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Thread: Friday Debate Topic:

  1. #1
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    Friday Debate Topic:

    What if you were allowed to write your company's vacation policy? What would you do?

    You have to live by it, so you don't want it too strict...but...if you make it too lax, your company won't get shit done, and you may end up out of a job. And plus, if it seems way too lax in the first place, it probably won't get adopted by the management.

    So...where's the line? Creative arrangements welcomed...

    Ready, go!
    Thrutchworthy Production Services

  2. #2
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    1-5 Years:

    2 weeks
    Option to buy 5 vacation flex days
    Office Closed from X-Mas to New Years

    5+ Years

    3 weeks
    Option to buy 5 vacation flex days
    Office Closed from X-Mas to New Years


  3. #3
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    Include a provision for vacation-time awards based on meeting certain goals. Craft the language such that you, in your position, have the best chances for fulfilling the terms of the provision.
    Your dog just ate an avocado!

  4. #4
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    Really miss my old vacation policy...started with 3wks, went up to four after a year or two.

  5. #5
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    start with 4 weeks each year and go up from there... follow europes lead
    what's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?

  6. #6
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    I say follow the example set by our European and Aussie counterparts: 4 weeks for starters, 6 weeks after a couple years.


    It's not the policy, but how well you can bend the rules or play the game.

    I think I set my personal record in my previous job (software co.), in an 18 month period:
    3 weeks Australia
    1 week NYC
    2 weeks Costa Rica
    2 weeks Japan/Australia ("business" = getting hammered with Sales Mgmt for 3 days)
    1 week UK/Spain ("business" = getting hammered with Sales Mgmt for 4 days)
    1 week Cham
    __________________
    10 weeks vacation in 18 months

    Looks like Karma is kicking my ass in my current job. 2 cancelled surf trips already. If I miss out on Argentina I might "fall down"

    (Edit: my job title - Straight Shooter with Upper Management written all over)
    Last edited by Superstar Punani; 07-02-2004 at 01:44 PM.

  7. #7
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    Canadian laws say you start with 2 weeks then after 5 years you get 3 weeks. 3 weeks is not enough. I'd try something like 2 weeks for the first 3 years then bump it to 3 weeks for a couple years. At 5 years bump it to 4 weeks. At ten years give them another week. But I guess it really depends on the type of work being done and the employee term expectancy.
    You are what you eat.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    There's no such thing as bad snow, just shitty skiers.

  8. #8
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    The coolest vacation policy I ever ran into was at a small engineering firm. The engineers there were your stereotypical nerds, and weren't using up all their vacation. Management was concerned because they didn't want guys getting burned out, so they instituted a policy where vacation days were paid at a double time rate (as opposed to a single time rate). They also limited this to vacation days used during the calandar year they were issued. This was great, except that around Christmas time, everyone realized that they still had a bunch of days left, so nothing got done in December because everyone was on vacation. To fix this, vacation days were issued by the quater and had to be used during that quarter to qualify for the double pay, to spread things out a little. This seemed to be a pretty good policy, although it discourages you from saving up all your vacation for use in winter.

    My current company's sick plan was clearly developed by Catbert the Evil HR Director (tm). Instead of issuing employees x sick days, they instead issue the entire department y sick days. This means that if you stay home with a case of the Mondays in January, someone who is legitimately sick may get screwed in December. As far as I can tell, we've never actually run out of sick days, but it still makes you think before taking a grtuitous sick day.

    edit - I'd also like to have the option of getting part of my raise in vacation days.

  9. #9
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    "if its getting done, you can run"

    I'll assume, for the sake of hypothesis, that this is a small-ish company with generally competent employees & not much in the way of middle management.

    1) Management meets with employees ~yearly to establish goals, several of which should be quantatative. Managers must have goals too. Public ones.
    2) Employee a) does, b) does not accomplish those goals.
    3) if a: Management tells employee to work harder. if b: Management says nothing.

    I know it's generally not this easy, but flexible goal-based attendance policies can work in smaller companies. I seen it.

    Plus, as a manager, you've got to work harder than the peons anyway.
    It's idomatic, beatch.

  10. #10
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    so how about 12 days first year, then up that to 17 or so..

    and increase by 5 days each year till you hit some limit like say 4.3 weeks

    rant

    I really hate this crap that all HR deparments need to have a set 1/2/3 week vacation.. such bullshit, so if you have 2 weeks vacation time per year, that really means you can go a on a trip for 5 work days, since other shit comes up and its near impossible not to use any vacation days untill your trip...

    good luck setting up (in 1 year timeframe) two week-long vacations when you have 2 weeks of vacation per year

    breake the mold.. do like 2.5 weeks vacation.. to start.

    end of rant.

  11. #11
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    My employer gives vacation time in leu of raises. I went almost three years with out a raise, but I have 4 weeks of vacation 4.5 days of personal holidays (read vacation) and several payed holidays like xmas eve and xmas and new year's eve and new year's.

    I would say make it performanced based. If you are able to do your job well you get more vacation. Eventually you will strike a balance.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by dubu
    so how about 12 days first year, then up that to 17 or so..

    and increase by 5 days each year till you hit some limit like say 4.3 weeks
    4.3 weeks, huh?

