Maggot snowmobile thread

[powder11]

It started snowing in Whistler. It was sofa king deep. Buddy getting right in it!

[simple]

Hell yeah!

[North]

Rode feet upon feet of heavy pow at Rabbit Ears on Saturday. Also took a few laps on some of my riding partners' turbo M8s

... it's like a whole new sport with one of those things.

[Micol]

I have a good ski access sled for sale. I had shoulder surgery and don't anticipate using it this winter. 2002 RMK 800 with a 144" track. Aftermarket Van Amberg(?) heat exchanger for pulling people up hardpack trails. Nice ski and gear rack. Old style long seat which you can two up on for long road access. $1900 Aspen areaAttachment 148294

how much for that trailer? is it a single? tilt?

[tobytortorelli]

Some stoke from Revelstoke!

[jamesp]

thinking of getting a sled later in the year (ie in time for next winter), so am starting to keep an eye on the used market. Will mainly be used for touring access, which I imagine will mean doubling & towing ppl lots. Guess I'd end up just sledding some days, have to learn how to ride the thing somehow . It would be nice to keep it around $3-$4k, but I've heard some people say to spend $5k min to get something more reliable.

I've tried to come up with a quick & dirty summary of models etc to look out for. Obviously I realise that there are good & bad stories for every brand/model, but its nice to have a starting point. Have I missed anything? Anything to add?

Skidoo 670 or 700 (late 90's) - older/cheaper.
Skidoo 800, 2006 & prior. aka Rev aka Summit. Etech 800's are good but newer/more $$.
Arctic Cat M6-M7-M8 - no reverse on M7's?
Polaris Dragon - good?
Polaris rmk 600 / 700 - good older sled? 700 engine esp good.
RMK 900 - bad (esp 2005), 2006 900 is ok?
Yamaha's - heavy but more reliable than most others.

Edit: for Canuk mags, any experience good or bad with buying used from the US? I'm somewhat familiar with the process for importing motorbikes, are sleds similar?

[adrenalated]

thinking of getting a sled later in the year (ie in time for next winter), so am starting to keep an eye on the used market. Will mainly be used for touring access, which I imagine will mean doubling & towing ppl lots. Guess I'd end up just sledding some days, have to learn how to ride the thing somehow . It would be nice to keep it around $3-$4k, but I've heard some people say to spend $5k min to get something more reliable.

I've tried to come up with a quick & dirty summary of models etc to look out for. Obviously I realise that there are good & bad stories for every brand/model, but its nice to have a starting point. Have I missed anything? Anything to add?

Skidoo 670 or 700 (late 90's) - older/cheaper.
Skidoo 800, 2006 & prior. aka Rev aka Summit. Etech 800's are good but newer/more $$.
Arctic Cat M6-M7-M8 - no reverse on M7's?
Polaris Dragon - good?
Polaris rmk 600 / 700 - good older sled? 700 engine esp good.
RMK 900 - bad (esp 2005), 2006 900 is ok?
Yamaha's - heavy but more reliable than most others.

Edit: for Canuk mags, any experience good or bad with buying used from the US? I'm somewhat familiar with the process for importing motorbikes, are sleds similar?

FWIW I am a total sled JONG and bought my first sled this year for basically the same purpose as you describe.

It was recommended to me by many people to go with an M7. So far happy with the purchase. I paid $3200 for the sled, then the water pump failed and I put another $750 in it to fix that and some other misc stuff (would have been a lot cheaper if I had time to do it myself). So $4k total. Since then, had it out about 7-8 days with no trouble (after putting new fuel in it).

No reverse on the M7 but that has not been an issue for me. I grab it and yank on it, maybe with help from another person, and it comes right off the trailer. To turn around on roads, I just find a wide spot and make a big turn. Worst case, I make most of the turn, then hop off and yank it the rest of the way around. Reverse would be nice I guess, but doesn't seem necessary to me.

Often (towing or multiple people on roads) I wish I had bought a utility sled. Every time I get it stuck (AKA every time I drive in powder) I'm glad I have a lightweight mountain sled.

[jamesp]

yeah I already disregarded utility sleds due to the weight, same for 1000cc+ machines. I've been sled skiing a couple times with buddies (aka have dug stuck sleds out) & get the light weight thing.

[Mannix]

yeah I already disregarded utility sleds due to the weight, same for 1000cc+ machines. I've been sled skiing a couple times with buddies (aka have dug stuck sleds out) & get the light weight thing.

<blunt>

you're wrong.

</blunt>

Utility sleds are _the_ answer for moving skiers around, full stop, particularly the new chassis Skidoos. They're unreal.

