Most fucked up police shooting ever

[mtnmedic]

I think this is deplorable but, I'm just going to stir the pot a little and ask. Where is all this outrage when a wife dies in a domestic dispute or an old couple in a home invasion or an innocent child in a drive by? Why no threads or riots in the street then? We are all calling this murder, what makes it so different?

[4matic]

Violent protests broke out over this, with over 100 destructive anarchist rioters arrested. Many of them bruised and beaten by oakland riot police. The officer who did the shooting has quit the force avoiding any mandatory Internal Affairs investigation.

All this over a petty dispute between two men on a bart platform who got in a fight.

I live near the college bart station, and the air is thick here in oakland the past few days. Between the SF protests of the invasion of gaza and the east bay action on this shooting the activist community is on edge.

Fixed that for you..

Here's a couple of your "activists":

Lee Y. Pang, 28, of Oakland was charged with misdemeanor possession of a concealed weapon and possession of a loaded firearm. Pang was arrested on the 2000 block of Broadway at about 11 p.m. and said, "I've got guns in both my pockets," as he was taken into custody, police said.

Police found two semiautomatic pistols, one in each pocket, authorities said.

A 20-year-old Oakland man, Andrew Lewis, was charged with felony possession of cocaine and misdemeanor vandalism for allegedly breaking windows at the McDonald's restaurant at 14th and Jackson streets.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

I think this is deplorable but, I'm just going to stir the pot a little and ask. Where is all this outrage when a wife dies in a domestic dispute or an old couple in a home invasion or an innocent child in a drive by? Why no threads or riots in the street then? We are all calling this murder, what makes it so different?

At least one aspect of the answer *should* be obvious, but since you haven't grasped it I'll try to explain:

Cops are supposed to protect you from criminals, or at least apprehend the criminal after they have violated you, not be perpetrators of violations themselves. They are the law enforcement arm of the government. Therefore protests (not rioting and destruction of private property) are a legitimate way for the populace to express their displeasure with the government. Protests might actually change something as they force the government to pay attention and draw wider public scrutiny to events. Criminals on the other hand don't care much about protests and probably see it as a good opportunity to burglarize protesters houses while they're out marching around and chanting.

[mtnmedic]

At least one aspect of the answer *should* be obvious, but since you haven't grasped it I'll try to explain:

Cops are supposed to protect you from criminals, or at least apprehend the criminal after they have violated you, not be perpetrators of violations themselves. They are the law enforcement arm of the government. Therefore protests (not rioting and destruction of private property) are a legitimate way for the populace to express their displeasure with the government. Protests might actually change something as they force the government to pay attention and draw wider public scrutiny to events. Criminals on the other hand don't care much about protests and probably see it as a good opportunity to burglarize protesters houses while they're out marching around and chanting.

I think that here in lies the problem. I agree with you about the role of the Police and that this deserves attention. Is this happening all the time? Are the police killing in mass numbers? What will the protest do? The police don't train there guys to do this. He messed up in numerous ways. The city didn't try to cover it up, the government hasn't condoned this at all. Everyone agrees this was awful. So we are going to protest a point that we are all on the same side of? The reaction is false outrage. One bad cop/cop mistake vs. how many other murders in Oakland? Its an opportunity to take out angst and frustration especially if the "man" is involved. We should all be more upset about a mother murdering her child or a kid caught in a drive by. That happens unfortunately WAY more than this and usually doesn't even hit the news. Maybe if we were more upset about it as a population it wouldn't happen as much.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Yeah, cuz murderers and wife beaters are all concerned about what everyone else thinks...

[Benny Profane]

Simple answer: Because, if there were no protests of any form, the Men with Guns win. They just use their power and social standing to proclaim themselves right and the victims wrong, as they have since the dawn of history (well, men with clubs way back). Thank the Lord for cellphone and small, affordable video cameras. It's almost revolutionary how they're changing policing.

