espresso making mags?

[pechelman]

teh lolz

[FlimFlam]

Hey guys this is a little off topic but I could use some feedback.

I have been looking into good instant freeze dried espresso/coffee that doesn't taste like Sanka. I want to see if there is a market for it within outdoors/camping/hunting stores. I think I have found a suitable product but would like some outside input. I can probably get about 10 sample bags out in the next week. If your interested in giving me a hand please PM me.

[moose pit]

Hey guys this is a little off topic but I could use some feedback.

I have been looking into good instant freeze dried espresso/coffee that doesn't taste like Sanka. I want to see if there is a market for it within outdoors/camping/hunting stores. I think I have found a suitable product but would like some outside input. I can probably get about 10 sample bags out in the next week. If your interested in giving me a hand please PM me.

The only time freeze dried coffee is acceptable is *if* you are really fucking desperate and then only if you scoop a tablespoon of the stuff in to your mouth and chase it (rehydrate it) with cheap bourbon.


In the bush I just find a suitable tree, fall the fucker, then make my espresso on the stump

[FlimFlam]

Believe me Moose I understand your skepticism. Instant is huge over in europe and the product has come a long ways. That said it is not as good as a true shot pulled from a good machine...but if your going into the woods for 3-5 days and don't feel like carrying your Ranchilio single group with you this could be an acceptable replacement.

As an FYI I have brought this into a local cafe for the owners to try and they actually liked it more than their regular drip.

I missed the set on the stump...NICE!!!

[Core Shot]

well, I finally got the fully automatic espresso maker I have lusted after.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Saeco/odea_go.cfm




No particular reason for getting this model, other than I had a shitload of credit card points that were expiring and this was the one they had available.

Totally stoked on my own espresso with NONE of the hassle of tamping, rinsing, and grinding.
I only hope it lasts long enough before it inevitably breaks down as they all do.

Mmmmm

[couloirman]

I have less than 300 to spend on an espresso machine/grinder for my new place, should I even bother?

Is a machine like this even remotely worth the money?

[pechelman]

should you bother, yes

is that one worth it, no

for that budget, go for one of these

and

one of these or these


i own that gaggia color in the silver color which means its called the Dose. They also make a black one, thats identical to the Red one thats called the Color, called the Pure. Not more than a few months ago they were selling Colors and Pures for 199 shipped, NIB. Maybe call around and see if theyll do that? wholelattelove and espressozone are who id try first.


I think my Dose is a decent machine, very consistent, and pulls some pretty good pump shots.
highlights are the stainless boiler, 58mm commercial portafilter, full brass grouphead, removable resevoir, and a stupid easy modifiable steamwand to make really nice microfoam. (you just need to slide the o-ring down one notch)
The only difference between the Dose, Color, and Pure models, besides the color is the fact that the Dose has a dosing feature that you will never use. I just wanted silver.

temperature stability is pretty excellent on mine
i let it heat up for 15-20 mins, and then pull shots right when the light turns off. Ive measured it over the course of 30 minutes after many shots, and the water coming out the group is always 199-201F. I consistently pull shots that are 70ish % crema with single origin beans (no robusta) that I roast myself. Fresh beans are key with any espresso.

for the grinders, youre pretty much limited to a hand grinder imo
those vintage ones will all do the job and give you a super consistent \ fluffy grind
maybe not as consistent as a 600$ macap, but definitely more fluffy and no static and no waste.

the newer hand crank ones are supposedly really nice and last forever. ie ceramic burrs. cant go wrong with either, and if you get tired cranking, just hook it up to your electric drill \ screwdriver.

[shirk]

Picked up a Breville Cafe Roma on points from Save-On. It's our first machine. We have a low end burr grinder that my mom gave me, jury is out on if it does a good enough job on the grind.

First small batch of beans we used the grocery store grinder set on "Espresso" and I think that was a mistake, the grind does not seem fine enough or consistent.

The Cafe Roma uses a pressurized filter basket, from the reading I've done it will give an okay shot and not need to be worried so much about the grind or the tamp. I'll look into picking up a non pressurized basket soon.

I need to pick up some clear shot glasses so I can see what I am getting for crema and the right amount.

[pechelman]

Picked up a Breville Cafe Roma on points from Save-On. It's our first machine. We have a low end burr grinder that my mom gave me, jury is out on if it does a good enough job on the grind.

First small batch of beans we used the grocery store grinder set on "Espresso" and I think that was a mistake, the grind does not seem fine enough or consistent.

The Cafe Roma uses a pressurized filter basket, from the reading I've done it will give an okay shot and not need to be worried so much about the grind or the tamp. I'll look into picking up a non pressurized basket soon.

