boot buying (ethics question)

**Skijunkie** · 08-19-2008, 01:48 AM

I'm gonna need to buy new boots this season and well quite frankly I can afford internet prices but not local shop prices. Plus I'm gonna have to at least get foot beds and possibly some shell work from the local shop.

I obviously need to try boots on and I'd hate to be the guy who tries them on and the local shop and says "naaaa not for me" only to go home and get them online.

I there any place a guy can try boots on just to see if he likes em to buy them elsewhere? Some boot demo fitting type deal (in WA for some kryptons and/or fulltilts)? Or am I forced to be that asshole?

evo seems to have fulltilts for a good price but they are rumored to be for a skinny foot, so I'm thinking kryptons... I can get krypton pro's online for like 380 with intuitions which is a sweet deal.

**bfree** · 08-19-2008, 02:03 AM

Well, you about answered your own question. Either be the asshole or don't.

Also remember that any boot you buy from a shop will probably come free with any customizations needed to make it fit perfectly. Online boots won't.

**Skijunkie** · 08-19-2008, 02:12 AM

true on the free customization, it would most likely balance out even with that deal on the krypton pros...

I haven't had to buy boots without a hookup for so long i guess I'm being a little stingy.

**RShea** · 08-19-2008, 02:32 AM

Only place that I know of that fits the description is a ski buddy friend's house. Also maybe a ski swap.

I did try a guy's used boot on to see who they were, shopped Ebay for a used pair in that size and then moved my existing foot beds into them. They needed a few punches finally for comfort and had a shop do that along with check alignment of the knee etc. (for a very reasonable fee)....

But if you have to purchase on line then you may want to consider the return/exchange policy.

Otherwise your local shop may be having summer or last years inventory closeout sales- check with them.

**XtrPickels** · 08-19-2008, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by bfree

Well, you about answered your own question. Either be the asshole or don't.

Or be very upfront. Walk in, tell the guy that you are just trying things on and to not bother spending much time with you. Ask him for the certain boots you want to try and nothing else. If you get more help from him perhaps drop a small tip.

Don't make them work to help you out if you have no intentions of helping them out.

**Conundrum** · 08-19-2008, 08:38 AM

Balance out the work the shop is going to do with the money you will save. Any decent shop is going to give lifetime fit guarantee with free labor if you buy boots from them plus discounts on footbeds.

If you bring them boots from somewhere else, expect $25-75 per session for punching, grinding, etc.

Most shops won't bat an eye if you bring them boots from somewhere else but you'd better not bat an eye when they charge fair shop labor prices.

**DoWork** · 08-19-2008, 09:22 AM

Hmmmmm... You could go to the megasuperultrastore, try them on, find what you like, say "nah, not for me" then say "screw corporate chains", buy them online and then bring them to your local mom & pop bootfitter and send them the business. REI and other big superbox stores are good for some stuff, and window shopping is definitely one of them.

That said, for the little extra money you might pay to just get 'em at the mom & pop store, they really do appreciate the business and it will show in their service.

**DoWork** · 08-19-2008, 09:24 AM

Hmmmmm... You could go to the megasuperultrastore, try them on, find what you like, say "nah, not for me" then say "screw corporate chains", buy them online and then bring them to your local mom & pop bootfitter and send them the business. REI and other big superbox stores are good for some stuff, and window shopping is definitely one of them.

That said, for the little extra money you might pay to just get 'em at the mom & pop store, they really do appreciate the business and it will show in their service.

**schuss** · 08-19-2008, 09:57 AM

Or just tell the bootfitter: "I can afford the internet pricing on this, and I'd like to get some work done too, lets make a deal"

That's essentially what I told my shop when I bought mine. Their answer? "come back in a week when we have a sale and we'll throw in the footbeds really cheap".

**oftpiste** · 08-19-2008, 10:05 AM

I did this last season with a very well known shop in the Seattle area. I was completely up-front when shell fitting and testing various lasts for my own feet. I was shopping for plugs, and told them I would be having all my work done in their shop but buying boots on the interweb. They were cool with this plan and I suspect I've given them more net profit by being a custom-fit customer than by buying a pair of boots on sale.

Basic principals apply. Be nice, be honest, if they're hammered with 'real' customers at that moment come back later, bring a six-pack once in a while and don't be a dick.

**wandering, not lost** · 08-19-2008, 10:26 AM

Next time by your boots at the end of the season, then the shop prices will be the same as or better than internet prices and you get the free bootfitting for life. I think after a whole season they may have gotten my boots to the point where my toenails won't fall off this year.

**mntlion** · 08-19-2008, 11:12 AM

what others have said.

Also add to the online price.

shipping
return shipping for warranty
no boot work included.
heating/molding the liners
any parts that you break (buckles)
Cuff alignment.

Sometimes this still can make for a great deal. Heck I run a boot fitting store and I still got a better deal online for my kryptons. but overall, buy from a local store.
If you do go in only looking for a few boots (that you can find a online deal on) the boot fitter might have a boot that fits better, or might be old stock cheaper then what you came in looking for. Finding the right boot is what they do afterall.

**Aenigma** · 08-19-2008, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by schuss

Or just tell the bootfitter: "I can afford the internet pricing on this, and I'd like to get some work done too, lets make a deal"

That's essentially what I told my shop when I bought mine. Their answer? "come back in a week when we have a sale and we'll throw in the footbeds really cheap".

I agree 100%. I like to buy local, but if I can get something $100 cheaper online there needs to be some kind of middle ground if they want my business. Just about everywhere I've gone has been willing to negotiate prices a bit, so that's at least worth a shot.

**Skijunkie** · 08-19-2008, 01:46 PM

wow lots of great advice I never thought of thanks alot everybody!!