[40footer]

^Exactamundo my friend. Well put

[eastwest]

It's true, police have the law behind them and we have to submit to their power or they can bring the power of the gov't down on our heads, so to have them abuse that power is an outrage. However, it we are going to talk about outrages, that's not first on my list. I think it's an outrage that a few aholes back east just robbed the Treasury for a couple of trillion dollars and it's going to cost all of us dearly in the next few years. That $20 bill in your wallet is shrinking by the day.

I wonder when the protests are going to start up over that?

[Kai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2wOxnAiIVs

I always follow Chris's advice.

[cramer]

fuck with popo's get fucked by the popo's. How about celebrate new years with your family and friends eh? No, id rather go out to the city and get in a fight on bart....

definition of stupidity...10 mil in this area, how bout you mature and for the love of gawd, be a responsible human being. what an idiot, sorry. he got shot because he's a fucking idiot. Had he actually just rode the fucking bart train home, guess what, he's fine.

the black man gets mowed down by the black man daily down here. white dude mows down the black man, now its a big issue. whatever, glad i dont live in SF or OAK, idiots.

[Bullet]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=109336

Wow! Sort of a Rashomon effect watching the video then reading all the comments. I really don't see how any one can watch those videos and see any justification for the death penalty.


Two things:
1) This is definitely the most fucked up police shooting vid I've seen (from the US).
2) That cop forum did not make me feel any better. I didn't read every post, but ..... damn.... many of those posts disturbed me by how easily they tried to justify use of deadly force.

[cramer]

Wow! Sort of a Rashomon effect watching the video then reading all the comments. Two things:
1) This is definitely the most fucked up police shooting vid I've seen.
2) That cop forum did not make me feel any better. I didn't read every post, but ..... damn.... many of those posts disturbed me by how easily they tried justified deadly force in this situation.

it was taking 2 piggies to hold that fool down, they didnt even know if he had a gun yet from what i could tell? Oh, lets open that can of worms, was he reaching for something ?

[Bullet]

it was taking 2 piggies to hold that fool down, they didnt even know if he had a gun yet from what i could tell? Oh, lets open that can of worms, was he reaching for something ?

That's my point of the Rashomon effect.

I saw a man sitting on the ground. Then be pulled forward by a cop, pushed to the ground. His hands are out in front of him. Another cop kneels on his head. Some words are exchanged - can't tell what they are. Cop kneeling on man's head blocks view a bit in one video, in the other it's clear that the other cop is pulling the man's hands behind his back. Cops stand up. Suspect still laying on the ground - looks to be cuffed - I don't see him to be resisting or moving.

Cop pulls weapon. Fires into man on the ground. Cops stare at each other. When they roll him over it appears that the man's hands are cuffed behind his back.

Friend of dead man, who also has hands cuffed behind his back, stands-up and rushes two officers yelling "we didn't do nothin'". Cops don't respond to him. So they shoot a man laying prone, but not the man standing up and rushing forward at them.

What did you see?

[doughboyshredder]

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=109336

Holy shit, what a bunch of worthless fucks. Really. It is sad that so many police officers don't have a respect for life.

Fuck the Police.

I have tried for years to be more understanding of cops and what they deal with. I had a really scary situation last year and the cops helped big time. But with this kind of crap happening constantly I have a hard time maintaining the respect that was earned that night.

This cop is a murderer. Doesn't matter if it was an accident. Throw the fuck in prison for a long time.

[doughboyshredder]

I think this is deplorable but, I'm just going to stir the pot a little and ask. Where is all this outrage when a wife dies in a domestic dispute or an old couple in a home invasion or an innocent child in a drive by? Why no threads or riots in the street then? We are all calling this murder, what makes it so different?

The difference is that the perp is sanctioned by the government.

[watersnowdirt]

What an incredibly sad and tragic situation all around.

I wasn't there - I don't know what happened. I could watch the video 20 times and still not know what happened. I don't have the training or insight to know what went wrong.

I have a dear friend who is a BART police officer (a woman) who was on duty New Year's eve, so I panicked when I heard this. She was not at the incident, but this has of course, torn them all apart, and as someone said, ruined many lives. Perhaps if I didn't know her, I would have jumped to the same conclusion as others, but I suppose I feel more compelled to try to see the other possibilities - that this was horrible, horrible accident.