I need to pick up some clear shot glasses so I can see what I am getting for crema and the right amount.

of note, part of the reason i suggested against that Starbucks machine that c-man posted was the pressurized filter basket.

you should be able to modify the basket just fine by cutting or drilling out the hole, or just buying a new basket all together, but its nice to start with a machine thats using good parts and uses readily available 58mm commercial parts.

as far as those cafe romas, Id not suggest one of those either as they are a thermoblock machine, which have a very difficult time at keeping stable temperatures, and are notorious for scorching coffee.

[FlimFlam]

This is my personal machine.
It makes unbelievably consistent shots of espresso.

http://www.lavazza.com/corporate/en/...azza_BLUE.html

[pechelman]

^
heh
i would hope so

[willywhit]

damn, that Expobar is flippin sweet.
We;ve got a krups combo, maybe $250 or so and it's legit for pumpin out a real shot. I'll spring for some Lavazza super crema but usually just pack the extra strong jinky brasil powder. lil cinnamon and some steamed milk

finally got a bag of lavazza and I'm starting to realize that the usual low budget espresso beans are crap. after sniffing the good beans and then the cheap ones it's so obvious. I made a shot of each and there's a big diff. Guess I gotta start coughing up way more for the good stuff cuz I love coffee.

[couloirman]

wow, gaggias have gotten some pretty awful reviews on amazon, dont know if I wanna risk it or just sack up to the 4-500 price point and get something better. decisions, decisions...

[pechelman]

wow, gaggias have gotten some pretty awful reviews on amazon, dont know if I wanna risk it or just sack up to the 4-500 price point and get something better. decisions, decisions...

what have they been saying and for which models?

mine works excellently

[StormDay]

Finally decided to spend the $$ on the local roaster espresso Blue Bottle Coffee Co. http://bluebottlecoffee.net/


1st cup was a near religious experience.

[couloirman]

what have they been saying and for which models?

mine works excellently

i was just reading that they seemed flimsy, theres too much plastic, the boilers are really small and they leak everywhere. This was for both the dose model, and the baby. Im about to maybe pull the trigger on a gaggia factory 106 and just go straight to a lever machine but am nervous itll be so much work for me that I wont make enough use out of it. How do you like your new lever machine?

[comish]

Here is a little tip I have just had the unfortunate experience to learn. Don't leave your espresso machine on for 4 days. When you come home your pump is likely to be toast, or worse your boiler. Otherwise I still dig my Expobar.

[MTT]

Dude, tell your ex that the sylvia rocky combo is only about a grand Isn't good coffee enough justification? You spend about $850 per year going to Starbucks to get your daily latte. So in a few years, you actually saved a few bucks (minus the cost of buying your beans).

I only know this in theory. I have not yet bought my espresso machine, but I have one on the wedding registry for next year. Now it's just the waiting game... Come on Sylvia!

850$ per year? is that the Average.

I have to say that I honestly spend app 50$ per week at the Coffee shop.

That sound rediculous but any value in the Social aspects of heading to the coffee shop 2 or three times a day. (I work from home)

And its much cheper than a daily visit to the local pub

[MakeFast]

i was just reading that they seemed flimsy, theres too much plastic, the boilers are really small and they leak everywhere. This was for both the dose model, and the baby. Im about to maybe pull the trigger on a gaggia factory 106 and just go straight to a lever machine but am nervous itll be so much work for me that I wont make enough use out of it. How do you like your new lever machine?

Wow...there is a bunch of information in this thread that will have you making some really really crappy espresso. I'm not even going to touch the rest of the stuff, but can respond to this.

I have owned and/or have extensive experience with: 2 group commercial, Expobar Pulser (HX machine), Andreja Premium (HX machine), La Spaz Vivaldi II (2x Boiler), La Pavoni (lever - identical to the Gaggia Factory), Olympia Cremina (lever). The only one I still own is the Cremina.

All of my advice is assuming you have a quality grinder - if you don't, then you won't be making great espresso. With that being said, I love the lever machines. There is a fair learning curve if you have no knowledge (tamping, grind, pressure, etc) and don't expect to be pulling great shots from the start, but it won't take long before you go all zen and pull something wonderful. All of the machines have different strengths/weaknesses, but don't let the lever scare you.

Buy some quality coffee (nothing vacuum sealed - check for a roast-on date), get a good grinder, and the lever machine will work wonders for you.

[pechelman]

i was just reading that they seemed flimsy, theres too much plastic, the boilers are really small and they leak everywhere. This was for both the dose model, and the baby. Im about to maybe pull the trigger on a gaggia factory 106 and just go straight to a lever machine but am nervous itll be so much work for me that I wont make enough use out of it. How do you like your new lever machine?

theyre plasticy on the outside, but thats not really whats important.
the boiler is small, but its stainless. most of the other machines in this range have aluminum boilers.

because the boiler is small, its fully preheated in 10-15 minutes (the light goes off after about 5 mins, but it needs a couple cycles to get everything hot)
my boiler has never leaked. I turn the machine off when im done and keep it clean. Not sure how it leaks for everyone else.
also on the small boiler, ive dont temperature profiles of it with my k-thermocouple and its pushed out 199F water for 2oz.
doesnt really get much better than that honestly without spending a few hundred on a PID kit for whatever machine.

If you go lever, id not reccomend going with a factory to start. Theyre a bit more quirky and tend to overheat after 4 shots. Plus, pressure fed boiler machines like that are kinda annoying when you're just learning because if you run low on water, youve gotta bleed the system before you can refil. If you want a lever, checkout either an elektra or ponte vecchio export or even a vintage machine like what i have.

Honestly, i love my lever i havent pulled a shot on my pump since. I sorta want to just to judge the difference now that i have my lever 95% dialed. Now, I just the pump machine to steam milk since my lever is an open\gravity fed kettle machine.

if you want, id be happy to show you both machines so you can get an idea what you're in for. Just bring over whatever beans you like and we'll goto town. just pm me (im in 80125 for ref)

[MakeFast]

If you go lever, id not reccomend going with a factory to start. Theyre a bit more quirky and tend to overheat after 4 shots. Plus, pressure fed boiler machines like that are kinda annoying when you're just learning because if you run low on water, youve gotta bleed the system before you can refil. If you want a lever, checkout either an elektra or ponte vecchio export or even a vintage machine like what i have.

Honestly, i love my lever i havent pulled a shot on my pump since. I sorta want to just to judge the difference now that i have my lever 95% dialed. Now, I just the pump machine to steam milk since my lever is an open\gravity fed kettle machine.

if you want, id be happy to show you both machines so you can get an idea what you're in for. Just bring over whatever beans you like and we'll goto town. just pm me (im in 80125 for ref)

I will extend the invitation to check out a lever machine (PDX here).

Pechel - la peppina? Always seemed like an interesting design.

And, as a side note, the Factory is the exact same (with some extra aluminum) as a La Pavoni, so shop for both - buy whichever you can find a good deal on (if you decide to go the lever route).

[Toadman]

finally got a bag of lavazza and I'm starting to realize that the usual low budget espresso beans are crap. after sniffing the good beans and then the cheap ones it's so obvious. I made a shot of each and there's a big diff. Guess I gotta start coughing up way more for the good stuff cuz I love coffee.

I've got a hook-up for same day fresh roasted coffee beans. (Although, it usually is just a once a month thing.) I have to say, just like fresh brewed beer, there is nothing like same day fresh roasted coffee beans.

[pechelman]

I will extend the invitation to check out a lever machine (PDX here).

Pechel - la peppina? Always seemed like an interesting design.

And, as a side note, the Factory is the exact same (with some extra aluminum) as a La Pavoni, so shop for both - buy whichever you can find a good deal on (if you decide to go the lever route).

peppinas are nice as well and i was including that in my "vintage machine" comment. Also add in there a como conticafe. very similar to a peppina but with a glass kettle and upgraded group. If I could get any lever machine, i think Id go for a Ponte Veccio Lusso single group.
Unfortunately, i cant justify that, but im trying to justify its little brother the Export.

worth noting to c-man, a lot of these vintage era italian machines, ie peppina and caravel and bruni etc, will require the use of a 220-110v step up transformer.

also, while a gaggia factory and pavoni DO have models that are identical to one another, the premillenium pavonis are different. They have a 49mm portafilter and smaller grouphead which tends to overheat more quickly. The newer ones, pavoni and gaggia factory, both have 51mm iirc.

[couloirman]

thanks for the offer pech, but Im moving to Boston tomorrow for kinda sorta med school Ill look into some of the other lever options you mentioned, I'm kinda dead set on a lever machine now so its good to hear the opinions of people who know a lot more than I do about it. I really almost pulled the trigger on the gaggia factory(cause it was only 500 and money is a factor cause Im also justifying one of those fancypants grinders) but that does sound like a kinda pain with the pressure fed system and bleeding it an what not, but the overheating after 4 shots isnt as much of an issue for me as Id usually pull 4 shots at a time, not more. gonna keep my eyes out for a good deal on a lever and will report back soon...

[pechelman]

ps, c-man

i assume you're talking about those Factories on ebay from wholelattelove?

I offered them 499, they counteroffered with 549.
I asked them to list it BIN for 549, and used the 10% bing.com cashback, and got if for 494. It was very very hard to pass that up, so I didnt.
Ive been watching used Pavoni Pro's, basically the same thing, go on ebay for 350-450 used.

theyre excellent machines, just a lot to manage when you're starting out.
but once you get there, you're there, and you can do it consistently.
sorta like a skier wanting to get better hopping on a pair of legend pros.
itll take a good 10-20 days of figuring it out \ getting stronger, but you're all the better for it in the end.

supposedly, functionally, these gaggia factories act a little different than the pavonis. something about a click at the top of the lever stroke. not sure what that really means yet. Im also going to be trying to find an M6x1 Stainless Acorn nut to make a new steam wand tip.