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Thread: espresso making mags?

  1. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    But then the long pre-infusion means you have to grind finer.
    Well eventually you hit Turkish and nothing can get through that stubborn head. Just asked the Armenians.

  2. #1677
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    Then you ^^ are poking all the little holes in the porta-fliter clean which sucks

    i just replaced a bad on-off sw on my Sylvia, it worked most of the time until it barely worked sometimes so I had to smack the machine around till it started working and then just use the plug to turn off-on till the new switch arrived
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #1678
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    That’s always been my experience. Depends on how long your preinfusion is. Did the shot run faster than normal when you started extraction ?
    Paid attention on my second cup for the day. Seemed about the same as before. Does that mean all is well? The coffee was great.

  4. #1679
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    What's this i read about Americano?

    True espresso comes in about 25 seconds, 18g of beans, 18 g of espresso liquid out.

    And even less out for ristretto, about 10g out, which, though small, has incredible flavors.

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  5. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Paid attention on my second cup for the day. Seemed about the same as before. Does that mean all is well? The coffee was great.
    Yea, if it tastes good it’s good.

  6. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    What's this i read about Americano?

    True espresso comes in about 25 seconds, 18g of beans, 18 g of espresso liquid out.

    And even less out for ristretto, about 10g out, which, though small, has incredible flavors.

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    Try again.

    If you want to talk about "true" espresso, then Italians get to define it. The legal standard of an Italian espresso 7g +/- 0.5g in, 25ml +/- 2.5gml out. And yes, Italy has a legal definition. And yes...its annoyingly volumetric output which includes the crema. But in no case is 25ml out 7g (1:1) - it's typically 15-18.

    The Specialty Coffee Association of America standard is similar and includes a double which is now the default in vast majority of cafes in the world outside of Italy and select other areas.

    “Espresso is a 25–35ml (.85–1.2 ounce [×2 for double]) beverage prepared from 7–9 grams (14–18 grams for a double) of coffee through which clean water of 195°–205°F (90.5°–96.1°C) has been forced at 9–10 atmospheres of pressure, and where the grind of the coffee is such that the brew time is 20–30 seconds.
    1:1 ratios (18 in / 18 out) is a ristretto by any classical definition.

  7. #1682
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    Ok, we disagree

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  8. #1683
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    espresso making mags?

    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    Well eventually you hit Turkish and nothing can get through that stubborn head. Just asked the Armenians.
    But then you’re not brewing espresso, just boiling grounds in solution.
    Last edited by jackattack; 09-06-2024 at 11:05 PM.

  9. #1684
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    espresso making mags?

    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Try again.

    If you want to talk about "true" espresso, then Italians get to define it. The legal standard of an Italian espresso 7g +/- 0.5g in, 25ml +/- 2.5gml out. And yes, Italy has a legal definition. And yes...its annoyingly volumetric output which includes the crema. But in no case is 25ml out 7g (1:1) - it's typically 15-18.

    The Specialty Coffee Association of America standard is similar and includes a double which is now the default in vast majority of cafes in the world outside of Italy and select other areas.



    1:1 ratios (18 in / 18 out) is a ristretto by any classical definition.
    Just returned from 2 week trip.
    Curiously, I’ve never heard the term ristretto used in Italy.
    Everyone orders caffe. And that implies a very small shot. Smaller than what you’ll see in any North American coffee shop. If they want something that looks like a Starbucks shot, they’ll ask for a Lungo. But if it tastes like a Starbucks shot they’ll probably murder you. If they’re with Americans or Germans, then the term espresso gets used because they’re very cognizant to the difference in expectation.
    Everyone in Italy can pull an awesome shot. From hotels to truck stops to bike shops to mountain top rifugios. Children, adults, grandparents.
    No one in Germany can pull a quality shot. And when you ask for a cappuccino you’ll get a garbage milky latte. When you ask for a macchiato they’ll say “Latte macchiato?” And you need to firmly say “No. Espresso Machiatto”. Then you’ll get something closer to an Italy cappuccino. But the shot will still be garbage.
    Germans are just Americans with an even uglier sounding language who will watch you fall down a flight of stairs then make a point of telling you it was your fault for not understanding stair technology. If they even acknowledge you fell.


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    However many are in a shit ton.

  10. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Try again.

    If you want to talk about "true" espresso, then Italians get to define it. The legal standard of an Italian espresso 7g +/- 0.5g in, 25ml +/- 2.5gml out. And yes, Italy has a legal definition. And yes...its annoyingly volumetric output which includes the crema. But in no case is 25ml out 7g (1:1) - it's typically 15-18.