I am very wary of abuses of police power.

I'm also grateful that I can call the police if I believe an intruder is in my house.

There are good cops, and there are bad cops. It worries me when I see people making such blanket statement that all cops are power hungry. Some are truly out there risking life and limb to protect you.

And yes, some (like on that police forum) are simply scary and should not be allowed to carry weapons.

I'm also writing this as someone who's been arrested three times in my life, and have been in many more situations with police officers.

[mtnmedic]

The difference is that the perp is sanctioned by the government.

Ok, by that logic the next time a doctor kills somebody by accident or negligence you'll be just as angry? The government sanctions and licenses them, we look to them to protect and take care of us in our time of need. My point is that everyone wants to jump on the "fuck the police" band wagon. We all have had a negative run in with police but lets be honest, we all were doing something we shouldn't have been doing at the time. The government doesn't sanction police to kill in the streets, to suggest it does is absurd.

[Cono Este]

Ok, by that logic the next time a doctor kills somebody by accident or negligence you'll be just as angry? The government sanctions and licenses them, we look to them to protect and take care of us in our time of need. My point is that everyone wants to jump on the "fuck the police" band wagon. We all have had a negative run in with police but lets be honest, we all were doing something we shouldn't have been doing at the time. The government doesn't sanction police to kill in the streets, to suggest it does is absurd.

That would be comparable if doctors had the power of the law to force pedestrians off the street and into operating rooms and to submit to experimental medical experiments or something. But Im pretty sure they don't have that power, or responsibility.

[spanghew]

The government doesn't sanction police to kill in the streets, to suggest it does is absurd.

Yes, and America doesn't torture or use special rendition, either.

[freshie247]

No Doctor, ever threatened me, with say, being ganged raped in a group holding cell while the officers watched & laughed.This happened senior year in HS when our senior prank of taking the tires off of the HS dean's car went awry.

Or thrown up against a car,or told me he could do whatever he wanted & was going to literally tear apart my car;shred seats, tires,dash,you name it because I was a smart ass.

That's why this scares people more than malpractice.

[mtnmedic]

That would be comparable if doctors had the power of the law to force pedestrians off the street and into operating rooms and to submit to experimental medical experiments or something. But Im pretty sure they don't have that power, or responsibility.

Nevermind, apparently I missed that we all lived in North Korea. Police couldn't do that either. I was merely suggesting that you shouldn't say that the police, meaning all police, live to oppress the people. A lot of people want to take it a step further and think that its governments grant scheme to let this happen. If you all want to think the police are corrupt power hungry criminals, be my guest.

[Cono Este]

Nevermind, apparently I missed that we all lived in North Korea. Police couldn't do that either. I was merely suggesting that you shouldn't say that the police, meaning all police, live to oppress the people. A lot of people want to take it a step further and think that its governments grant scheme to let this happen. If you all want to think the police are corrupt power hungry criminals, be my guest.

No one is saying that. Were just responding to what we see. A Nazi type execution on tape. If they gave him a cigarette and a blindfold it would appear to be a standard execution. As it stands, this is straight out of a death camp. If his fellow officers immediately disarmed him and rendered medical aid to the victim I think it would make more sense to public. And that goes for all police misconduct, just as in another profession.

[SkiCop]

I really appreciate all of you hating me. That's what makes me feel good about myself. If you do hate me without having met me, fuck you. That makes you a dumbass, not me. The cop in that video fucked up, BAD. Criminally bad. There is no excuse for him not know whether he had a gun or a taser in his hand. I can tell you that police officers across the nation are under-trained. Why is that? Money. Budgets don't allow the amount of training that it takes to become proficient under duress. This is compounded in the larger cities where this sort of thing seems to be more common by the fact that they take a 21 year old kid with little life experience, train him in firearms and taser deployment for a week, and then expect him to know what he is doing. I would guess that most rookie officers in larger cities touch a gun for the first time in the academy. I grew up in the country and work for a small department and can tell you that some of the "city boys" scare me. I am a firearms instructor and train both the officers in my department as well as one of the regional academies and can see quite a difference between the two. What is the answer? I have no idea, but something needs to be done. For a department of 25 people, our ammunition budget is about $5,000 a year. We shoot more than the large departments, whose officers might shoot 100 rounds a year. Our guys, and gals, shoot about five times that and it shows. [/end rant]

