. Get used to doing shit in the rain...
Cost of living - It's cheaper than the rest of Hawaii, but still as expensive as shit compared to most of the mainland
People - mostly cool, but Hilo had (not sure if it still does) a huge meth problem, super high teen pregnancy rates, and a lot of what I would call a Cholo culture...be prepared
Distance - 6 hours minimum to LA, 10 to east coast. Not sure if you have family, etc. but spending a shit ton of money and a lot of time will certainly limit how much you visit your friends / family. After the first year don't plan on them visiting much either..
"Hawaii attitude" - it is really charming when you're on vacation and you go the store at 4 pm and see a sign that says "closed early, gone fishing (surfing, etc). It fucking sucks when you are trying to get shit done (say on the house or something) and you run to the store which should be open and it's closed...After two years I found myself muttering "fucking Hawaii" under my breath a lot the last few months I was there. Maybe I'm too type A personality.
Raising kids - my wife and I met there (she's from Oregon, was there on a v-ball scholarship). We've talked about moving back but the biggest factor is that I think it would be really hard raising a haole (white) kid in Hawaii, and in Hilo in particular. If you're thinking about a permanent move and bringing your significant other, that starts to factor in. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think a white kid would suffer a little bit growing up there.

So take it for what it's worth. I lived there from 96 -99...things may have changed. I loved living there, but I'm not sure if I loved it because I was a college student with no responsiblity, a hot girlfriend, drank a lot of beer and surfed all the time, or if I loved it because it was Hilo...I suspect I loved it in spite of it being Hilo..

- J

[acostiga]

a friend of mine from pittsburgh just had his wedding near hilo, so although i was only there for maybe a week i can offer some input/photos. here is a look from the airplane:



the flight to hilo from honalulu wasn't bad, less than an hour. after seeing how relatively large that first stop was, hilo seemed much smaller and laid back. from what i remember, they're in the process of fixing the air conditioning at the airport.



the view from our house rental, which was in the hawaii paradise park subdivision. we stayed in this place that was maybe 20 minutes outside of hilo, towards pahoa. check it out on google maps, this paradise park subdivision. it was like a grid of neigbhorhood-style roads. i guess up until a real estate boom in the 90's, the lots were super-cheap. anyhow, black lava rock that ran right up against the ocean.

hilo had a slow and casual feel to it, and the downtown area wasn't very overbuilt or fancy at all. lots of the buildings were older and sort of looked worn down. just north of the downtown, we visited a public spot named 'boiling pots'. i guess they're lava tubes/flows that really go nuts when the rainwater is rushing through them. they were calm when we visited, and there were some awesome hucking opportunities.



volcanos national park is outside of hilo, and is pretty amazing. friends and i did a four/five mile hike to the bottom of this lava flow, which was part of the kilauea caldera. walking around down on the surface of that flow was like being on another planet.



this is where the godess pele lives, the caldera. we weren't allowed to hike right up to the thing like in years past, but that was fine with my friends because they were all cold. it's windy and cold up there at higher elevations! being that i live in whitefish, i was prepared with far too much colder-weather stuff. they laughed at me when i had my puffy coat out at breakfast one morning- but were jealous when we were up at the national park. that volcano gas is something that causes people headaches at times, i think it's called 'vog'.



this is looking towards one of the main drags in hilo, with the ocean/bay behind the camera. i did have a bunch of stuff stolen from a rental jeep later from this same location. i guess it's common for rental jeeps with canvas tops to be slashed/rifled through. we also had trouble at the boiling pots parking lot, where the only other people there were two young hawaiian girls. they were friendly with us, and made small talk as they sipped their smoothies- but left before we were ready to quit jumping off of the cliffs into those beautiful pools of water. anyhow, when we got back to our cars (which stupidly had the tops down), the remainder of the smoothies those girls had been drinking was thrown all over the interior of our two rental jeeps. i was told this is quite common, so don't drive anything too nice or leave the top down



this beach was very close to downtown, maybe five minutes away. not a huge anti-white person feel, but not exactly a huge welcome either. i think you'll probably run into less attitude once you are more local and understand the lay of the land. as idiot, pasty-white tourons we stuck out quite a bit.





the hilo farmers market was an awesome event, and there were lots of flowers. lots of food as well, produce and basically a big weekly event for folks. if you decide to go, please let me know and i'll forward along a great guidebook that i have specifically for the big island.



the bridal pair, on the morning of the ceremony. it was also a steelers game day.

we drove down to the waipio valley one day, which is maybe an hour or two drive north of hilo. this is were the guy on the hawaii state quarter used to chill. it's one of the most beautiful places i've ever been.







this last shot was as the airplane was leaving the hilo bay area.....



anyhow, if i think you should go for it. having established that, you should be prepared for a very different sort of experience. as mentioned, stuff in the grocery store is expensive. beer is expensive. there's a huge, active volcano. from what i understand, there is about a 100 percent chance that eventually hilo will be overtaken by lava. you might run into some friction now and then if you're not darker-skinned. there was a mix of japanese, chinese, islander, etc.

but basically, it's an amazing and exotic place. you should take the opportunity to live there at least for a while. and it's part of the united states! that will amaze you once you experience some of the differences, and help you appreciate some of the things that are similiar. the wedding was held there because the bride has an aunt who lives in hilo. i could probably put you in touch, through a degree of separation or two, with some folks who have lived there for decades and could help with sorting things out.

pm me with an address to where i can forward you that big island guide book.

