Anyone ski rockered skis in all conditions?

[Vitamin I]

I had 3 reverse/reverse skis in my quiver last year: Spats, 192 Lotus138s, 195 PraxisPows. Spats are fun in all conditions. And I demoed Hellbents which were fun even in nasty refrozen conditions. IMO, PraxisPows and Lotus138s were too fat for refrozen teeth-chattering crud because they would torque my ankles with bad vibes. Plus the Lotus were so light they got knocked around in refrozen crud. Not a big surprise that uberfats aren't optimal in all conditions.

Go for it with Hellbents in all conditions, but might as well keep your Squads, and never say never---Hellbents are fun, but they're so soft, and it's probably just a matter of time before you'll yearn for a stiff-tailed big mtn charger again. I guess it might depend on how often you find yourself hitting the Hellbent's speed limit. E.g. Poor visibility days in Whistler aren't very safe for the highest speeds off piste on charger skis, so might as well have fun on playful Spats/Hellbents at medium-high speeds.

I have to admit that I'm seriously considering rockered skis for next season, but I have to admit that I actually like groomers. Maybe I'm the only one, but I really like going balls out fast on a consistent surface and high g-force turns that almost knock you over in the transition...

You're not the only one. What you like to do on groomers is what many skiers seek off groomers in places with open terrain, and depending on snow conditions, some ski models enable that better than others. Isn't that what open windbuff is all about?

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[Scottish_Skier]

Very interesting thread & question.
Would love to hear more opinions.
Especially since the '2009 / 2010 skis' seem to be mostly the same but with addition of tip rocker....

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=146939

Obviously tip rocker improves performance in powder and deep snow.
But how does it affect the performance on piste / moguls / hardpack etc ?
This is especially important in europe.
When skiing long (1500m+) vertical descents in Europe your almost certainly going to be encountering variable conditions at some point.

Does addition of tip rocker make skis like the Coomba / Gotama etc more or less flexible ? Surely the rocker reduces edge length and grip on harder snow ? Making the ski less of an all rounder...

Apologies for being a traditionalist

[snowful]

...Surely the rocker reduces edge length and grip on harder snow ? Making the ski less of an all rounder...

Apologies for being a traditionalist

I'm with you, except I make no apologies. I think the people who rave about how rockers ski on groomers never learned how to carve a turn and never spend a day just skiing groomers. I also think in off-piste no-fall zones a trad camber ski will be much safer when ice is encountered.

[hop]

Very interesting thread & question.
Would love to hear more opinions.
Especially since the '2009 / 2010 skis' seem to be mostly the same but with addition of tip rocker....

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=146939

Obviously tip rocker improves performance in powder and deep snow.
But how does it affect the performance on piste / moguls / hardpack etc ?
This is especially important in europe.
When skiing long (1500m+) vertical descents in Europe your almost certainly going to be encountering variable conditions at some point.

Does addition of tip rocker make skis like the Coomba / Gotama etc more or less flexible ? Surely the rocker reduces edge length and grip on harder snow ? Making the ski less of an all rounder...

Apologies for being a traditionalist

Did it look like I was having any trouble carving zee piste at SSB or Crevacol on my obsethed? I'd take rocker for Tautan (sp?) death traverses any day as well... reduces the likelihood of the tip augering into the next bump and causing embarrassment.

I would have no qualms about using an Obsethed as a daily driver in Verbier.

I'm with you, except I make no apologies. I think the people who rave about how rockers ski on groomers never learned how to carve a turn and never spend a day just skiing groomers. I also think in off-piste no-fall zones a trad camber ski will be much safer when ice is encountered.

I know how to carve a turn and have no problem doing so, even on Pontoons. Normally, I would never spend a DAY (a few runs, sure) skiing just groomers if I could help it. Even so, I would still rather have a nicely-tuned pair of obsethed for ripping groomers instead of, say, a set of volkl V-pros w/ serrated edges (no offense Huck_Schmuck!)

How many times do you encounter ICE on off-piste no-fall zones? I would reckon that unless you're Doug Ward, you're probably going to be sliding for life if you encounter ice no matter what skis you're on.

But whatever. Enjoy your cambered skis! As long as you're having fun.... that's all that matters.