[powdork]

fuck with popo's get fucked by the popo's. How about celebrate new years with your family and friends eh? No, id rather go out to the city and get in a fight on bart....

definition of stupidity...10 mil in this area, how bout you mature and for the love of gawd, be a responsible human being. what an idiot, sorry. he got shot because he's a fucking idiot. Had he actually just rode the fucking bart train home, guess what, he's fine.

so he was shot for violating curfew? oh wait, there is no curfew. he was shot for nothing. the fucking idiot was the guy with the gun in his hand. if he had used it on himself, the dead guys son would still have a dad.

[advres]

He was arrested on supsicion of murder:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAM615A08A.DTL

The BART police officer who fatally shot an unarmed man on an Oakland train platform and then refused to explain his actions to investigators was arrested Tuesday in Nevada on suspicion of murder, authorities said.

Johannes Mehserle, 27, of Lafayette was taken into custody in Douglas County, Nev., said Deputy Steve Velez of the Douglas County sheriff's office. The arrest was also confirmed by David Chai, chief of staff to Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums.

Mehserle was arrested in the New Year's Day shooting of Oscar Grant, a 22-year-old supermarket worker from Hayward who was lying facedown after being pulled off a BART train by police investigating a fight. An Alameda County judge signed an arrest warrant alleging murder, and Mehserle surrendered without incident, authorities said.

The shooting, which was recorded by passengers in videos widely circulated on the Internet and television, prompted public outrage, and some viewers said that the shooting appeared to be an execution.

Sources said Mehserle was in Nevada because he feared for his safety after death threats were made against him. Douglas County is 15 miles south of Carson City in northwestern Nevada and includes part of Lake Tahoe.

Mehserle's attorney, Christopher W. Miller of Sacramento, confirmed early today that his client was arrested on suspicion of murder. He said he would not comment further until a news conference today.

Alameda County District Attorney Tom Orloff was expected to announce details of the arrest today. He could not be reached late Tuesday.

Authorities have been under immense pressure to take action in the case. On Tuesday, BART board President Thomas Blalock and board Director Carole Ward Allen sent a letter to Orloff, urging the district attorney to move expeditiously to complete the investigation and file charges if warranted.

Some Oakland community leaders and civil rights activists said the case is symbolic of larger problems with police officers using excessive force on young black men. Grant was black and Mehserle is white.

The arrest came on the eve of a protest scheduled for 4 p.m. today outside Oakland City Hall, the latest in a series of demonstrations in which BART has been accused of mishandling the investigation.

BART police on Monday turned over the results of their preliminary investigation to Orloff's office. A separate investigation by Oakland police was launched last week, and Mehserle's arrest was related to that probe, sources said. The state attorney general is also monitoring the case.

BART officers had detained Grant and several other passengers at about 2 a.m. Jan. 1 as they investigated a fight aboard a train from San Francisco. Passengers with cellular phone cameras captured footage that shows Grant lying facedown when he was shot.

In the videos, Mehserle appears to be trying to put cuffs on Grant, and Grant appears to be struggling, when Mehserle suddenly pulls his service weapon from his holster and fires one shot into Grant's back.

Mehserle declined to speak to BART criminal investigators after the shooting. Then last Wednesday he resigned rather than answer questions from BART's internal affairs division.

His departure came the same day Grant was buried and a peaceful protest at the Fruitvale BART Station erupted into violence in downtown Oakland. Demonstrators set cars on fire and broke windows at dozens of businesses. By night's end, police had arrested 105 people.

Grant's family has filed a $25 million legal claim against BART, signaling an intention to sue for damages. The family's attorney, John Burris, said late Tuesday that he was pleased to hear of Mehserle's arrest.

"If it's true, the family is delighted, and it will really help with the healing process," Burris said. "This is also very important for the community. This had to occur; it was almost a no-brainer. I think the district attorney ought to be commended for moving (the case) expeditiously."