the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[gregL]

Question for the boot pros:

Just bought a pair of hawx prime xtd 130s on steep and cheap (deal too good to pass up). Tried them on today and am really pleased with the fit right out if the box - heel hold feels solid, and its nice and tight all over without any bad pain. Only minor issue is a little pain over the instep, where there appears to be some of the mimic plastic. The pain isn’t bad at all, but I wouldn’t mind making a little more room there to avoid any issues when I’m touring. I wouldn’t mind a little more room in the toe box either, but its not imperative.

What’s my best bet here? Im thinking about doing an intuituon-esque liner molding with some hot rice, add some padding to the instep, and not buckling too tight. That make sense? Or better to just grit through it for a few days and see if it resolves? I’d like to avoid making any more room around the heel if I can.

I’m not inclined to do a full shell and liner molding treatment at the moment given how nice the fit is right now, but lmk if you disagree. Local bootfitter isn’t working on boots purchased elsewhere right now either, so not sure its even possible without DIYing it. (I could do this I think, but would rather not risk screwing them up)

Thanks for all the help - appreciate all you guys do here.

There is no real downside to heat molding the Hawx Prime XTD. and you'll get the extra instep room you want. Put self-adhesive foam (usually 1/8" if the problem isn't severe) and cook the shells (just do the shells if the fit is good elsewhere). PM me if you want details.

[waxloaf]

Thanks guys. Pm incoming Greg

[Jongle]

How easy/hard is it to punch the Hawx Ultra XTDs for a small Hagnlund's deformity without messing up the walk mech? I was planning on doing a home spot mold with a heat gun and some padding on my heel, but the problem area is so close to the walk mode hardware...

[gregL]

How easy/hard is it to punch the Hawx Ultra XTDs for a small Hagnlund's deformity without messing up the walk mech? I was planning on doing a home spot mold with a heat gun and some padding on my heel, but the problem area is so close to the walk mode hardware...

It's not that easy, and your foot is likely not strong enough to do it at home. If you overdo the punch, you won't be able to get the lever back in place.

[Jongle]

It's not that easy, and your foot is likely not strong enough to do it at home. If you overdo the punch, you won't be able to get the lever back in place.

Damn. What's the right move then, take it to a proper bootfitter who can do a grind?

[gregL]

Damn. What's the right move then, take it to a proper bootfitter who can do a grind?

Don't grind, the shell is too thin. If you find a bootfitter that's done a couple and knows from trial and error how much they can get away with, try punching. Usually it interferes with the walk mode lever a bit, but you can whack it with your palm to get it to engage if the punch is not overdone. Obviously it depends on where exactly the pressure is, helps if it isn't directly under the lever connection. If that's a no-go, try sticking a piece of self-adhesive foam inside the heel of the shell with a hole cut where the bone spur is (will change your forward lean a bit).

[TAFKALVS]

Alright, I'm in a quandary and I need thoughts from the collective.

I'm struggling with with internal boot length vs internal volume (height, lower shell throat, cuff flex point, etc.) and overall just tired of putting up with foot discomfort/lack of control. I'm looking for wisdom from the collective. I've bounced between a 26.5 and 27.5 in a lot of boots and am not happy with fit in either size. As I have gotten older, I feel increasingly unable to ignore the discomfort and I have cut ski days short due to the problem.

My feet are ~100 MM wide at the 5th metatarsal. Measure 276mm(R)/277mm(L) in length. Normally wear about a 10 - 10.5 street shoe. Big toe on both feet is much longer than the other toes by probably 5mm. Medium instep, but my foot is like a wedge and very low volume just past the front on the instep. Cankles for ankles, and pretty big calves that sit fairly low. Normal to slightly wide heels, I have to have the heel pocket widened on Langes.

Ski ~50 - 70 days a season. Like skiing fast, like feeling precision/feedback from my boots. Ski big/powerful skis although less so recently. 5'10, 200lbs, used to spend a lot of time in the gym. Can flex a boot and prefer a stiff boot for that reason.

I've been skiing in Lange RX130 for about 10 years. In recent history, I have also skied the Lange XT Free and XT3, and the Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro.

I have used stock liners and Intuition Powerwraps. Also just got a pair of Zipfit Gara to try.

Fit notes:

RX130:
27.5, 1.5 finger fit. fits well for length from a comfort perspective. But internal volume from over the instep forward is too tall + the "throat" around the lower shell feels too tall, which causes discomfort when flexing foward/pressure points on shin. In difficult snow, lack of control. Often feel the need to "over buckle" the boot, which then results in numb feet. Can feel ankle/feet rolling inside the boot. Not comfortable at all. Overall, a feeling of disconnected/vagueness. In difficult snow conditions the lack of precise fit/and security around the forefoot results in "clawing" with the toes and arch cramps. Plus an overall lack of control, and feeling like I'm unable to escape the backseat. Tried shims under the liner to find the top of the boot, better but still feels cavernous.

26.5, 1 finger fit. fits amazing from a volume perspective. Feels very precise, especially with Powerwrap liners. However, even with an aggressive punch and grind in the toe box, I feel like my toes are crammed in a pair of rock shoes. If I'm not perfectly flexed at all times I get wicked toe bang/and step kicking, walking down hill etc is horrible. Toes are all curled up and smashed together. Again, especially if it's day 3 of skiing in a row and my toes are feeling beat up/feet are a little swollen it sucks. Currently running Powerwraps which probably don't help the volume problems but they ski super well and are warm. My shins tend to not love tongue liners (feel pressure points), but the powerwraps are super comfortable. Previously was transferring very packed out RX130 liners from boot to boot (Have had 3 pairs of RX130, these were from the "green/white" version) but they got so worn out that they were too cold and the tongue started to tear. The other liners in the RX130 seemed to pinch my achilles and squeeze the heck out of my calves.

Lange XT Free:
27.5, 2 finger fit. Swimming. Same issue as the RX130 but even worse. Interior last feels bigger.

26.5, 1 finger fit. even with a toe punch, not enough length. Ended up not skiing a pretty rad looking peak at the Euro BBI as the thought of walking downhill was unbearable by that point in the trip. Like almost couldn't walk, darn near crippled.

Lange XT3:
27.5 fits much better than the XT Free/RX130 27.5, feels like volume is less and actually comfortable with zero bootwork. But also still not a precise as I would like, and when the snow gets difficult starts feeling a bit big when skiing inbounds. Fine in good pow, but in alpental type snow feel big. Have been running 26.0 powerwraps that were molded to my RX130 which might be a problem as the liners are molded to a lower volume RX130 and move around a little bit. Stock liners give me shin pressure and cause feet to go numb due to pinch in the achilles area. End up skiing with a shim under the liner to help take up volume.

Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro:
Felt too big/long, especially in the heel pocket. Got heel lift while skiing. Stock liners were garbage. Sold them before messing with them further. Probably should have gone 26.5 but was afraid of toe bang.

Okay, sweet blog/diary.

Asks for the collective:

Overall, I'm dying to have an alpine or crossover boot that is both comfortable and offers decent control/precision. I'm open to any brand/style of boot including a 3 piece boot. Or suggestions to make my current boot quiver work.

Thoughts on an alpine boot that is not a plug (been down that road, too much work to take on/off), precise, low volume but has a long internal length? Ie the longest 26.5 so I can toe punch and actually have room? (A magic 27.0?)

Finally, in the same vein, is there a stiffish low volume touring boot I should look at, again that magic low volume but long internal last?

Am I trying to have my cake and eat it to? Or is this achievable? Or do I just need to stop being a wimp and not obsess so much about boot fit?

Final question:
My Lange RX130 26.5 fits from a "finger the shell" perspective per 3 different bootfitters at various times. Am I in the right boot (26.5 Lange RX130) and I just need to get the liner right? Is it possible to have comfort and also precision? Should I consider trying a very low volume liner like a Powerwrap Plug or a lace up Plug liner? Tried a Zipfit Gara but it was the opposite of what I felt like I needed - too high volume/stiff around the cuff/heel but too low volume over the forefoot/instep. Ended up pushing me out of the heel pocket and making the toe bang worse plus felt like my forefoot was swimming.

On the same token, should I just accept the decent but not "race" fit of the XT3 and just get a pair of powerwraps molded specifically to those shells to take up volume?

[mntlion]

1) can you convert fingers to mm please?

2) Sounds like a true low volume 27 should work? Other then the on/off factor a race boot/plug should be great for you?

3) in the 26's you have a good supportive custom footbed made for ski boots, to help hold/keep your heel back prevent the foot from rolling inward? As the foot collapses inward the big toe shoots forward

4) Talk to a fitter about the 26 and see if they can do a HUGE punch for the toe, and if they destroy the shell that's OK (as you can't use it now anyways)

5) Maybe a foam liner, or a really high volume/low density intuition in the 27 boots to help hold your foot in place?

6) or maybe a really low volume liner in the 26 to give you volume?

[GoldenBC]

How easy/hard is it to punch the Hawx Ultra XTDs for a small Hagnlund's deformity without messing up the walk mech? I was planning on doing a home spot mold with a heat gun and some padding on my heel, but the problem area is so close to the walk mode hardware...

I punched mine (at my shop with a real punch) and it made my walk mode not line up. So I punched the other side of the heel to straighten it out and let it close easy. That worked well. Technically I guess that boot has more forward lean but it wasn’t noticeable as it’s probably a quarter of a degree.

[gregL]

I punched mine (at my shop with a real punch) and it made my walk mode not line up. So I punched the other side of the heel to straighten it out and let it close easy. That worked well. Technically I guess that boot has more forward lean but it wasn’t noticeable as it’s probably a quarter of a degree.

Same here, I punched the other side a bit at a time until the lever would close, saved me having to get the guy a new shell. Makes me uneasy to recommend this approach, though.

[SkiLyft]

@LVS — maybe you’re not a Lange guy? Get out into the wild world of atomic, dalbello, head and see if anything else fits mo betta.


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[NW_SKIER]

@LVS — maybe you’re not a Lange guy? Get out into the wild world of atomic, dalbello, head and see if anything else fits mo betta.


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Get out

[MagnificentUnicorn]

@LVS — maybe you’re not a Lange guy? Get out into the wild world of atomic, dalbello, head and see if anything else fits mo betta.


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All of his “kit” has to come from the same group silly.


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[YaBoyBlue]

Alright, I'm in a quandary and I need thoughts from the collective.

Can feel ankle/feet rolling inside the boot. Not comfortable at all. Overall, a feeling of disconnected/vagueness. In difficult snow conditions the lack of precise fit/and security around the forefoot results in "clawing" with the toes and arch cramps.

If your arch collapses easy and/or is unsupported the primary effect is loss of overall volume and lengthening of the foot. You don’t mention having custom orthotics, or having laxity in your arch/metatarsals, but holding your foot static might be a big help.

[gregL]

Alright, I'm in a quandary and I need thoughts from the collective.

Difficult to believe you can't get a 26.5 RX LV or XT3 LV to work. My foot measures 27.7 on the Brannock with a very thin street sock, 117mm wide or more on most digital scanners, and I've skied for years in a 26.5 RS 130 and XT3 130 LV with tons of punching for lateral aspect width, first met bunions and medial midfoot width but no toe punches. My big toe is also ~5mm longer than the second, so front of foot profile should be similar. Hard to judge either your foot or previous bootwork without seeing you in person.

PS Lange is on the long side of interior last lengths in most models, other brands run shorter. A legitimate 100mm forefoot can usually fit in a last ~6-8mm narrower, but those will all be plug boots (I would and do overlook the difficulty putting them on since I only do it once a day but YMMV). Best bet may be to ensure your footbed has the right contour to lock you in place (especially if your weighted arch collapses more than 30% - for me that means also molding the forefoot for bottom of foot contours from the met ridge forward rather than leaving it flat) and look for a liner than can be "overfilled" in the ankle pocket but still not bother your heel to accommodate the low volume midfoot (i.e. Zipfit or Atomic Professional if you can find one - did you put the Zipfit Gara on heat stacks or just try it cold?).

[rigbone]

Whats up mags, not sure if I'm posting this in the best thread but I'm looking for recs for bootfitters. Looking for fitters in Revy and Banff/ Canmore.

I'm looking to get a lighter/better touring boot to replace my lupos as my main touring boot.

I've heard good things about Pulse Bootlabs but after chatting with them they really only have one option for light weight touring boots.

Anyone have experience with Monod Sports? They have a big selection, do they have good boot fitters there or more of like a Sportchek kinda thing?

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[SkiLyft]

If your arch collapses easy and/or is unsupported the primary effect is loss of overall volume and lengthening of the foot. You don’t mention having custom orthotics, or having laxity in your arch/metatarsals, but holding your foot static might be a big help.

This was the exact issue with my wife. Went and got custom orthotics. Turns out her arch was in the 90th percentile. Without support her foot would collapse and give her wicked toe squish. For years we sized up thinking that was the solution. Alas it wasn’t, going to a proper boot fitter who diagnosed the issue based on proper measurements. She’s now in a smaller shell and had so much better boot input without ever feeling squished. She was a hero for wearing terrible fitting boots and still loving skiing.


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[TAFKALVS]

Difficult to believe you can't get a 26.5 RX LV or XT3 LV to work. My foot measures 27.7 on the Brannock with a very thin street sock, 117mm wide or more on most digital scanners, and I've skied for years in a 26.5 RS 130 and XT3 130 LV with tons of punching for lateral aspect width, first met bunions and medial midfoot width but no toe punches. My big toe is also ~5mm longer than the second, so front of foot profile should be similar. Hard to judge either your foot or previous bootwork without seeing you in person.

PS Lange is on the long side of interior last lengths in most models, other brands run shorter. A legitimate 100mm forefoot can usually fit in a last ~6-8mm narrower, but those will all be plug boots (I would and do overlook the difficulty putting them on since I only do it once a day but YMMV). Best bet may be to ensure your footbed has the right contour to lock you in place (especially if your weighted arch collapses more than 30% - for me that means also molding the forefoot for bottom of foot contours from the met ridge forward rather than leaving it flat) and look for a liner than can be "overfilled" in the ankle pocket but still not bother your heel to accommodate the low volume midfoot (i.e. Zipfit or Atomic Professional if you can find one - did you put the Zipfit Gara on heat stacks or just try it cold?).

Greg, its Woody, you worked on the RX when I got them initially. They are pink panthers. I think you took the toe punch as far as possible IIRC. I'm over in Sandpoint now so it's tough to pay you a visit and I do have a guy who's quite good (and a mutual friend of yours, used to work at Crystal, initials JH.) But I'm also reticent to be needy and spend time with the bootfitter. That's 100% on me. You can have the best bootfitter in the world but he can't help you if you don't pay him a visit.

Plugs: Skied in Head B3 RD boots for quite a while, those were workable when I had a locker at the mountain and could take them off warm, but near impossible to take off cold in a parking lot. Those boots skied awesome but were just so cold and so stiff I got tired of them.

I have progressively gotten a bit wimpier and a bit less athletic over the last 5-6 years. So my tolerance for discomfort (which was always quite high) has decreased significantly. Things that I would ignore now are annoying enough to notice. My feet are also less conditioned where they will hold their shape naturally. They have gotten flatter and "longer" without arch support ie more splay when unsupported.

I actually really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I tend to want to chase new gear as clearly that is the solve, not minor tweaks.

I think its a combination of a few things:

1.)My footbeds are plain WORE OUT. They are 10 years old at this point and as mntlion pointed out, probably letting my arch collapse. They were some cheap thin things that a fitter at an SIA show put me in to make my B3 plugs work as the boot itself supported my foot pretty well.. I had a bad experience with a pair of unweighted molded footbeds made by a retail employee (won't call them a bootfitter) so I have shied away from anything else, as the unweighted footbed made it feel like I was standing on top of a baseball and was very painful.

2.) incorrect liner for the boot(s), the Powerwraps are probably too high volume for the RX130 with my shell fit especially in the heel area which is forcing me forwards, exasperated by the poor fitbed fit.

3.) The 27.5 XT3 are probably too big/definitely don't match with the small liners I have molded to the RX. I should probably look at the 26.5

4.) Still looking for a long, low volume true touring boot. Any suggestions would be helpful.

