Maggot snowmobile thread

[eldereldo]

Pretty low for a 4 yr old sled. I put 2500k on an XM last season alone. Like I said, Kidwoo can probably attest to it going a lot farther than that. Everyone around here is jumping on the XM bandwagon, so a glut of 3-5 yr old sleds on the mkt for cheap... esp anything 146ish. Nobody wants that anymore!

Not compared to sleds around here(Calgary). Seem to be lots where people have put on 4-500k a year. Probably because after the first couple of years, they get tired of the haul to ride anywhere worth while, hang on to the sled for a couple more years, then finally decide to get rid of it.

[powder11]

Not compared to sleds around here(Calgary). Seem to be lots where people have put on 4-500k a year. Probably because after the first couple of years, they get tired of the haul to ride anywhere worth while, hang on to the sled for a couple more years, then finally decide to get rid of it.

I hear ya. Endless sled adventures right out my back door makes it an attractive sport in its own right. I think sledding in BC is an entirely different exp than most other places. Places where you break trail all day long and never see or hear another sled. Although a day up on the icecap is going to cost you 75k give or take, so a few of those trips start to add up. I know a dude with a 13 xm 800 etec with 14,500 with virtually no maintenance costs other than belts, clutch clean/adjust and minor wear tear.

[Mannix]

As far as Canadian - someone asked if both riders use the mountain strap/center bar. For us, no. Typically, the driver, person on the right side of the sled, uses both handgrips, Passenger holds end of bar with left hand, shoulder strap of backpack on the driver. That's what works for us, mostly because we're not really on the same page wrt steering - it is pretty much impossible to turn the bars with one hand on grip, one on mountain strap. If BOTH riders were on the same page/of the same mindset as far as steering, that could work. I like having control of the brake, though.

You need a fairly narrow left hand and/or long grip area to make that work. I've been planning on mounting a bar end off a mountain bike on the left side just for the passenger. For us, it works - the driver steers, brakes, throttle, passenger is just ballast.

With some of my cohorts, we ride seamlessly. I'm normally driving - scarily enough, I'm the least jongtastic in my group on a sled. Newer passengers, if I need them to lean more uphill, I tell them "your side," if that's not enough, I left elbow them til they get the point.

If you're sidehilling Canadian, it often helps a LOT for the downhill side person to put their rear knee on the seat. GENERALLY SPEAKING, with my sled-deficient friends, I tell them NEVER to put their knee on the seat - sleds only know WHERE your weight is interacting with the sled, and respond to that. MOST of the time, knee on seat = stuck or tipped over. Unless Canadianing + sidehill. Even with me on the downhill side (I'm big), we can sidehill pretty effectively if I put my knee on the seat.

Upper bodies don't need to be close together. Sometimes, I get on with a newer person, they crowd me in a big way. No, stand up. Upper bodies don't have to be all cozy - again, all about the feet.

Probably the biggest thing I've learned in riding sleds is simple - they like to be horizontal OR slightly rolled uphill/into the turn. Once they go past horizontal, they're hard to get back. Keep it "on edge" a little, they're happy. Getting new people to keep that in mind when Canadianing is hard - they'll often let the sled be truly flat, not account for the depression in the snow BEFORE they get to it, all of a sudden it is a scramble to get on the high side. If the sled had been a few degrees tilted in the correct direction *before* the depression in the snow/low spot/whatever, it'd likely have sailed right over it. Anticipating the next thing plays a huge role.

[Shadam]

here in canada its called ..

homo-bieling ... buddy sitting behind you sitting down ...

bitch ... put your little girlfriend in front and you stand up ...

stand up ... obvious.

stand up is the only way to go! buddy has to help steer or its too hard on the throtle hand.

a buddy has a 600 rev and we were tanduming on it and it did fine. wouldn't want to break trail tandum though

[Mannix]

a buddy has a 600 rev and we were tanduming on it and it did fine. wouldn't want to break trail tandum though

Agreed.

[chiller]

As far as Canadian - someone asked if both riders use the mountain strap/center bar. For us, no. Typically, the driver, person on the right side of the sled, uses both handgrips, Passenger holds end of bar with left hand, shoulder strap of backpack on the driver. That's what works for us, mostly because we're not really on the same page wrt steering - it is pretty much impossible to turn the bars with one hand on grip, one on mountain strap. If BOTH riders were on the same page/of the same mindset as far as steering, that could work. I like having control of the brake, though.

You need a fairly narrow left hand and/or long grip area to make that work. I've been planning on mounting a bar end off a mountain bike on the left side just for the passenger. For us, it works - the driver steers, brakes, throttle, passenger is just ballast.

