espresso making mags?

[Doremite]

I will have to go some googling. Not on IG so couldn’t use his link.

[mud]

There is a lot of great info on r/espresso if you really want to see some gatekeeping on what makes a great shot.
I think I may have a problem, waiting for one of these to come in the mail. I already have an old one but the new one has a pressure gauge.
https://bellmanespresso.com/products...d-milk-steamer

[Doremite]

I am not clear how pre-infusion relates to puck deterioration theory.

[jackattack]

I am not clear how pre-infusion relates to puck deterioration theory.

Ok, so I picked up this theory from the story reel on his Instagram but that’s long gone. However the full explanation just dropped on YouTube.



Jump to here if you just want a demonstration of what I tried to describe earlier.

Basically a long low flow pre-infusion or saturation results in non-homogeneous puck deterioration over the length of the shot making even extraction impossible. His demonstration of that is really enlightening and something I have seen many times using that method, though I didn't really do anything about it until seeing the IG reel.

[neufox47]

Interesting, explains why I really like my Flair 58.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Doremite]

Ok, so I picked up this theory from the story reel on his Instagram but that’s long gone. However the full explanation just dropped on YouTube.



Jump to here if you just want a demonstration of what I tried to describe earlier.

Basically a long low flow pre-infusion or saturation results in non-homogeneous puck deterioration over the length of the shot making even extraction impossible. His demonstration of that is really enlightening and something I have seen many times using that method, though I didn't really do anything about it until seeing the IG reel.

So are you ramping the pressure to 9, shutting the valve fully at first drip to allow full saturation to take hold THEN building back to 9 before tapering off pressure or are you just skipping that “see saw” entirely and just getting to extraction, being conscious of limiting the time at a full 9 bar pressure as the puck deteriorates?

I am tempted to just blast the puck at full pressure, hang at 9 bar for 15-20 seconds once a sustained flow rate is achieved, and then manually back off the pressure for the remaining 15-20 second of extraction (hopefully) landing somewhere in the 1:3 ratio.

I have always assumed low pressure pre-infusion was achieving a fully saturated puck - and a higher likelihood of homogenous extraction - but appears I’ve just been increasing my likelihood of channeling. Never popped the puck out after 30 seconds of 1.5-2bars of pressure to see what it looked like. Just assumed first drip was a confirmation of uniform saturation.

[mattig]

I have conflicted feelings about how much I agree with a video from a dude who looks and talks like a dude who would do videos I don't agree with. Good stuff.

[jackattack]

So are you ramping the pressure to 9, shutting the valve fully at first drip to allow full saturation to take hold THEN building back to 9 before tapering off pressure or are you just skipping that “see saw” entirely and just getting to extraction, being conscious of limiting the time at a full 9 bar pressure as the puck deteriorates?

I am tempted to just blast the puck at full pressure, hang at 9 bar for 15-20 seconds once a sustained flow rate is achieved, and then manually back off the pressure for the remaining 15-20 second of extraction (hopefully) landing somewhere in the 1:3 ratio.

I have always assumed low pressure pre-infusion was achieving a fully saturated puck - and a higher likelihood of homogenous extraction - but appears I’ve just been increasing my likelihood of channeling. Never popped the puck out after 30 seconds of 1.5-2bars of pressure to see what it looked like. Just assumed first drip was a confirmation of uniform saturation.

I think you should try a 9-bar preinfusion and report back. I will be for sure on the next day I WFH!

I've been going straight for the "lever style" shot:
Set the paddle between 3 to 5 o'clock and turn on the machine.
When pressure hits or exceeds 9 bar, I try to hold it constant for just a few seconds then begin to decrease flow such that pressure slowly drops until I have nearly cut flow completely.
The pressure gauge usually hangs around 3-4bar for the rest of the shot until I shut it off.

For a 1:3 shot, I'm pulling back on the flow much more aggressively to spend more time in the 3-4bar range.

[Doremite]

I think you should try a 9-bar preinfusion and report back. I will be for sure on the next day I WFH!

I've been going straight for the "lever style" shot:
Set the paddle between 3 to 5 o'clock and turn on the machine.
When pressure hits or exceeds 9 bar, I try to hold it constant for just a few seconds then begin to decrease flow such that pressure slowly drops until I have nearly cut flow completely.
The pressure gauge usually hangs around 3-4bar for the rest of the shot until I shut it off.

For a 1:3 shot, I'm pulling back on the flow much more aggressively to spend more time in the 3-4bar range.

This is a bit mind blowing but helpful all the same. My OPV definitely doesn’t cap at a 9 bar pressure read and the pump will quickly jump to 10-11 on the flow valve (caps at 10 on the machine’s gauge). I am anxious to not let the pressure mash too high too quickly. When pre-infusing (sorry, Lance), I could easily control the pressure build (probably because I was channeling) so I am thinking I need to build my paddle skills to get to 9 more quickly but without enforcing too much pressure (9.5+ bar) on the puck. The journey continues (after I research Bianca pump pressure adjustments).