    The Specialty Coffee Association of America standard is similar and includes a double which is now the default in vast majority of cafes in the world outside of Italy and select other areas.



    1:1 ratios (18 in / 18 out) is a ristretto by any classical definition.
    Thanks for this. As a coffee “enthusiast” I’m always interested in learning more (for great historical fiction try “The Coffee Trader” by David Liss).

    I checked some numbers on my shot this morning and was a bit stymied as my double Pavoni basket (14 g) produced a shot of 46 mls.

    Then I read your post and it seems to be in the ballpark.

    Edit to add: it’s a bad habit but I tend to push more water through the grounds than the Pavoni’s base volume. I’m making a milk drink and don’t mind a little bitterness with a longer extraction.

    So, I just pulled another Pavoni double shot this time with only the water volume in one lever pull and got 29 mls out. What I would expect from an old Italian espresso maker.
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  11. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    Just returned from 2 week trip.
    Curiously, I’ve never heard the term ristretto used in Italy.
    Everyone orders caffe. And that implies a very small shot. Smaller than what you’ll see in any North American coffee shop. If they want something that looks like a Starbucks shot, they’ll ask for a Lungo. But if it tastes like a Starbucks shot they’ll probably murder you. If they’re with Americans or Germans, then the term espresso gets used because they’re very cognizant to the difference in expectation.
    Everyone in Italy can pull an awesome shot. From hotels to truck stops to bike shops to mountain top rifugios. Children, adults, grandparents.
    No one in Germany can pull a quality shot. And when you ask for a cappuccino you’ll get a garbage milky latte. When you ask for a macchiato they’ll say “Latte macchiato?” And you need to firmly say “No. Espresso Machiatto”. Then you’ll get something closer to an Italy cappuccino. But the shot will still be garbage.
    Germans are just Americans with an even uglier sounding language who will watch you fall down a flight of stairs then make a point of telling you it was your fault for not understanding stair technology. If they even acknowledge you fell.


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    And add France to the list. Really hard to get a decent espresso. Spain, Romania, very good.

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  12. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren Jakal View Post
    Thanks for this. As a coffee “enthusiast” I’m always interested in learning more (for great historical fiction try “The Coffee Trader” by David Liss).

    I checked some numbers on my shot this morning and was a bit stymied as my double Pavoni basket (14 g) produced a shot of 46 mls.

    Then I read your post and it seems to be in the ballpark.
    You should try to adjust your grinder to get a 1:1 shot. Just to see the difference

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  13. #1688
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    You should try to adjust your grinder to get a 1:1 shot. Just to see the difference

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    Check my edit above. It will make sense.

    And this shot was gold, Jerry.Click image for larger version. 

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    All conditions, all terrain.
    Expect nothing, don’t be disappointed.
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  14. #1689
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    Germans are just unarmed Americans with an even uglier sounding language who will watch you fall down a flight of stairs then make a point of telling you it was your fault for not understanding stair technology. If they even acknowledge you fell.
    Fixed it for you
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #1690
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    Just got my bambino and trying to pull a decent shot. My old baratza maestro is clearly not up to the task, any tips on grinding for the double wall basket for short term shots?
    Long term grinder upgrade is needed, I have been happy with my maestro for 15 years and an encore esp seems like a logical step for enabling espresso. Am I really going to notice a difference going up to a $500 grinder like a df64? I just want solid easy americanos out of this setup using mid priced dark roasts.
    I have no interest in anything light, fruity or acidic and most medium roasts are getting lighter than I prefer.

  16. #1691
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    Just got my bambino and trying to pull a decent shot. My old baratza maestro is clearly not up to the task, any tips on grinding for the double wall basket for short term shots?
    Long term grinder upgrade is needed, I have been happy with my maestro for 15 years and an encore esp seems like a logical step for enabling espresso. Am I really going to notice a difference going up to a $500 grinder like a df64? I just want solid easy americanos out of this setup using mid priced dark roasts.
    I have no interest in anything light, fruity or acidic and most medium roasts are getting lighter than I prefer.
    I know you said you need tips for the short term, but this honestly made about the biggest difference for my Bambino. A simple single wall basket:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

    Also, if you're not already, use a WDT tool. If you don't have that, order one, and I had decent results using an unfolded paper clip in a pinch. Ghetto but did the trick while I waited for the tool to come in. Haha.