[gregL]

I have progressively gotten a bit wimpier and a bit less athletic over the last 5-6 years. So my tolerance for discomfort (which was always quite high) has decreased significantly. Things that I would ignore now are annoying enough to notice. My feet are also less conditioned where they will hold their shape naturally. They have gotten flatter and "longer" without arch support ie more splay when unsupported.

Long time, man! Hope all is well other than your feet. Yeah, same here, my feet are actually a little longer than 8-10 years ago and I'm much more pain-adverse. Not too mention dropping my turns-all-year quest and getting COVID plus weigh gain, etc. If I remember correctly, your toe punch was getting into the area where you're going to have toepiece compatibility problems, but I didn't grind them so maybe you can get a couple more millimeters. Good luck with the quest, it sucks to be in-between sizes and dreading to go up. FWIW, there are no low volume touring boots, the best is probably the Backland Carbon but it fits me with just a heat mold and you've seen my feet . . . give JH a shout for me when you see him, tell him I can tell he's thriving because I see him paying his bills on Venmo!

[waxman]

Whats up mags, not sure if I'm posting this in the best thread but I'm looking for recs for bootfitters. Looking for fitters in Revy and Banff/ Canmore.

I'm looking to get a lighter/better touring boot to replace my lupos as my main touring boot.

I've heard good things about Pulse Bootlabs but after chatting with them they really only have one option for light weight touring boots.

Anyone have experience with Monod Sports? They have a big selection, do they have good boot fitters there or more of like a Sportchek kinda thing?

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Monods should have the boots you want/need and then pay mntlion on here to do the work? He's in Banff. Or on your way between Revy and Banff try Selkirk Sports at Kicking Horse? Pretty sure one of the contributors to this thread helps out there.

[GoldenBC]

Monods should have the boots you want/need and then pay mntlion on here to do the work? He's in Banff. Or on your way between Revy and Banff try Selkirk Sports at Kicking Horse? Pretty sure one of the contributors to this thread helps out there.

That’s me at Selkirk. Glad to help out anyone here. We don’t have a big selection of lightweight touring boots at the shop but feel free to bring in whatever you find. Right at the base of the gondy so quick turn around.

[rigbone]

Monods should have the boots you want/need and then pay mntlion on here to do the work? He's in Banff. Or on your way between Revy and Banff try Selkirk Sports at Kicking Horse? Pretty sure one of the contributors to this thread helps out there.

I did chat with Selkirk and doesn't sound like they carry what I'm looking for. I had a good convo with Pulse in Banff so I might go get a fit with them and the guy there said he could recommend a boot at another shop if they don't have what I'm looking for.

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[mntlion]

I did chat with Selkirk and doesn't sound like they carry what I'm looking for. I had a good convo with Pulse in Banff so I might go get a fit with them and the guy there said he could recommend a boot at another shop if they don't have what I'm looking for.

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I'm wtih Pulse in banff.

FYI: better to have a boot that fits and flexes right then a boot that might be a few grams lighter but skis/fits poorly. Put a higher priority on Fit/flex then grams (unless you are rando racing, then 100% go for it)

If you can find both thats great, but as you pull weight out of a boot, it looses fit features, liners break down quicker, skis worse, and less ability to move the plastic. Its all a balance. Sure lighter is nicer for the way up, but often at a price for the way down...

[Shorty_J]

Please do correct me if I'm wrong... but I thought the common advice with power wraps was your shell size or one higher?

Maybe a 26 power wrap in a 27 boot could be part of the problem?

I got myself into an LV boot this year that I love (in a 25.5)... then found a cheap pair of 25 power wraps. I can get in my boots fine but I couldn't get my foot in that liner without feeling crushed, and that is not even in a shell.

Maybe a 27 power wrap with a fresh moulding? Or even a 28?

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[mntlion]

usually get what size liner your boot is, assuming the shell fits well. If it doesn't fit well, get one that does and dont waste time/money on liners that wont solve the issue

If its a tighter fit, get a thinner liner, but in the same size

if its a stiffer boot, get a higher density liner. but in the same size

The staff at intuition is amazing for answering questions.

If you need a thin, stiff new intuition liner, in size 25 message me. I have an extra.