[jackattack]

This is a bit mind blowing but helpful all the same. My OPV definitely doesn’t cap at a 9 bar pressure read and the pump will quickly jump to 10-11 on the flow valve (caps at 10 on the machine’s gauge). I am anxious to not let the pressure mash too high too quickly. When pre-infusing (sorry, Lance), I could easily control the pressure build (probably because I was channeling) so I am thinking I need to build my paddle skills to get to 9 more quickly but without enforcing too much pressure (9.5+ bar) on the puck. The journey continues (after I research Bianca pump pressure adjustments).

I'm not sure if Lance adjusted the OPV. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. Everything I see online states that OPV is set to 11 bar.

I exceed 9 bar on the puck all the time. It's part of dialing in the grind, and I'd rather be over a little than under a lot. I'm sure I've hit the OPV many many times and still had great coffee, when it happens, I just kill the flow and try to get pressure under control asap. Taste, adjust the grind, and try again!

I think I might try to adjust the pump pressure, probably reduce to 9.5 or 10 bar -- more thought required. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh-VUwnMd_g

Note: If this level of discussion makes you feel like a nerd, check out this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/co..._lelit_bianca/

[neufox47]

I think you should try a 9-bar preinfusion and report back. I will be for sure on the next day I WFH!

I've been going straight for the "lever style" shot:
Set the paddle between 3 to 5 o'clock and turn on the machine.
When pressure hits or exceeds 9 bar, I try to hold it constant for just a few seconds then begin to decrease flow such that pressure slowly drops until I have nearly cut flow completely.
The pressure gauge usually hangs around 3-4bar for the rest of the shot until I shut it off.

For a 1:3 shot, I'm pulling back on the flow much more aggressively to spend more time in the 3-4bar range.

I’ve been doing bloom shots on my manual flair for a while and they have become my preferred method. I pull to about 6-9 bars until I see espresso starting to come out of all holes on the naked portafilter. Then let it sit at 0 pressure for 30-60 seconds. Then pull the shot for about 30-40 seconds.

I am typically using pretty light roast coffee, pulled 60-120 seconds after 1CS. I wouldn’t use this method with standard espresso roast as it will over extract.

[jackattack]

I’ve been doing bloom shots on my manual flair for a while and they have become my preferred method. I pull to about 6-9 bars until I see espresso starting to come out of all holes on the naked portafilter. Then let it sit at 0 pressure for 30-60 seconds. Then pull the shot for about 30-40 seconds.

I am typically using pretty light roast coffee, pulled 60-120 seconds after 1CS. I wouldn’t use this method with standard espresso roast as it will over extract.

What pressure do you get while you’re pulling the shot?

[Doremite]

I'm not sure if Lance adjusted the OPV. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. Everything I see online states that OPV is set to 11 bar.

I exceed 9 bar on the puck all the time. It's part of dialing in the grind, and I'd rather be over a little than under a lot. I'm sure I've hit the OPV many many times and still had great coffee, when it happens, I just kill the flow and try to get pressure under control asap. Taste, adjust the grind, and try again!

I think I might try to adjust the pump pressure, probably reduce to 9.5 or 10 bar -- more thought required. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh-VUwnMd_g

Note: If this level of discussion makes you feel like a nerd, check out this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/co..._lelit_bianca/

I am not convinced I need to mess w the pump pressure either. Thanks again for all the guidance. My tech skills are limited so the leveraging of tech to dial shit in is beyond me. I am more intrigued by rocking it like it was 1945 (sorta).

[neufox47]

I shoot for it to go back up to about 6 bar, then it drops to about 3-4 for the last 20 seconds, I can’t say I’m super consistent. But with the manual lever as long as I didn’t go too fine I can keep the flow right around 1g/s. I change roast a lot and drink more drip than espresso so my grinds are constantly changing as things age and I tend to play around with different blends.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Doremite]

I shoot for it to go back up to about 6 bar, then it drops to about 3-4 for the last 20 seconds, I can’t say I’m super consistent. But with the manual lever as long as I didn’t go too fine I can keep the flow right around 1g/s. I change roast a lot and drink more drip than espresso so my grinds are constantly changing as things age and I tend to play around with different blends.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

So is that 1g/second start to finish or once extraction has officially started? In other words if shooting for a 50g extraction you at ~50 seconds start to finish or does it take an additional ~10 seconds to get liquid extraction flowing landing total shot time ~60 seconds?

Looking back, Jack was close to total g output equaling total seconds of extraction time.

I’ve got a new game to play.

[neufox47]

The bloom saturates the puck so it ramps up to 1g/s pretty fast.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[basinbeater]

I got a Bambino and a smart grinder pro, trying to step up my game from the Cuisinart pot of coffee. I don't know too much, but I like the American I have been making with a medium roast and a double shot. I look forward to learning. Back to your blooms and pre saturations and other stuff I need to go lookup what it means.