With some of my cohorts, we ride seamlessly. I'm normally driving - scarily enough, I'm the least jongtastic in my group on a sled. Newer passengers, if I need them to lean more uphill, I tell them "your side," if that's not enough, I left elbow them til they get the point.

If you're sidehilling Canadian, it often helps a LOT for the downhill side person to put their rear knee on the seat. GENERALLY SPEAKING, with my sled-deficient friends, I tell them NEVER to put their knee on the seat - sleds only know WHERE your weight is interacting with the sled, and respond to that. MOST of the time, knee on seat = stuck or tipped over. Unless Canadianing + sidehill. Even with me on the downhill side (I'm big), we can sidehill pretty effectively if I put my knee on the seat.

Upper bodies don't need to be close together. Sometimes, I get on with a newer person, they crowd me in a big way. No, stand up. Upper bodies don't have to be all cozy - again, all about the feet.

Probably the biggest thing I've learned in riding sleds is simple - they like to be horizontal OR slightly rolled uphill/into the turn. Once they go past horizontal, they're hard to get back. Keep it "on edge" a little, they're happy. Getting new people to keep that in mind when Canadianing is hard - they'll often let the sled be truly flat, not account for the depression in the snow BEFORE they get to it, all of a sudden it is a scramble to get on the high side. If the sled had been a few degrees tilted in the correct direction *before* the depression in the snow/low spot/whatever, it'd likely have sailed right over it. Anticipating the next thing plays a huge role.

Thanks for this!!

[LID_FTB]

Don't screw around with any of the doubling styles except Canadian, or what we just call tandeming. Squirrel (we call it little timmy) is good if you have a small chick/girlfriend with you but that's about it. Suck it up and learn how to tandem and you'll be better off in the long run, kind of like learning how to stand up while dirt biking.

We usually run driver on throttle and mountain bar and passenger on brake plus mountain bar or just go one hand if an easy climb. Reaching all the way over as driver is a weird stretch and tires you out.

If your passenger is new, just tell them to keep their right shoulder against your left and lean where you lean. After a few wheelies into the woods you'll be dialed and get way more runs in with way more energy in your legs. Try and stand as natural as possible instead of crouching and pulling when not necessary to save a lot of energy and save fighting for direction. You don't want to kill that back leg if you are snowboarding powder all day.

If your handlebars make you crouch then you are wasting your legs on the way up. Get a taller riser so you can stand comfortably.

New sleds you can tandem up fresh lines you would have to break trail solo with old style sleds. Way more runs with the new ones and nicer running boards to stand on


Can't wait to get back on the go!

[sal the salmon]

i think this fits in the back of my yota pretty nice? im thinking about it... price is right.

http://spokane.craigslist.org/snw/4662336906.html

[Shadam]

are you shitting us ???

see those lugs on that track? the add says great for the kis or running around the property. it aint gunna climb a sled ramp, and deff aint going anywhere in the mtns unless a perfectly groomed trail ...

$600 ...

[Mannix]

+1. That Yamaha & trail sleds like it are bordering on useless on anything but a groomed trail.

A couple of winters ago, I came across some unguided rental tourons on newer Skidoo MXZ trail sleds. Modern sleds - 2010 or 2011, 600 ACE (four stroke) motor. Similar track to that - 121" or whatever, short lug.

Guy had driven it off the side of the groomer, it was on a *slight* hill, uphill ski pretty much touching the groomer. Lifted track, got it pointed more across the hill - SLIGHT - too flat to be fun to ski - not much of a hill at ALL - figured I could just ride it out.

Nope. Not even close. Really? I had NO IDEA they were THAT useless. It was above treeline, moderately firm windblown surface, stupid thing was just stuck.

Plus, sleds older than ~99 are, IMHO, a really false economy. Not only are parts harder to find, they're not really any cheaper than current-gen parts - and pretty much everything for a snowmobile costs $300. IE, spend $600 on that thing, if a couple of things break, you'll be looking at $1k pretty quickly. It'd not take long to have spent $1500ish on the sled, and you'd still have a REALLY old-tech, largely useless sled with little value. Sleds are weird - they're not like cars. There are plenty of potentially reliable cars made in the 80s - one of my daily driver beaters is an 87, it is great - a 1988 model year sled is roughly equivalent to a 1975 model year car. Sleds age FAST.

[chiller]

Thanks guys for all the tandem tips! Can't get enough. Another tandem question, when going around switchbacks or sharp turns does it really help for the downhill rider to try and lean over the front of the sled?