  17. #1692
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    My machine came with single and double wall baskets. 18g on the finest setting on my maestro pulled a single wall double shot in like 5-6 seconds after flow start so I’m not getting enough pressure. Same settings in the double wall gave better results but a bit over extracted. Thinking of trying a bit courser in the double wall until I upgrade grinders.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I know you said you need tips for the short term, but this honestly made about the biggest difference for my Bambino. A simple single wall basket:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

    Also, if you're not already, use a WDT tool. If you don't have that, order one, and I had decent results using an unfolded paper clip in a pinch. Ghetto but did the trick while I waited for the tool to come in. Haha.

  18. #1693
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    My machine came with single and double wall baskets. 18g on the finest setting on my maestro pulled a single wall double shot in like 5-6 seconds after flow start so I’m not getting enough pressure. Same settings in the double wall gave better results but a bit over extracted. Thinking of trying a bit courser in the double wall until I upgrade grinders.
    Interesting! Guess they changed the included accessories. Mine only came with double wall baskets, but in both 1 and 2 shot versions. Did you see my post above out using the pre-infusion feature? I FINALLY discovered that and it makes a nice difference. Might help you out too. I hold the 2-shot button down for about 9-10 seconds, cancel it, let it sit for another 15-20 seconds or so (probably need to dial that in more - not sure what's best), THEN hit the 2-shot button and let it do its thing. Get perfect crema EVERY time now and a very consistent shot.

  19. #1694
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    I need a decent grind before I worry about preinfusion too much but might try it.
    Anyone have thoughts on the Turin df54?

  20. #1695
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    I need a decent grind before I worry about preinfusion too much but might try it.
    Anyone have thoughts on the Turin df54?
    I personally wouldn't recommend a small diameter flat burr grinder as a good grinder for someone getting into espresso. Flat burrs are good, but IME there is a more limited range of tolerance for pulling a good shot. Conicals - due to the fines they create - can be much more forgiving.

    If I wanted a budget espresso grinder I'd get a Comandante, Timemore, or 1zpresso. I hand ground espresso for 6 years before getting an electric grinder.

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  21. #1696
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    I would err conical based on what I have read and preference for full bodied shots but there are fewer options. Are flats significantly harder to dial in?

    Not interested in a hand grinder.

    Good options under $500 seem to be:
    Conical: baratza esp, sd40s sette 30 used niche zero
    Flats: df54, df64, eureka mignon

    The Turin grinders seem to offer a nicer feature set for the dollar than the other options, the consensus I have read says df54 over sd40s for the small price difference but open to other opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    I personally wouldn't recommend a small diameter flat burr grinder as a good grinder for someone getting into espresso. Flat burrs are good, but IME there is a more limited range of tolerance for pulling a good shot. Conicals - due to the fines they create - can be much more forgiving.

    If I wanted a budget espresso grinder I'd get a Comandante, Timemore, or 1zpresso. I hand ground espresso for 6 years before getting an electric grinder.

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  22. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    I would err conical based on what I have read and preference for full bodied shots but there are fewer options. Are flats significantly harder to dial in?

    Not interested in a hand grinder.

    Good options under $500 seem to be:
    Conical: baratza esp, sd40s sette 30 used niche zero
    Flats: df54, df64, eureka mignon

    The Turin grinders seem to offer a nicer feature set for the dollar than the other options, the consensus I have read says df54 over sd40s for the small price difference but open to other opinions.
    used niche zero

    /thread

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  23. #1698
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    I am mostly happy with my DF64 but wouldn’t recommend a flat burr for someone pulling dark roasts on a Bambino.


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  24. #1699
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    The niche seems nice but I don’t love the look and it’s at least $500. It’s supposed to be easy to use but not sure it’s worth the price premium.

    If I limit the selection to $250 that gives me options for sd40, df54, encore esp. I also see used Rocky’s pop up for like $150. If there a clear winner here? The df54 wins on features but if the esp or sd40 is going to make coffee I like more I am happy to go that route.

  25. #1700
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlh View Post
    The niche seems nice but I don’t love the look and it’s at least $500. It’s supposed to be easy to use but not sure it’s worth the price premium.

    If I limit the selection to $250 that gives me options for sd40, df54, encore esp. I also see used Rocky’s pop up for like $150. If there a clear winner here? The df54 wins on features but if the esp or sd40 is going to make coffee I like more I am happy to go that route.
    it's absolutely worth the price premium, and it falls into the bottom of the "buy once, cry once" category of equipment. you could upgrade your espresso machine 3 times and still have the niche as a worth companion - at the price it's not just good, it's stupid good. the niche regularly outperforms grinders that cost twice as much in blind cupping competition, and the workflow is among the best I've ever used.

    $250 doesn't really get you much. I would try to find a used Sette 270 maybe, but even that feels like a far cry from the Niche.

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