Edit: I re-read the entire thread and noticed that a few people were craving their LPs and Bros on those not-so-fresh days when their Kuros and whatnot were getting tossed around. To those folks I have to say: "well, duh!"
Having a ski w/ rocker does not negate the need/want for a quiver, it just makes your entire quiver more fun IMO. You're going to want something w/ skinnier with lighter rocker (Obsethed, Anti Piste, Lhasa?) for those not so fresh days, and then the Pontoon, Hellbent, Praxis, or something equally big for the BIG days. This is the direction my quiver is evolving.

[Ottime]

I will never again ski a non-rockered ski unless forced to.

Might be hard to do on Long Board Day.

The rockers have their place, but it's hard to beat the LP's on a not so fresh day.

Agreed. I have not yet had the chance to get on my Praxis, but it had been fun hitting the groomed and ice around here on the LPs.

Still want to try out the Czar like creations this year, as an inbetween ski, or big touring rig.

[Scottish_Skier]

Did it look like I was having any trouble carving zee piste at SSB or Crevacol on my obsethed?

Nope... But then you could also 'pisten carve' on gavs old 2002 Volkl V-Pros.

I am not questioning the benefit's of tip-rocker. Just interested in how it affects performance in other ways - especially since several peeps (including yourself!) are now strong advocates of tip rocker for day to day skiing - and not just pow days.

Ultimately though I need to try a set in the right conditions and form my own opinion & preference's....

Tautan (sp?) death traverses any day as well

Tortin - perfect icy mogul hardpack testing zone for any ski.

[pechelman]

tip rocker, when done carefully, hardly affects a skis ability to carve

its a matter of balancing stiffness, rocker profile, and ski tip width

almost no ski got this right in the past and still only a few do

[h2d]

In your masterful opinion, who do you consider did or has got this right to date? I'm assuming the lhasa is one which did get it right??

[pechelman]

i have a pair of lhasa's this year that have too much rocker to make this a sucessful compromise for carving, but since theyre my pow day bc touring skis only, its not a factor for me.
the ones i had last year were perfect

the antipiste and obsethed i think have this pretty well dialed, and are on the upper extreme i think for the amount of rocker you can get away with on a ski for everyday use. this years dp120 with tip splay also has this right imo, as previous versions lacked rocker and just had a big shovel.

maybe one or two of the other indie brands, like praxis or moment, but ive not fondled any of these to know for certain.

that dynafit manasulu ski also looks to have it within reason, though its rocker is so abrupt and tiny anyway

i think the earliest ski which got closest to doing this right, afaik, was the ehp193
but that even looked and sounded like (based off numerous reviews ive read here) that it had a bit too much rocker given its tip shape

[splat]

In your masterful opinion, who do you consider did or has got this right to date? I'm assuming the lhasa is one which did get it right??

I would say so. But I'm biased.
But I would attribute that to doing a shitload of homework on it before releasing it.
pechelman - where you been, mang?

[pechelman]

skiing and working?

[D(C)]

i think the earliest ski which got closest to doing this right, afaik, was the ehp193
but that even looked and sounded like (based off numerous reviews ive read here) that it had a bit too much rocker given its tip shape

I'm riding the 07s. I'd say it isn't the rocker that holds them back from being a good carver. It's the pin(ish) tail and 41 m radius that makes them hold not so well. But the tip shape doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.

If I had to do it again, I'd get a ski with a bit more tail to help with turn completion.

[hop]

The Coomback and Anti Piste have lower rocker that extends farther down the shovel (2/30) while the Obsethed has more abrupt rocker that's not as long (10/20).

10/20 means 10mm of rocker from what would normally be the tip contact point to 20cm back from that point when placed against a flat surface (or held base-to-base).

The effect of these rockers is similar in the tip, but overall I prefer the 10/20 because it leaves more of the ski feeling "normal" while still allowing smear and slashability. This is esp. apparent in the tails, and obvious when skiing OB on harder snow vs. HB or Pontoon rocker on harder snow. The 108-waisted HB protos are mucho fun in pow, but the obsethed are 99% as fun and waaaay better when it's not soft. It was because of this that I preferred my tip-rocker only 108 waisted skis for all-around, but the obsethed gives the best of both worlds (and is actually in production). Of course if you really want a normal tail then the AP, Coomback or any of the "Side" skis is what you want.

For reference, a Pontoon or a Hellbent is 20/40.

[pechelman]

thats another reason
but its entirely possible to carve on a ski with a pin tail \ rockered tip ski like that if you create a compromise between rocker and tip width and bias yourself and weight to pressuring the tips

like on the lhasa...
(the difference in pin tail between the ehp is only 1mm on each side)

[wren]

My daily drivers are ON3P Wrenegades, 141/113/128 in a 191 with 1.5cm of tip rocker over 15cm. Love em'. But I have to say, my bro's 194 Legend Pros are better on the groomers, and waaaaaaay better on ice. I have to get my explosives properly tuned then they'll be my ice skis in addition to my rock skis.