[fortort]

Pics

Got my first sled last week:
2001 Ski-doo Summit Highmark X 800, 151' (3100mi chassis, ~1500mi engine)

Runs great and was very well maintained. Paid $1K+skis+computer. So pumped for this season. Still gotta build a ski rack.

[Mannix]

Pics

Got my first sled last week:
2001 Ski-doo Summit Highmark X 800, 151' (3100mi chassis, ~1500mi engine)

Runs great and was very well maintained. Paid $1K+skis+computer. So pumped for this season. Still gotta build a ski rack.

Computer?

If that motor has 1500mi on it without a new set of pistons, put them on your short list - when I started, those sleds were still pretty popular, and there was a CONSTANT rotation of blown-up motors on my mechanic's bench.

Beyond that, my 700 was very similar - it served us well. Where are you?

[fortort]

If that motor has 1500mi on it without a new set of pistons, put them on your short list - when I started, those sleds were still pretty popular, and there was a CONSTANT rotation of blown-up motors on my mechanic's bench.

Beyond that, my 700 was very similar - it served us well. Where are you?

Western Montana. Out of curiosity what kind of cost am I looking at for that? My pre-season list currently includes: New hyfax, change chain case oil/inspect, replace broken killswitch, coolant change (I can do all of these on my own but I'm not sure I want to do a piston swap on my own).

Computer?

I couldn't reach his asking price so with a little convincing I got him to take $1K, a gaming computer, and my Kung Fujas+bindings+boots for the sled.

[Mannix]

Western Montana. Out of curiosity what kind of cost am I looking at for that? My pre-season list currently includes: New hyfax, change chain case oil/inspect, replace broken killswitch, coolant change (I can do all of these on my own but I'm not sure I want to do a piston swap on my own).



I couldn't reach his asking price so with a little convincing I got him to take $1K, a gaming computer, and my Kung Fujas+bindings+boots for the sled.

Ahhh, gotit. Top end is about $500 in parts. It is actually really pretty easy on that - drain coolant, remove pipe/can/carbs, remove cylinders, replace pistons, reassemble. You probably want someone around who has done it, but it really is not a terribly difficult job, especially on the ZX - nothing above the motor.

The big allen headed bolt in the chain tensioner is likely loose. They all seem to be; when you take the chaincase off, take that bolt out, clean it, loctite, etc. Simple.

Hyfax - are they actually worn out? There's a faint casting seam/mark on the slide - it is a good wear indicator. I've NEVER worn a set out; the set on my ZX did finally get thin enough to warrant replacing at about 5500mi, but that was after I sold it. They're not all that hard to change, but not a whole lot of fun, either. Looks like the PO took your front idler wheels off, though, that shortens the lifespan. Dunno.

When you do the coolant change, fill the bottle, run the sled while tipped WAY up on one ski to get the bottle to be the highest point/get air out.

Make sure the carb warmers are ON to get any air out of the carbs (little red knob), then TURN IT BACK OFF - the carb heaters are needed in a very specific window of temp and humidity, near freezing, high humidity, I've never needed them in CO - and they make the sled run like crap if you forget to turn them off . It'll not idle and be an absolute pain in the ass to start once warm.

Take the skis off, knock the steel sleeve out of the upright (that the ski pivots on - bolt goes through it), clean/sand/grease. Do that annually. 10 min per ski IF the sleeve comes out.

I like Mobil1 or Valvoline synthetic grease. i once used Lucas grease, had a pic of a snowmobile on it, must be good, right? Nope - grease froze around the spindle in the upright - the long tube that goes through the front of the trailing arm - made it damned near impossible to turn.

It'll be a fun sled!

[fortort]

Ahhh, gotit. Top end is about $500 in parts. It is actually really pretty easy on that - drain coolant, remove pipe/can/carbs, remove cylinders, replace pistons, reassemble. You probably want someone around who has done it, but it really is not a terribly difficult job, especially on the ZX - nothing above the motor.

The big allen headed bolt in the chain tensioner is likely loose. They all seem to be; when you take the chaincase off, take that bolt out, clean it, loctite, etc. Simple.

Hyfax - are they actually worn out? There's a faint casting seam/mark on the slide - it is a good wear indicator. I've NEVER worn a set out; the set on my ZX did finally get thin enough to warrant replacing at about 5500mi, but that was after I sold it. They're not all that hard to change, but not a whole lot of fun, either. Looks like the PO took your front idler wheels off, though, that shortens the lifespan. Dunno.

When you do the coolant change, fill the bottle, run the sled while tipped WAY up on one ski to get the bottle to be the highest point/get air out.

