espresso making mags?

[BigKuba]

I need help with my espresso game. I have my usual roast dialed, which I think is on the normal/darker side, but I recently got a bag of a lighter espresso roast and can't manage to make it not annoyingly sour. This is not the first time -- I've had the same issue with beans from one of my favorite local shops

I've done plenty of internet reading (e.g., here), but am stumped

Apparently sour means under-extraction, so I've tried a finer grind, dumping the first ~3 seconds, slightly different dosing & tamping strength. I have not yet messed with temperature and timing (beyond the 3-sec start-dump). Can't really blame my gear, unless this is a super finicky process that only the most hardcore espresso artisans can master. I'm in Denver so have some temperature limitations due to altitude, but I've had good espresso from a shop whose beans I can't seem to put to good use

What should I be doing differently? Or is that just how new trendy espresso is supposed to taste these days? Pablo's Coffee kinda agrees...

[old goat]

I'm not an espresso snob--I get my beans from safeway--but recently some german friends brought me some ground, pretty light coffee. Not sure what it was, I don't read GErman. Too fine for my french press, too coars for my espresso machine. I tried to get a decent cup of espresso out of it but all I could get was sour. I don't know how espresso is "supposed" to taste but I know I don't like sour, even if that's how it's supposed to be. Not much help, sorry.

[rod9301]

a small cup should take 16 seconds to fill. you don't have to throw away the beginning of the shot.

make sure your shot is not too large, 40 ml max, 35 better.

you should get good crema. I had a problem with my machine, temp wise, until I found out that the metal part where the head (the part where you put cofee) is very hot you can't touch it.

water temp should be about 180f + when it pours into the cup.
hard to measure, but it can be done.


goes, ie th

[Doremite]

If you have reasonable confidence you know what you're doing sounds like you just have beans you don't like. Flavor profile differentials can be drastic. Ive had lots of beans from respectable roasters I just didn't dig.

If happening across multiple bean sources not sure what it can be other than perhaps the grind. What are you using for a machine + grinder?

[BigKuba]

Could be... Only counterargument would be that one bag of sour beans came from a shop whose espresso I generally like. But maybe I've always had it with some milk/foam, concealing the sourness. The beans in question do make a perfectly acceptable latte...

Using a Rocky & Silvia w/PID, so I'd like to think that I can't really blame the gear. Getting consistent timing, temps, and crema (although the latter did take some time to dial in)

rod9301 - I didn't know about throwing away the first few seconds and don't typically do it, only tried because it was suggested as a shortcut to reduce sourness. Didn't really make that much difference

[Doremite]

Perhaps if you haven't already keep going finer on the grind and slightly upping the volume in the basket. Not to push the machine too hard but I am consistently surprised at how many variations I have to factor into grind settings for different beans. Huge setting swings.

[BigKuba]

I too have been surprised at how much of a difference the grind makes -- even between batches of the same beans. Sure, I had heard about it but dismissed it as pretentious coffee snob minutiae. Apparently it's for real.

Bit too late now, but will try to ratchet down the grind even finer tomorrow, and offset that with lower tamp pressure to maintain a normal flow rate. Come to think of it, I remember being surprised by the guy at local coffee shop mentioning that they tamp with barely any force...

[Dhelihiker]

To make proper espresso you need to invest about $1200 min. plus coffee.

I just give $3 bucks to a barista and call it a day.

[whitekingsalmon]

anyone here ever have turkish coffee??

[CascadeCement]

Turkish coffee blows, try it and tell me I'm wrong.

3 things to make a good espresso, nail them and then look to your beans for adjustment.

1. Grind (particle distribution of fines to coarse is key so has to be burr).

2. Tamp it like a mother to achieve a...

3. 22 second extraction for a double.

[rod9301]

I drink turkish coffee. it's especially good when I go camping or backpacking.

but good anytime.

I do have a big espresso/cappuccino machine, use it every morning for cappuccino, and alsonespresso machine for an espresso in the afternoon.

[whitekingsalmon]

turkish coffee in greece is amazing,,,, but I prefer coffee in italy.

[eldereldo]

Quick Mill Double Boiler and Mazzer Mini. Replaced a Rancilio. Silvia. Doesn't make any better espresso, difference is that it makes the best shot I could ever get out of the Silvia, but 95% of the time instead of 10%. I use whole beans that were roasted no more than a week prior and mostly stick to the same blend. Still need to adjust grind dependent on humidity.

[XXX-er]

nice looking machine & nice to know but also a whole lot mo money than the sylvia and above my pay grade ... I am gona stick with sylvia

[Todd Zander]

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

[KQ]

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

Have you checked out this 2014 review?

Best Espresso Machine – Espresso Machine Reviews

Add: That site gives this Gaggia a good review (looks like it retails for around $350-$400):

Gaggia 14101 Classic Espresso Machine – Best Value Espresso Machine

[Yonder_River]

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

I've had the Gaggia Classic and recommend it as an entry level. As always, the grinder is the first most important thing to buy and not skimp on. Plan on at least $250 for one of those. If you are looking mid level consumer end, I'd recommend the machine I currently have (Crossland CC1) as it has a PID and will produce a more consistent shot.