[Mott the Hoople]

Do it till you just can't anymore then move on. Jeez, it's Hawaii.

[Mathematics]

aspen > hilo. especially if you're a white boy.

[char]

Occasionally someone will huck into the wrong spot at the Boiling Pots and get sucked into a lava tube. Same for a few places along the coast.

acostiga- That surf spot is called Honoli'i.


Make sure you buy a high clearance 4x4 to access more of the island.

Weather: 70-75 50% chance of rain....every day. Wait 5 mins and it will change.

If I were you and I was on that timeline I would try to negotiate something along the lines of a visit to see if it is for you. Or just wait for a slot at Aspen to open up.

If you do decide to do it, people buy/rent shipping containers and put everything they own in them and ship them over.

Going from the Western US to an Island you can drive around in 3 hours got really old, really quick for me. Bozeman to Hilo will be a big change. I've lived both places. I enjoyed Bozeman far more.

[Obstruction]

Can you transfer around to a location that suits you better after you've been there a while or is this a life decision? A year in HI sounds pretty survivable to me, forty not so much.

[BSS]

I highly recommend it as a vacation spot, but I couldn't recommend a worse place to live.

It's great and I think everyone should chase their dreams and all that jazz, but realistically after the honeymoon period wears off it's damn tough to assimilate and get into a normal daily routine where you're comfortable. It's a different world entirely, and it's very difficult - especially for a white dude with a type A personality (ie: you.) I mean, you've gotta consider HI was basically a third world country up until about 50 years ago so in most aspects, it's still in its infancy as a state. There are a lot of things that go on there that will just seriously leave you dumbfounded.

The most familiar thing I could compare it to for someone who has never lived there is to picture yourself living on an indian reservation. Ask yourself how well that would work out for you?

Edit to add: sweet pics acostiga.

[Tye 1on]

[minithreadjack] There was a short news story on NPR last week or so about the soon to be shortage of ATC's. That when Reagan did whatever he did, toss the union out? That they hired a bunch of folks then, at the same time, who are all retiring....about now. And, if i had to guess, given the economy i bet a bunch of agencies gov't wide will be doing 'early outs', to reduce their current payroll expense.

So....imho, not knowing the FAA at all [but always having the inseat radio tuned to the flight channel when flying], I'd say if you get in now you'll have a good chance of moving up faster in 3-5 years; and if you pass on Hilo, there will be other opportunities soon in a place with better skiing.

[/minithreadjack]

[Jumper Bones]

Thank you very much for the input/comments so far everyone - please keep them coming.

BSS you hit the nail right on the head with the Indian Res comment. My girlfriend grew up in Polson, MT, which is at the northern end of the Flathead Indian Reservation. Another good friend of ours grew up on the Fort Peck Indian Res, at the other end of the state...I had my girlfriend read through the comments so far (she's likely to be coming with me, we're probably going to get married soonish), and she said "wow, basically it's just like being back on the Res again", what with the White Man being the boogeyman who stole all your land and takes your jobs, high teen pregnancies and drug use, that 'hawaii attitude'...then there's the general hating on tourist yahoos that always happens in a resort area.

Now I can make all that work and get by in a temporary way, like 3-4 years...but if it's long-lasting and never changes, eventually I'll want to move on. I'm trying to find out through my FAA contacts how permanent and binding a move this is, and also how guaranteed that Aspen slot is if I just wait long enough. I'm just loath to turn anything down right now, I'm making about 12k a year and it's unacceptable. Not exactly a lot of good part-time work around here right now either, all the construction meatheads got laid off and soaked up all the remaining jobs.

Tye, that's it exactly - Reagan fired all the ATC guys in, what, '82? And had a massive hiring extravaganza. Then the FAA didn't hire for a long, long time, now everyone's approaching their mandatory retirement ages (cannot actively control aircraft past a certain age, I believe it's 65), so they've been trying to be smarter by having large hiring waves (called PUBNATs) that go through every couple months. I first applied for all this stuff last July. Only thing I'm leery is that the word is out on the street that this is a good-paying job that is hiring, now, so every yahoo sees the dollar signs and puts in for it - that's why there's such a big backlog and it's getting worse. That's another reason I don't want to turn anything down right now, besides my current shitty situation it's going to get tighter with the economy. But that could be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Thanks again for all the input so far. Please keep it coming, I have until this Friday to make a final decision.

[Tye 1on]

[think the mandatory retirement age is 57, just like nps rangers, professional firedogs like Yeti, etc. Somebody 30 in 82 is...go figure...]

You might ask if there are any incentives. I've heard of agencies paying for one visitation trip per year back to the states...