[Supermoon]

I got a Bambino and a smart grinder pro, trying to step up my game from the Cuisinart pot of coffee. I don't know too much, but I like the American I have been making with a medium roast and a double shot. I look forward to learning. Back to your blooms and pre saturations and other stuff I need to go lookup what it means.

When you’re used to cheap drip, anything you do is going to be worlds better.

[neufox47]

I’m going to upgrade my espresso grinder. Top picks are df64, df83, or niche zero or duo. Would likely do ssp burrs with the DFs. Anything else I should consider?

I’ve never owned a flat burr espresso grinder or tasted one next to a good conical. I know most prefer conical for espresso until the flat burrs get big enough. What say you?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[jackattack]

I’m sure it gets better than the niche zero but I don’t know if my palette could tell or if I want to find out. I’m very pleased with it. My only regret is getting white, I wish I had gone with the black.

Next up will be a flat burr grinder for pourovers.

[Doremite]

I’m sure it gets better than the niche zero but I don’t know if my palette could tell or if I want to find out. I’m very pleased with it. My only regret is getting white, I wish I had gone with the black.

Next up will be a flat burr grinder for pourovers.

Agreed except for the white part. White goes great with my white counter tops and back splash. [emoji16]

[tgapp]

I got a Bambino and a smart grinder pro, trying to step up my game from the Cuisinart pot of coffee. I don't know too much, but I like the American I have been making with a medium roast and a double shot. I look forward to learning. Back to your blooms and pre saturations and other stuff I need to go lookup what it means.

I'll roast ya a bag, tell me what you want

Start simple. Get a good little scale. Learn how to tamp and distribute well. Aim for 18g in 36g out over 30 seconds. Start a coffee shop and make 17cents an hour. Meet a tall, dark, mysterious stranger. After a romantic evening, wake up in an ice bath missing your kidney.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[lowsparkco]

I got a Bambino and a smart grinder pro, trying to step up my game from the Cuisinart pot of coffee. I don't know too much, but I like the American I have been making with a medium roast and a double shot. I look forward to learning. Back to your blooms and pre saturations and other stuff I need to go lookup what it means.

Keep it fun. If your coffee is better than your palette your winning.

Tgapp and the gang here got me thinking about using a distributor and WDT tool, then I remembered that I make lattes and am happy with them. No measuring (I measured for awhile when I got this setup), PID I installed which was fun has a timer, always use bottomless portafilter so I can see the extraction, and I change beans a lot to whatever I’m feeling at the local market that has a ton of local and localish whole bean offerings.

I’ll give you one tip which is obvious but bears repeating on occasion. Set aside some time once a week or every other week, and clean everything. Run the suds through the machine using a back flow disk. I like to back the burrs off and blow and brush the grinder real good using an air compressor. Old rancid oil is your biggest enemy and once you have it accumulated it’s too late.

[MontuckyFried]

Keep it fun. If your coffee is better than your palette your winning.

Totally. That's why I honestly like THIS thread versus other resources. I'm still a rookie, but after getting my first (and still current) espresso maker, I quickly learned that coffee nerds are among the worst of the internet experts. The in-fighting in that crowd is even worse than the old EpicSki guys arguing over PSIA techniques. At least our friends in here may keep excelling and improving their L337 coffee skillz, but they at least keep it fun and friendly. Appreciate that guys.

Espresso really is a fun hobby, though. Tinkering and making incremental improvements as you keep learning is just so delightful. Whatever you're into, whether fermenting wine or beer, creating the perfect cocktail, baking a better sourdough, whatever. Really makes life fun, ya know? Mags here are into a lot of really interesting things and I just love that.

[tgapp]

Totally. That's why I honestly like THIS thread versus other resources. I'm still a rookie, but after getting my first (and still current) espresso maker, I quickly learned that coffee nerds are among the worst of the internet experts. The in-fighting in that crowd is even worse than the old EpicSki guys arguing over PSIA techniques. At least our friends in here may keep excelling and improving their L337 coffee skillz, but they at least keep it fun and friendly. Appreciate that guys.

Espresso really is a fun hobby, though. Tinkering and making incremental improvements as you keep learning is just so delightful. Whatever you're into, whether fermenting wine or beer, creating the perfect cocktail, baking a better sourdough, whatever. Really makes life fun, ya know? Mags here are into a lot of really interesting things and I just love that.

I whole heartedly plus one this sentiment and hope that (as one of the resident coffee nerds) I don't come off as overly snobbish or elitist. I fucking hate that shit. It's about having fun and making tasty things. For me - it's also about finding the cheapest, laziest, best path to the best coffee possible. I understand that my definition of best is different than anyone else's too - I don't give a shit, no judgement here as to what anyone else's preferences are.

If I drank more lattes I would do a lot differently, as it is, I drink espresso neat probably 95-98% of the time. That's just what I like.

oh also Montucky I owe ya a bunch of coffee let's make that happen

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk