Carve plate on wide ski for adjustability?

[The Dad]

Thanks, pisteoff -- that squares with my experience with the P4s too.

[pdontthink]

Thanks for this thread. I'm currently trying to learn more about using a carve plate for the same purpose (adjustability) myself. I am working with a set of K2 ObSETHed skis for which I want to have the option of playing with the mount point to better understand how mount point affects the ski and find my sweet spot on the skis.

This is the only thread I've found that *specifically* addresses the topic of using a carve plate for doing this. The usual answer is to go with the RailFlex binding system. I haven't completely ruled out the RailFlex, but there are enough people who express hesitation about the RailFlex that I'd like to learn more about what I can do with a carve plate.

So maybe the main question is: How "adjustable" is a carve plate?

I realize it probably won't provide a fine-tuning solution, but I don't really understand how much "adjustability" it can provide. If the plate is mounted at the recommended neutral position, can the bindings be moved +1cm? -1cm? +3cm? -3cm? What?

Also, if the bindings are moved frequently enough, is there any risk of creating problems (slop?) with the carve plate?

P.S. - I haven't ever mounted my own skis, but am handy enough, so I'm also assuming that screwing a set of bindings to the carve plate isn't rocket science.

[pdontthink]

FYI, on a thread I started about this topic at epicski, someone was gracious enough to calculate and post the possible adjustments you can make for different BSLs on the Tyrolia plates.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/...g#post_1144772

That person also suggested that a blank Vist plate might be a good option, allowing you to drill several sets of binding mount holes so you can create more mounting options than the (at most) three you're stuck with on the Tyrolia. However, I haven't been able to find any info about that plate and would love to hear people's opinions about it (is it a flexible, non-race plate? will shops be willing to drill it for, say, 5 binding mounts? etc.) as well as where I can find it.

[Wild4umlauts]

I have used the Tyrolia Carve plates on many sets of skis (but mostly to swap bindings and just in case I wanted to move a mount position).

It looks like the latest plate models from Tyrolia may have more toe position holes than the 3 options available of the older versions:
http://www.tyrolia.com/public/ski-bi...tes/index.html

If you don't already have Tyrolia bindings to mount you might consider the Vist Speedlock setup (but I don't have any personal experience with it). I think I've read that it's fairly bomber and not prone to slop out like a Railflex setup.

[haydukelives]

there are way more than 3 options with tyrolia , especially with shorter bsl because you can move the boot on the track as well as the three binding positions

[Wild4umlauts]

there are way more than 3 options with tyrolia , especially with shorter bsl because you can move the boot on the track as well as the three binding positions

I think you're referring to the Railflex and I don't think he's leaning in that direction.

[pdontthink]

I have used the Tyrolia Carve plates on many sets of skis (but mostly to swap bindings and just in case I wanted to move a mount position).

It looks like the latest plate models from Tyrolia may have more toe position holes than the 3 options available of the older versions:
http://www.tyrolia.com/public/ski-bi...tes/index.html

Good call. Thanks. That could be the final decision maker for me (right, hayduke is thinking RailFlex, which is NOT the topic here), but I'd sure like to hear from people who can confirm the adjustability range of these (not to mention how well they work) before I take the plunge.

Vist just seem too obscure (and probably over-priced) for the average skier like me. I can't make heads or tails of their website or product catalog.

From the pics, it looks like the newest Tyrolia plates have almost as much mounting possibilities as the RailFlex system does. But Tyrolia isn't exactly forthcoming with details on their website about it. Nor can I tell what the on-the-snow differences are between the Speedplate Plus, Ultraflex and Power Plate are.

ANYONE?? What's the adjustability of these things? How well do they work?

If you don't already have Tyrolia bindings to mount you might consider the Vist Speedlock setup (but I don't have any personal experience with it). I think I've read that it's fairly bomber and not prone to slop out like a Railflex setup.

I tried to grok the Vist catalog but it's really terse (mediocre translation doesn't help) and lacks descriptions and information for someone trying to understand and evaluate their equipment. And I don't really see many dealers online, which makes me think Vist is out of my price range anyway.

Since I haven't ruled RailFlex out entirely, I suppose I would be interested in hearing what other people have to say about Speeklock. So please, if you've got experience with it, what do you think? Is it a direct competitor for the RailFlex? How does it fare?

[rabbit]

One advantage with the vist speedlock is that you can use any binding. Buy multiple plates, mount race-binders, duke, dynafits, telebinders, whatever...

fwiw

[pdontthink]

I've seen one or two people say that, but the Vist site specifically says you need to buy Vist bindings and lots of other threads I've read contradict you. The lack of authoritative information about Vist equipment is a real head-scratcher. Where do you even buy the stuff anyway?

[Wild4umlauts]

It looks like Vist's distribution in North America sucks ass this year. You would have a tough time getting answers or the product - sorry to send you down a bad path.

I love my Tyrolia binders - get your hands on a set of those newer plates (not sure which model) mount 'em up and just ski.

[The Dad]

I realized that one of the pairs of plates I have is not 13mm, as I'd thought, but 23mm. I.e., just shy of an inch. Trying to decide whether to put them on the Stockli Stormriders. Who knows.

[pdontthink]

Bump. Anyone know just how adjustable the newest Tyrolia plates are? Are they reasonably flexible? How tall are they? Where can I buy them? Maybe I need to call Tyrolia myself. Hmmm.

[The Dad]

Height is easy to find -- Google "tyrolia technical data pdf." The same page will also have a link to the technical manual, which will instruct you on installing the plates and putting bindings on them. Flex, I couldn't tell you.

[pdontthink]

Thanks for the tip. You're right, height is easy enough to find. However, presumably because the plates are not designed specifically for this use, there is no information, even in the mounting instructions, regarding how many binding mount holes there are and how much one can play with the mount point.

The pictures are not good enough to say for certain, but I'm guessing most of them have at least 5 toe and 5 heel points. That might be pretty decent -- many BSLs would then get -2cm, -1cm, 0cm, 1cm, 2cm (uhh, are the holes 1cm apart???).

There's no information in any of their manuals and whatnot that gives me the sales pitch for these plates. Just a few one-liners enumerating the "features" of each plate without any details about the intended use of each plate or anything at all. Do I have to call them? Seek out a Tyrolia shop?

[scotia]

I have some Vist plates on skis, allows for a fair amount of movement back and forward, I don't have them here but next time I am home I will look at them in more detail and post some info if anyone is interested. Check them out here. These are only compatible with the Vist bindings.

[The Dad]

Thanks for the tip. You're right, height is easy enough to find. However, presumably because the plates are not designed specifically for this use, there is no information, even in the mounting instructions, regarding how many binding mount holes there are and how much one can play with the mount point.

The holes are 1cm apart. Looking at the pictures, there appear to be five sets fore and aft for use by the non-SL bindings. That's consistent with the claimed 114mm BSL range.

[Wild4umlauts]

Thought I'd update this thread with the latest solution from Tyrolia for the 2010-11 season. Tyrolia is scrapping the Railflex II stuff with a replacement called the PowerRail and PowerRail Pro. The new PowerRail stuff is wider (better for those fat boards), bomber built, and completely tool-less in operation. You can purchase and mount PowerRail systems on any ski and buy additional rails (just like you could with the Railflex) for your other skis. The new system is also lower in overall stand height.

Also note that the system now provides independent adjustment for the toe and the heel without requiring a screwdriver. This means that it can be used to adjust fore/aft binding mount position on-slope quickly and easily. And the best part - there's really no limit now to how many positions are available.

I haven't personally skied the new system yet, but I'm hopeful that this will be the solution it promises to be.

[XXX-er]

This is the conventional wisdom, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Some people claim the feel like their on high heels with lots of lift, others like it. .

I have put 20mm g3 risers under tele bindings ,with leather boots it was a setup which would give you a lot of feel for any changes & I could make out exactly zero difference

think how much difference would be apparent with a 130 flex ski boot and a big wide ski?

and of course racers wouldnt use something that didnt make them go faster

I think people just look at a high stack height and feel/think they are too high ...just like when yer GF sez "I think these pants make my ass look fat"

I am betting in a blind test where buddy doesnt look down at his bindings and goes for a ski ... nobody would be able to tell the difference


the leverge issues of a higher stack MIGHT be a problem if you are rail sliding but I don't know what any of that shit is about

[pdontthink]

Thought I'd update this thread with the latest solution from Tyrolia for the 2010-11 season. Tyrolia is scrapping the Railflex II stuff with a replacement called the PowerRail and PowerRail Pro. The new PowerRail stuff is wider (better for those fat boards), bomber built, and completely tool-less in operation.

Sounds like Tyrolia's response to Marker's Schizo. I ended up with the Schizo, which has suited my needs very well, but tool-less operation and being able to use it on another set of rails sounds pretty cool. Do you have any links to see it and its specs?

[Wild4umlauts]

pdontthink - unfortunately nothing is published to the public just yet. I'll try to grab some pics though and post 'em up.

[daviski]

Sounds like Tyrolia's response to Marker's Schizo. I ended up with the Schizo, which has suited my needs very well, but tool-less operation and being able to use it on another set of rails sounds pretty cool. Do you have any links to see it and its specs?

Any further input on the PowerRail system ? ---- It seems to have addressed issues (esp stand height and required tools) that prevented me from going with the railflex II

These also seem to have a flat ramp angle. I had begun the search for Griffon demos until I sow the details of this system

The real world difference between the pro-plate vs regular base isn't clear; there is inevitable slop in an adjustable system -- does the pro plate help reduce it?