    Your policy sounds great, but probably not practical. No one gets that kind of vacay time in the U.S. and you'll be up to the limit after like three or four years. what's the incentive to stick around after that?

    AntiSoCal's sick leave policy: WTF? That sucks!

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Grange
    My employer gives vacation time in leu of raises. I went almost three years with out a raise, but I have 4 weeks of vacation 4.5 days of personal holidays (read vacation) and several payed holidays like xmas eve and xmas and new year's eve and new year's.

    I would say make it performanced based. If you are able to do your job well you get more vacation. Eventually you will strike a balance.
    Ding-ding-ding. We haf un weiner vis ze slight modivacation: Allow a choice of either a raise or more vacation. Amplitood of reward commensurate with seniority.

    0-3 years, 3 weeks standard.

    Or use the French model....(hey batter...)
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  14. #14
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    And don't stick by the FMLA for small companies. A birth is the holiest and most tiring event in any human's life.

    Provide a really solid paternity/maternity leave policy.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  15. #15
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    We don't have vacation or sick days. We have PTO (paid time off).

    You start right out the gate with 22 days of PTO and after 5 years it goes to 27 days of PTO. You are allowed to carry over 15 days per year up to a maximum of 48 days. If you accumulate 48 days of PTO and still don’t use it, you lose it. This is a pretty good policy and probably the best I have ever had.

    Still can suck if you get really sick with the flu and have to take a week off but you gotta take the good with the bad.
    I think I'm going mad.

  16. #16
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    The keywords to remember here Yoss are "Double Standard".


    Any questions?

  17. #17
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    My company gives you zero vacation for the first year. I think that's pretty much complete horseshit. For years 1-5 you get 80 hours, then 96 for 6-10, then it goes up a little more topping out at 4 weeks per year. It's not great, but we do get the week between Xmas and New Year's off, and that rocks.

    I guess we also get Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and the Friday after Thanksgiving.
    Last edited by The AD; 07-02-2004 at 02:30 PM.

  18. #18
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    Offices should be closed between Xmas and new years, nobody does any work then anyways.

  19. #19
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    4 weeks to start, 5 weeks after 5 years, and 6 after 10 years.

    My present job started me at 2 weeks and after 2 years I got 3 weeks (I've been here 3 years). I also get 6 paid sick days per year that are paid out if I don't take them. It's not great but a little better than the Canadian average....
    We work WAY too much in North America. Europe's got it dialed....
    Last edited by milkman; 07-02-2004 at 02:37 PM.
    Martha's just polishing the brass on the Titanic....

  20. #20
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    -4 weeks Vacation (20 days) I get another week at the 10 year mark.
    -4 personal days
    -daily OT - anything over 7.5 hrs - so a built-in 2.5hrs of OT/week

    Unfortunately we can no longer get comp time in lieu of payment for OT. It used to be that we'd get 2 hrs. straight pay and the .5 on comp, should we request it. That turned into an extra 5 days a year!

    Disclosure: I'm in a Union. In general I hate them but the benny part me likey.

    I agree with the "performance based" idea for smaller companies. It wouldn't fly in mine - there'd be too much litigation/arbitration.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Buster Highmen
    Ding-ding-ding. We haf un weiner vis ze slight modivacation: Allow a choice of either a raise or more vacation. Amplitood of reward commensurate with seniority.

    0-3 years, 3 weeks standard.

    Or use the French model....(hey batter...)
    I would alter this plan further, make both a raise and a vacation days increase part of the annual performance based compensation. This way the employees wouldn't have to choose, they would get both, and the more you give your employees the more you get. It's like a Paul McCartney said, "And in the end, the number of vacation days you get is equal to or greater than the number of vacation days.... you take" doooo dooo dooo

  22. #22
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    My first job out of college was in Ogden, Utah. My boss was a ski patroller at Snowbasin. His rule was, I was not to come in on powder days. If I came in, I was in trouble. As long as I showed proof I was skiing, all was good. I only had to carry my cell phone in case of an emergency. Seriously, how many emergencys can the youngest engineer at the company solve? The phone never rang, and I skied a lot that season.

    Other vacations that year didn't count against me either, and when I was laid off, I got a check for all my unused days!
    French Fries!

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by LCC
    and when I was laid off
    Until I read this I was thinking "why the hell did you ever leave this job?"

  24. #24
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    I would still be there today if I could be. It was a really cool job in product development, I was responsible for packaging. I got paid to break shit, just to see what it would take to break it.

    My boss had the great idea that we needed to have lunch one day. At the Mangy Moose, in Teton Village.

    Freaking moving jobs overseas!
    French Fries!

  25. #25
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    [Old Boss] Paid vacation? Are you kidding? You're lucky I pay you. You're a bunch of slackers. You'll get no vacation time and like it when I tell you to come in on your days off."

    Thank Ullr I got fired from that place for having a 'bad attitude'. Believe it or not, that place went through employees like you can't believe. Shocker Off to Winter Park for a sunset singletrack ride. Pack 'em up!!!!!
    The older I get, the better I was.

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