Also - the difference in weight between a 600, 700 and 800 motor is trivial, if any.

MOST (there are likely some exceptions) modern (say, less than a decade old) 6/7/800 cc twin sled motors are the SAME architecture, just with increasingly larger pistons (and possibly a different crank throw).

IE, as the engine gets "bigger," the only thing actually getting bigger is the piston and corresponding hole in the cylinder. That's it.

A 600cc twin etec and an 800cc etc weigh virtually the same; the 800 is four pounds heavier. FOUR POUNDS, and most of that is in ancillary stuff, not larger pistons (a piston in an 800 weighs a couple of pounds....and they're, uhrmmm, 3mm larger in diameter? Maybe? Forget, but not an enormous difference).

1000cc engines (in Doo land, all I really know) ARE a bit heavier. About 20#. The crankcase is larger. The WHOLE ENGINE is larger.

600/800? Same engine, different pistons. The notion of "bigger displacement sleds are heavier" is utter crap.

Now, in the case of the SkiDoo RT1000, YES, THAT sled is heavier - quite a bit. Not because it is a 1000cc engine - that adds 20# or so - but the WHOLE SLED is bigger, everything is bigger.....

.....and RT1000s are _awesome_ access machines.

They're not as good for straight up slednecking as a RevXP 800, if the snow is at ALL firm, you will feel the weight, they're pigs (had one for a couple of seasons). Deep? Eh, they're a ton of fun, and they have so much freaking full-retard torque at part throttle, they're _sick_ access sleds.

But better than a mountain sled is a utility. I have a utility (XU chassis SWT with a taller-paddle track) and a mountain sled - 163" XM Summit. There are certainly things that the SWT can't do which the XM does with ease, but that stuff is generally outside the scope of _skiing_.

For skiing, a utility with a taller paddle track (key piece, the 1.25" tracks hinder climbing in deep) is a FAR better choice than a mountain sled.

They're harder to find, more expensive, and the transmissions can be problematic - there's a lot going against them - but "weight" is absolutely not a reason to avoid one FOR SKIING.

Hell, on my sled-only days, I can't decide which to ride - the XU is freaking fun. It sidehills just fine.

ehh, been meaning to rant about the weight thing for a while. Larger displacement does not necessarily equal heavier. Larger displacement FEELS heavier - gyroscopic effects and things - but by the time THAT weight comes into play, you're stuck, and the reality of it is, the sled is not heavier because it has a bigger motor.

.02c, don't write off utility sleds - if you're looking for an access machine, utilities are the way. Half and half? Get a mountain sled, but FOR SKIING, utilities rule.



Iain

[jamesp]

I knew that 600 & 800 engines were virtually the same, but thought that 1000 were usually a different block?
Maybe academic as I won't be buying a new sled, but the skidoo website says Skandic 600 is 303kg & Summit 600 is 202kg. That's a big weight difference IMO.

I would consider a utility sled it I see one, but there seems to be way more mtn sleds for sale near me.

[kidwoo]

Here we go again

But better than a mountain sled is a utility. I have a utility (XU chassis SWT with a taller-paddle track) and a mountain sled - 163" XM Summit. There are certainly things that the SWT can't do which the XM does with ease, but that stuff is generally outside the scope of _skiing_. WHERE I SKI

Not all drainages with good skiing have wide flat approaches, much less roads.

And not all tandem routes open up by torque alone. A lot can be sure. But I've ridden a utility sled a bit and there are places that you're not getting them that we use to set tandem routes.

They are fuggin sick though. I wouldn't kick one out of bed or anything but it wouldn't be my only sled.


Absolutely true on the weight difference between two stroke motors. It cracks me up when people say 'I'll get the 600 cuz it's lighter'

[North]

I've tried to come up with a quick & dirty summary of models etc to look out for.

Like adrenalated, I've got an M7 that I bought in 2010 for sled skiing, so that's the only make I've got any real experience with. I paid $3800 for a low miles sled and it's been running w/o issues from day one. Add oil, add gas, go. I can tow 2 no problem and have fun on non-ski days.

Reverse is super helpful for loading/unloading (my next sled will have it for sure) but not a key feature. Making sure you use all your fun points during the day and bringing it home with the gas tank empty makes sled ballet less of a struggle

The newer chassis have been out for 3+ seasons now so 3-4k should get you a really nice M7, or at the high end of your price range ($4.5K?) an M8 (reverse!)

if you're looking for an access machine, utilities are the way. Half and half? Get a mountain sled, but FOR SKIING, utilities rule.

Lots of good info in there but I think this point is key. If you like skiing pow, catching the sledding bug is almost inevitable. Lots of my sledding friends started out as 50/50 skier/snowmobilers but now do more of the latter. A mountain sled will allow you to enjoy both sports in their full capacity.

[North]

PS - may as well post my sledneck singles classified here:

Wanted: sled skiing partner(s) in CO.

Most of my sled ski friends have moved away to become doctors & lawyers (seriously), and the remaining group members are now born-again slednecks (TURBOS, diesel trucks, wooooo!!!!).

Me:
-25 years old
-Front range weekend warrior (w/flex time and generous vacation policy)
-Avy savvy
-Own and can ride M7 better than most grandmothers
-Own a bitchin' lightweight aluminum two place trailer w/ramps that will save your back when loading/unloading
-Happy to use sleds to access zones for skin laps, or towing braap laps
-Accomplished sled excavator

But seriously, it's really embarrassing when I show up at the trailhead with my two-place carrying one lonely sled . I'd really like to get back to Kebler and Buff Pass this year and explore some other zones as well. If any mags wanna get after it, holler.

[Dhelihiker]

You should move to tahoe, no partners needed.

F#÷¥king bs season

[Mannix]

Here we go again




Not all drainages with good skiing have wide flat approaches, much less roads.

And not all tandem routes open up by torque alone. A lot can be sure. But I've ridden a utility sled a bit and there are places that you're not getting them that we use to set tandem routes.

They are fuggin sick though. I wouldn't kick one out of bed or anything but it wouldn't be my only sled.


Absolutely true on the weight difference between two stroke motors. It cracks me up when people say 'I'll get the 600 cuz it's lighter'

haha, yup, never ending debate.

I've consumed ALL the koolaid, my XU with the 1.75" track will go anywhere I'm willing to tandem. I don't think any old utility can do it; I'm pretty much convinced that you need a wide, tall-lugged track AND a motor - 600 liquid at least. The 550fanmotor sleds (or ACE motors) just don't have the power/snap to get it up on top of the snow. A lot of utilities have the lame drag-shit motors, and yeah, they're good for dragging stuff and low-speed trail breaking, but point it at a hill and pin it....wait....wait...almost there....

Nope. Needs a motor, too.

I still have both. If I were to do it again, I might have bought a second SWT, but with both, ehhh, I can has it all. I've not run into anything the SWT won't do yet - but I've not really had the opportunity to try to put a road in on something I was not sure it could do.

blah blah blah.

I love me my utility. A mountain sled can do it all; a utility sled does the skiing piece better...for the most part. I can envision trying to make roads up drainages which would be challenging on the schoolbus.

Once the road is in, though, all aboard!

I've not been on a sled in two weeks (or skied), which sucksballs, bent the feces out of my steering post with my thigh on the SWT whilst effing around near Steamboat. Thought I crossed the creek 60' back there. Turns out I'd not. fark. Giant hematoma, could not walk for a few days, super.

[JONG SLAUGHTER]

You should move to tahoe, no partners needed.

F#÷¥king bs season

SWEET BLOG, CUPCAKE.

[Jethro]

Ouch. That was a pretty quick deceleration. How long did it take to get the machine out?

I had a buddy hit an arroyo in the desert by Grand junction like that on a dirtbike. It messed him up for the rest of the season

[kidwoo]

I can envision trying to make roads up drainages which would be challenging on the schoolbus.

That's a lot of what I'm talking about. We've got a couple of drainages we go up and some climbs and descents into and out of drainages that once you're there, you're all good on anything. But there's some gnarly white knuckle shit to get there......even on a nimble high track speed mountain sled. Some of this stuff still sketches me out on an M8.

It's not the kind of thing most first year sledders would be trying anyway so it's kind of a moot point I guess. But first year sledders sometimes turn into 2nd year sledders.

Some of the cabin hut trips I want to do though.....fuck yeah I'd love to ALSO have a newer scandic. But I still hold that a first year sledder should learn how to ride on a light, capable mtn sled. Then they can know how to adjust to make a bigger sled do things.

That creek looks embarassing. Heal up. At least you guys have snow.

james: buy anything that says arctic cat m8 or m7, skidoo REV H.O. (not anything ptech), or polaris 700 anything except for '05 OR '06, polaris didn't make snowmobiles that year. There are some things you'll find for cheap that kinda look like snowmobiles but they aren't. That 2007 and later 700 polaris made is still the best motor they ever produced. My vote is for one of those or the arctic cat. All should be able to found in your price range.

[Mannix]

Ouch. That was a pretty quick deceleration. How long did it take to get the machine out?

I had a buddy hit an arroyo in the desert by Grand junction like that on a dirtbike. It messed him up for the rest of the season

Thanks to a group of guys from Iowa, about 20 minutes. 10 minutes of digging, two bungees and a big strap, they yanked it out in 3 pulls. SUPER thankful they showed, it'd have been a long, long dig on my own (was out with my kid, she's rad, but does not possess the strength of 6 Iowans). Would have been measured in hours without them, they just lifted the front straight up, whacked throttle, bam, it was on a 45d angle up the ramp.

Was pretty worried about the rest of my season up until yesterday - was getting huge pain in my lower leg, seemed like compartment syndrome, but that's sorted itself out. Whew. Took a full two weeks to get there, and I still have a giant lump of crap on my quad. No es bueno.

[Jethro]

or polaris 700 anything except for '05 OR '06, polaris didn't make snowmobiles that year.

Was this a dis on the sleds Polaris made those years? a quick google search yielded polaris sleds from those years

[kidwoo]

Was this a dis on the sleds Polaris made those years? a quick google search yielded polaris sleds from those years

I owned one.

It wasn't a snowmobile. It was kind of shaped like one and had what one could (if generous) call a 'motor'. But it wasn't a sled.


Compare the prices on those things used, to sleds that are older on older style chassis. There's a reason for what you'll find.

[Mannix]

But I still hold that a first year sledder should learn how to ride on a light, capable mtn sled. Then they can know how to adjust to make a bigger sled do things.

There's probably a good chunk of truth to that. Learning on this thing would have been a trick; I'm by no means a "good" rider, but I can get around OK - I'm still often impressed at what the swt WILL do, but I'm only trying half of that stuff because I know my other sleds can do it, so why not this one? 9 times out of 10, it just does it. That thing is a riot. It is harder to move around on set up snow, but if it is set up, you can go straight up. Dunno.

My original sled - 03 Summit 700, trailing arm sled with a 156" track - is still around. We've had both of them out, and the XU is EASILY as capable as that thing, despite the weight. Just as easy (or not-easy, compared to a new sled) to ride, it'll outclimb the ZX 700, shrug, it is rad. I like it.

The XM, otoh, runs circles around the XU.

good problem to have.


Iain

[Jethro]

Thanks to a group of guys from Iowa, about 20 minutes. 10 minutes of digging, two bungees and a big strap, they yanked it out in 3 pulls. SUPER thankful they showed, it'd have been a long, long dig on my own (was out with my kid, she's rad, but does not possess the strength of 6 Iowans). Would have been measured in hours without them, they just lifted the front straight up, whacked throttle, bam, it was on a 45d angle up the ramp.

Was pretty worried about the rest of my season up until yesterday - was getting huge pain in my lower leg, seemed like compartment syndrome, but that's sorted itself out. Whew. Took a full two weeks to get there, and I still have a giant lump of crap on my quad. No es bueno.

Good to hear that you got that out easily. I had a compartment syndrome in my lower leg from a bad break in 1989 and almost lost my leg to loss of blood flow. Massage the heck out of that leg and flush out the congealed blood that is probably in there. Heal up. I am wasting a lot of time here this winter since I am taking it easy following a lot of shoulder work after a dirt bike wreck in September.

[Jethro]

I owned one.

It wasn't a snowmobile. It was kind of shaped like one and had what one could (if generous) call a 'motor'. But it wasn't a sled.


Compare the prices on those things used, to sleds that are older on older style chassis. There's a reason for what you'll find.

Good to know. I am selling my 02 800 RMK since I am not going to be using it this season, but next year I will be in the market for another used sled, but newer than my current on. I will read up on the 05-06 sleds a little bit more. I'd hate to buy a shitty sled.

[Mannix]

Good to hear that you got that out easily. I had a compartment syndrome in my lower leg from a bad break in 1989 and almost lost my leg to loss of blood flow. Massage the heck out of that leg and flush out the congealed blood that is probably in there. Heal up. I am wasting a lot of time here this winter since I am taking it easy following a lot of shoulder work after a dirt bike wreck in September.

Yeah, I had a vague idea of what compartment syndrome was all about until this little fiasco. Scary. Thanks for the advice; massaging the lump is freaking disgusting, but yeah.

Hope the shoulder gets better. I got rid of my dirtbikes a few years ago, back to mountain bikes for me - had a 4th gear off in the woods, got really lucky, decided they were going to kill me. I do stupid things with motors.

New sled next year, though, that'll be good!


Iain