I agree with what everyone said about being upfront with the shop not to mention giving them beer

.

I also agree with being that asshole at REI, that won't bother me at all brilliant!!!!

But even then foot beds are like 100$$ and blowing out toe boxes maybe 75$$ plus shipping and online prices are no longer so attractive!

**aim1photo** · 08-19-2008, 09:13 PM

Your boots are your most important piece of equipment. You want to have a good relationship with a real bootfitter. Find somewhere else to save money, but spend it where it really counts.

**Yukonrider** · 08-19-2008, 09:23 PM

I was in your same situation a few years ago. I found a good shop, and talked to them (the guy was on a forum) and he said to come in and they have some boots from last year for killer prices. Ended up walking out with well fit boots, good footbeds, and a happy wallet. I made sure to not be a pain, and to be patient when they were helping the guy get new superchargers.

**GordonShumway** · 08-20-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Skijunkie

wow lots of great advice I never thought of thanks alot everybody!!

I agree with what everyone said about being upfront with the shop not to mention giving them beer

.

I also agree with being that asshole at REI, that won't bother me at all brilliant!!!!

But even then foot beds are like 100$$ and blowing out toe boxes maybe 75$$ plus shipping and online prices are no longer so attractive!

It sounds like you're in Seattle, which means you can have the best of both worlds. I was in the same situation last year, needed new boots but didn't have the knowledge to go it alone. I went to Evo and told the guy who boot fit me that I'd be buying something from their online outlet (evogear.com) because I couldn't afford full retail on high end boots. The guy was cool with, especially since I was basically shopping online at the same shop. I never got free boot work done (didn't get the impression they did free work if you bought boots there, but maybe Im wrong.) but my lange's fit pretty well out of the box. Good luck!

**hutash** · 08-20-2008, 07:16 PM

It has been said before..."Never buy boots out of sight of a ski hill." Most ski town shops allow you to demo the boots, then take the demo price of the purchase, allowing to ski in the boot and make sure it is right for you. Not to mention the fact that a good boot fitter is worth their weight in gold. Getting into the right boot from the start is key. No amount of retro fitting/grinding is going to correct a poor fit.

**Flexon Phil** · 08-21-2008, 04:55 AM

Give the shop the opportunity for the business. Mom & Pops' know the internet exists and know they have to compete. If they are looking at getting a smaller profit on the boot, but will also be picking up labor and foot beds, they should be happy to get that business. Instead of making 25 cents on just a boot, they can make 10 cents on three items (boots, labor and beds).

**Buke** · 08-21-2008, 09:38 AM

This isn't really related to you questions but... I got an internet steal on a pair of boots. The deal was so good that I didn't care if they fit or not. They fit surprisingly well in the house but problems arose when I skied them. I went to Custom Boot Service (in Seattle) to see what could be done. Ended up spending a lot of money tweaking the boots, doing balance adjustments and having custom footbeds made. Through the process I realized that if I had gone to the shop and paid retail prices I still would have needed to do all of that stuff (especially the custom footbeds, I won't ever go back). In the end I still spent less money....

Related to your question; go to the local shop, buy local and get local shop service or shoot in the dark, buy online, hope you get lucky and then take the boots to Jim Mates or another qualified boot fitter and pay whatever they want.

**SkiED** · 08-21-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Skijunkie

But even then foot beds are like 100$$ and blowing out toe boxes maybe 75$$ plus shipping and online prices are no longer so attractive!

So uh what kind of shop blows out your toe box for free, let alone makes you free footbeds for buying boots there? Youre going to be paying extra from a retail store for those services anyway.

**SkiED** · 08-21-2008, 11:23 AM

They will maybe cut you a deal for footbeds if you buy boots there but they are not going to make you free footbeds and do all kinds of punches for free....not any shop ive been too.

**Long duc dong** · 08-21-2008, 11:36 AM

Sticky situation. I would buy from a shop, as you really want the perfect fit. Also, as many have already said, the additional charges from buying online may push the price very close to shop level. I would only buy online if you know exactly what you want.

I bought from ebay last winter, because I was able to find the exact boot I had been skiing for the past 6 years(tecnica icon carbon) basically brand knew for 250. I had my own custom liners already, so I did not need any boot work done, I just put my liners in the knew shells. I would only buy online if you know exactly what you want.

**gh444** · 08-21-2008, 12:30 PM

I ran into an interesting problem last year that will put a spin on this whole thing a bit.

I decided that after years of struggling to get boots to feel ok on my feet that I would go out and do it right this time around. So I did a bunch of research on the best bootfitter within 100 miles. I went to his shop and spent the good portion of a day getting fit. Custom footbed, liners, the whole sha-bang. I walked out $700 poorer. But the fit felt absolutely perfect. I was stoked.
Well the first ski trip of the season took me to CO. After ten minutes in my boots, I wanted to rip them from my feet and never put them back on. I was miserable. So I went and saw a bootfitter that I had worked with for years when I lived in CO. He made some adjustments and they felt better but from what he told me, I needed a some major work and that I needed to go back to the original bottfitter to save some money.
So I show up in this guys shop. He takes one look at the boots and says "Someone else worked on these. I can longer guarantee my fit. You'll have to pay for any and all adjustments."

I walked out. Pissed. So now I have two pieces of virtually worthless plastic that I'm not really stoked about taking hours and hours and probably hundreds of dollars tweaking.

So I'll probably just buy the right size from now on and try to make a go of it. It can't get much worse than the situation I'm in now.

**SkiED** · 08-21-2008, 12:51 PM

How is going into REI and stealing their time any less ethical than a mom/pop store? REI is a co-op... so basically you are just stealing money(dividends) from all the other REI members by wasting the REI sales peoples time.