[TomK]

Jump,

All the short-term "what abouts" and maybys aside, it's a chance to get paid for living on a tropical island while moving your career in the direction you want it to go. Not really seeing much downside there agaist the huge upsides.

Grab the opportunity that's being offered.
You will not regret it, even if you find that island life is not for you and you eventually move back.

I've found that people who take advantage of opportunities like this and can produce, end up getting more opportunities tossed thier way.

(Besides Aspen, other snow country airports will have ATC slots opening up in the next several years too. )

[ProHoHater]

Go, have fun, but don't plan on staying. Most people from the mainland are pretty much over HI after a year or two. In Hawaii it is all about the aina (the land), and it is beautiful. Hilo side is way different than Oahu. Because it is so much younger, there aren't as many good sandy swimming beaches, like you find on Oahu. There are some gorgeous beaches though, south of Hilo is one of the sickest black sand beaches in the world. The hiking is awesome, mountain biking not so much. Volcano NP is freaking off the hizzit, so is the coast above Hilo. Forget about surfing, unless you already do, or are an awesome swimmer and an in great shape (It is not the best spot for beginners). Oh, and you will see a rainbow every single day. Thats is pretty fucking cool.

With that said everything else about Hawaii pretty much blows ass. The food sucks. The music scene sucks. Plane tickets to anywhere suck. You will be robbed. You will be called a fucking Haole. You will miss road trips. You will miss skiing. The state and local government suck. If you are an idiot, or even faintly lack the skills to avoid confrontation, or are trying to learn to surf, you be assaulted, and you will lose. Most of the population is really uneducated, so you will get what comes with it. Many people are very poor, and you get what comes with that as well.

There are more shitty things that come with living on a speck in the middle of the Pacific but it isn't about those or any of the shitty things I listed. Its about the aina, and the aina is pretty fucking cool.

Note: I've been here over ten years I loved it for a long time, and still do love so many aspects of living here (Oahu, North Shore) but I am pretty fucking over it now, and I'm even a surfer. I would have only lasted a couple of years in Hilo, which I visit lots, but living there would be fun for a short period. Most people are over it in a year or two so I wouldn't plan on it being a long stay.

[Keegan]

The most familiar thing I could compare it to for someone who has never lived there is to picture yourself living on an indian reservation. Ask yourself how well that would work out for you?

So basically I'd be killed...

[char]

I'd say that in this economy if you are currently making 12k and could make 40k in Hilo, it is a no brainer to go for it. Unless you are sure you could get the job in Aspen.

Or you could come over with a minimum of stuff and keep your name in the hat for the Aspen job. Pull the plug on Hilo if you don't like it.

[Atrain505]

I lived on the big island for four months, so take all of this with a grain of salt.
I lived in kona on the beach and in the back of a station wagon with my girlfriend.
If my girlfriend wasn't there it might of really sucked.
She being there it was awesome.
I learned to surf there.
By the end of four months I was a pretty solid surfer. Now I surf once a year and it takes me a few days to feel even slighty unlike a huge gaper. Frustrating sport, but so fun if you can do it consistently.
Yes I got called a fucking haole out in the water.
Yes I pissed some people off. But for the most part whenever I went to a new break I'd watch for a long time. The vibe, the quality of surfers, the takeoff, etc. You just ease your way into it and don't drop in when other guys are. It also helped that my beautiful lady was out in the water with me. She get hit on and make the guys smile while I surfed.
The best friends I made there were white from Colorado.
I grew up in New Mexico, so the culture was remarkably similar. Cholo is a good word for it. So I was used to it and had no problem with the locals. I guess I just learned growing up how to act in that kind of culture where my kind is the evil kind.

Would I live there for a long period of time. No. I love open space too much. Would I live there for a year? In a heartbeat, if I could take trips to the mountains. Its a fun, amazing place.

With all that being said, the couple times I went to Hilo I went "oh shit, glad I'm not here."
Finally my girlfriend is half chinese half west indie. So she looks very similar to the native Hawaiians.
A girl at my university who grew up on the big island after hearing our story of living on different beaches all summer and seeing the two of us together said "Wow. You are lucky. Wow." She went on to explain how growing up there every once in a while a white dude would end up in the hospital because he was down at a beach with a native girl at night. A bunch of natives would go down there and beat the shit out of the guy.

Thank god I was never interupted from our beach frolicking at night.
Good memories.

[splat]

I lived in the Ka'amaiana Hotel in downtown Hilo once for a couple months. Nothin like that intense downpour hitting the tin roof all night and day. Heh.
You talk da pidgeon, brah, tings be awright. I was in Hawaii most of my 20s and it was fukking unreal. Lived with three Samoan brothers and did martial arts, body surfed and sailed and lived the muthafuckin dream to the hilt. Almost exclusively in Maui, though I jumped to Kona and Hilo from time to time. Took my skis and boots to Hilo, but never made it up Mauna Kea to ski.

Uncle Larry owns Hawaii, especially the Big Island.