[Neaps]

I have the czars with tip rocker and a flat tail. They carve well on groomers, and have a lot of power coming out of the turn because of the flat tail, but this got me thinking, do full rockered skis with the tail rocker produce power out of the turn? It just seems like you would go to crank on them and the tail would not engage normally and you would get a wimpy carve. tail rocker folk, let me know.

[The Duke of Hurl]

Got handed some pontoons last year and never looked back. Mounted some JJ's with barons for old snow days and slackcountry and have been loving them. Almost a 1 ski quiver. I still want the toons for cat/heli 12"+. IMHO the new JJ shape, recurve elfshoe or whatever you want to call it makes "traditional skis" obsolete.

[Core Shot]

DPS 120 200cm=daily driver.

ditto.
I got mine last year, and brought a pair of Legend Pros in case the snow stopped. I found myself enojoying the 120 200cm far and above the LP.

This year, I am only bringing the Lotus 120 200cm out West. they are that good

2 reasons for that:
1) flex 3 stiff - many rockered skis are too soft to go 40-50mph under control
2) its not that rockered - only a bit of shovel rocker. Full reverse reverse would be ugly for me every day. regular sidecut with reverse rocker (more like Bluehouse Maiden) could be doable, but it would have to be stiffer to be fun.

[jmpilo]

Just picked up my ObSETHed’s (slightly rockerd tip and tail) skied them about ½ dozen times in most all conditions including groomers, bumps etc. They will be my go-to ski from now on. Doubt I’ll ever go back to my Mantras and I'm now looking to pull the trigger on a pair of 186 Lhasa Pow, that is if I win the lottery

[Tick]

so I've read most of the thread about peeps really enjoying rockered skiis in deep snow as well as on groomer or bullshit old snow.

so anyone try this on tele skis? is it extra squirrely when you try and press out the back ski?

I'm on the east coast.... we get everything from pure bioler plate to decently deep snow. how about rocking an anti-piste or some other mellowly rockered ski with a tele set-up?

Thanks mags
-tick

[snowful]

tip rocker, when done carefully, hardly affects a skis ability to carve

its a matter of balancing stiffness, rocker profile, and ski tip width

almost no ski got this right in the past and still only a few do

pechelman is right, mostly, and I was wrong in my previous post. That is what I get for posting without thinking.

I think a ski's carveability is mostly a function of waist width, camber, and stiffness. I think a narrower, stiffer, and more cambered under foot rocker ski would be better in all conditions.

[snowful]

How many times do you encounter ICE on off-piste no-fall zones?

Nope, never any ice in the mountains. Crampons were made for aerating the lawn. And foraging for grubs, I reckon.

[hop]

Nope, never any ice in the mountains. Crampons were made for aerating the lawn. And foraging for grubs, I reckon.

That's what I thought.

Maybe I should rephrase my question:

How many times do you actually ski down ice on your regularly-scheduled off-piste no-fall zone lines? If you are one of the extremo ski mountaineers that regularly does, then you shouldn't need any advice on how to negotiate it on any pair of skis, rockered or not.

If I'm skiing down a line and I encounter crampon-requiring ICE (the clear stuff), I certainly do not attempt to ski it no matter what skis I'm on. If I encounter hardpack/bulletproof SNOW (the white stuff), then I either ski it and don't fall or retreat. In any event, after a few seasons of skiing rockered skis almost exclusively, I feel more comfortable on rockered skis than traditional skis in any terrain.

Tick: FWIW I am on tele gear 99.9% of the time, but P-turning 99.9% of the time. My experience lends me to believe that if it works w/ p turns, it will work with tele turns. BTW, the Anti-Piste is a telemark ski! Doooo it!

[verbier61]

so tomorrow dan loutrel will bring a bunch of rockered birdos obeses in verbier, which is now a single huge mogul. I am really tempted to skip the birdos demo days to go with uli to track col flassin untouched powder near by crevacol, but, you know, someone has to do this dirty job of assessing how the fat rockered birdos rips on icy moguls.... stay tuned

[splat]

Your optimism will reward you, verb.
Tell Dan I said hi.
Anyone ski rockered skis in all conditions?
Ask atrain.



Or alto.....