Make sure the carb warmers are ON to get any air out of the carbs (little red knob), then TURN IT BACK OFF - the carb heaters are needed in a very specific window of temp and humidity, near freezing, high humidity, I've never needed them in CO - and they make the sled run like crap if you forget to turn them off . It'll not idle and be an absolute pain in the ass to start once warm.

Take the skis off, knock the steel sleeve out of the upright (that the ski pivots on - bolt goes through it), clean/sand/grease. Do that annually. 10 min per ski IF the sleeve comes out.

I like Mobil1 or Valvoline synthetic grease. i once used Lucas grease, had a pic of a snowmobile on it, must be good, right? Nope - grease froze around the spindle in the upright - the long tube that goes through the front of the trailing arm - made it damned near impossible to turn.

It'll be a fun sled!

Damn, awesome response, thanks. The hyfax isn't really that worn but they seem really cheap to replace so I might do it sometime anyway. As a poor grad student I think a top end replacement may not be in the books this season, might have to wait a year. I'm using it primarily as an access sled for skiing/splitting so I won't be stressing it too much and can't see myself putting more than a couple hundred miles on it this year. I hope the engine lasts another season. On the bright side it starts up first pull (even cold) and was only used by the POs wife so no sledneck abusing it.

[Mannix]

I've never liked taking the skid out. Only 6 bolts, four to hold the ski in + disconnecting rear springs, but ehhh, I'm not doing it until it is necessary, personally. There are modified slide hammer tools that let you pull the sliders out through a track window, but I've heard mixed reviews on those.

IF you decide to remove/replace them, just take the skid out - an impact wrench is helpful, as the bolts that go through the front scissor arm thread into an aluminum tube which likes to spin, meaning you can easily get one side or the other loose.

Then, once the skid is out, cut the slider off, don't eff with trying to slide it off the rail. Grind straight through it, box cutter, whatever, just cut them off.

The motor will likely be fine for a season. Sucks if it is NOT fine, though, when a piston breaks, it sends junk into the bottom end, normally damages a cylinder. Doing it now is $500 or so, if it fails, $1000+. Plenty of people have replaced cylinders/pistons without going through the bottom end - I'd not be one of them. It does not take a very big chunk of aluminum to destroy a bearing down there.

[danadog]

So what 2 stroke Oil is everyone running? I went to the Cat shop and it was $47 a gallon for the Cat branded synthetic stuff.

[fortort]

Check out Cheetah Factory Racing (CFR). They make awesome ski racks.... a sketchy rack will ruin your skis and your day in a hurry. a good rack goes a long way. and when your motor pops, you can bolt your CFR rack on to your next sled

$150 seems a little steep. I had a design in mind that would run me about $20 in parts from Ace, I think I'll at least give it a try before I spend money on a rack. I'm pretty confident I can make a solid rack without any issues. If it doesn't work out I'll take a look at getting a CFR.

[simple]

So what 2 stroke Oil is everyone running? I went to the Cat shop and it was $47 a gallon for the Cat branded synthetic stuff.

Yep. Oil isn't cheap. Thanks for the reminder i need to order a case for the season

[pano-dude]

So what 2 stroke Oil is everyone running? I went to the Cat shop and it was $47 a gallon for the Cat branded synthetic stuff.

I run shell advance semi synthetic. Goes on sale for around $35 for 4 liter jug.
Cat, doo brands are no better and cost way more.

[sal the salmon]

i was joking about the sled yes

[irratator]

IMO: Buy oil by the case. I 've always used Torco Syn

[danadog]

IMO: Buy oil by the case. I 've always used Torco Syn

Will do.

[Shadam]

ok I havent seen the sled but ...

only change hyfax when they have worn thru. chances are they see next season, I bought my big havey sled with 2700 miles. it now has 11,000 miles and have only changed them once. we tap them from the front til we can get pliers on it from back and pull it thru the track window. if the hole isnt big enough, cut it bigger. shop told us to do it and its fine.
i have never changed the coolant in it. I dont spend money unless its broken.
so many guys on snow&mud.com change everything every year, chain etc etc. fark that. bushes in the skis are about it for me.
talking chain, I've never changed it. expect little flakes of metal on the dipstick magnet. thats normal. I check it daily. if u see 1 chunk of steel, don't use the sled til u change that chain coz it will break soon. well that depends how u ride.
snowforever's rx1 ran for days with out any oil in chain case. just sayn coz some people get all pissy about shit like this and then there is us. she'll be right mate!"

I'm sure people are going to flame me for this, but show me a sled as old as my rt1000 and snowforever's rx1 still running happily ...