You might be getting sticker shock as your start to look around so it really depends on how much $$ you have and how happy you want to make your gf.

[narc]

I've had the Gaggia Classic and recommend it as an entry level. As always, the grinder is the first most important thing to buy and not skimp on. Plan on at least $250 for one of those. If you are looking mid level consumer end, I'd recommend the machine I currently have (Crossland CC1) as it has a PID and will produce a more consistent shot.

You might be getting sticker shock as your start to look around so it really depends on how much $$ you have and how happy you want to make your gf.

I have a gaggia classic, these things are so cheap over here - mine was £70 used off ebay.

They are simple machines and to get the best out of them you really need to read up on temp surfing and other techniques; if you do you can save a whole pile of money. I use a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler (£6 off ebay) so I can be precise with the temperature otherwise you are working blind. 6 secs of steam switch before pulling so the boiler is heating up as the cold is going in which minimises the temp drop. For steaming I start exactly before the thermostat trips so the heater never clicks off otherwise in runs out of steam pressure very quickly. My next step is to mod it to be able to manually activate the steam heater coil intra-shot to help hold it consistent. PIDs on these are of limited value on these machines since they can't deal with the intra-shot temp drop without fancy further electronic mods to the PID system using multiple alarms and lots of playing with P, I and D values. Modding the classic to use a silvia steam wand is pretty much a must do too.

More expensive machines get you consistent results without all this messing about and can also knock out many milk drinks one after the other but means you can get into four figures for the privilege.

[Yonder_River]

I have a gaggia classic, these things are so cheap over here - mine was £70 used off ebay.

They are simple machines and to get the best out of them you really need to read up on temp surfing and other techniques; if you do you can save a whole pile of money. I use a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler (£6 off ebay) so I can be precise with the temperature otherwise you are working blind. 6 secs of steam switch before pulling so the boiler is heating up as the cold is going in which minimises the temp drop. For steaming I start exactly before the thermostat trips so the heater never clicks off otherwise in runs out of steam pressure very quickly. My next step is to mod it to be able to manually activate the steam heater coil intra-shot to help hold it consistent. PIDs on these are of limited value on these machines since they can't deal with the intra-shot temp drop without fancy further electronic mods to the PID system using multiple alarms and lots of playing with P, I and D values. Modding the classic to use a silvia steam wand is pretty much a must do too.

More expensive machines get you consistent results without all this messing about and can also knock out many milk drinks one after the other but means you can get into four figures for the privilege.

Ya, I got tired of temp surfing and don't have the interest or time in installing a PID. That is a great price for the classic. I sold mine on Craigslist for $175 a few months ago.

The Crossland CC1 has a digital display, auto adjusts it's temp, and allows for programming like pre-infusion, temp, interval time and shot time. It also has a thermoblock and will steam as long as there is water in it. For $650, it's a good deal versus buying a Silvia and modifying.

[schindlerpiste]

I do. I have a DeLonghi MAGnifica machine and an old school espresso pot. I use Cafe Britt Costa Rican coffee which is available on-line, and which IMHO is the best coffee in the world for the price. You guys should visit www.cafebritt.com Ask Tippster, or skifishbum. They know what I'm talkin' about.

[dcpnz]

I might have to look into upgrading. That cc1 sounds interesting. I also have a Gaggia classic. Been solid for almost a decade now but certainly not perfect.

At risk of diverting thread, anyone know why all of a sudden my shots are coming out quite foamy. Never had a problem like this before. Likely related to change of coffee bean and just not dialed in on volume, grind, tamp but not sure what to change.

[BigKuba]

The Crossland CC1 has a digital display, auto adjusts it's temp, and allows for programming like pre-infusion, temp, interval time and shot time. It also has a thermoblock and will steam as long as there is water in it. For $650, it's a good deal versus buying a Silvia and modifying.

FWIW you can buy a pre-modded Silvia that preserves the warranty. But it's more than $650...

I like mine, even though it takes me a few tries to dial in new beans (except the one a few posts above). Biggest complaint is that it doesn't steam milk as well as the coffee shop, but it's also $20K less than a commercial machine...

[JayPowHound]

I have a saeco aroma I have been quite happy with. ..

My coffee snobbery is still in its infancy tho, so I don't really have much to compare it to

[looseofforangejuice]

+1 vote for hand grinding with a Hario. Cheapest and slickest way to burr grind.

I've been using an Aeropress lately and although it's great, it's not a total substitute for real espresso

[Yonder_River]

I have a saeco aroma I have been quite happy with. ..

My coffee snobbery is still in its infancy tho, so I don't really have much to compare it to

Oh, just wait...

I might have to look into upgrading. That cc1 sounds interesting. I also have a Gaggia classic. Been solid for almost a decade now but certainly not perfect.

At risk of diverting thread, anyone know why all of a sudden my shots are coming out quite foamy. Never had a problem like this before. Likely related to change of coffee bean and just not dialed in on volume, grind, tamp but not sure what to change.

I'm not an expert by any means, but as long as you have good fresh beans, first guesses would be either too course a grind or temp is too high.