Kayak paddle vs. singleblade

**Flaskman** · 07-30-2008, 03:59 PM

I'm posting this just to see how many times I can get called a pussy and a wimp...bring it on. Photos to come later...there's some good ones!

I am a kayaker mainly, but am getting old and starting to wind down and spend more and more time in a ducky, fishing with my woman. But we (the guys) also like to go do the Forks of the Kern (in Duckies) when the water goes down below say 500cfs. It's still class 5 in a lot of places, but mostly class 4. I just got a new Werner canoe paddle and it sure is nice. But for a technical run like that, I like my kayak paddle better. But NNNNOOOOOooooo...I'm a fucking wimp if I use that, in order to be cool I gotta use the single blade.
I say fuck being cool...I wanna be safe and stay in the boat and that's easier with a kayak paddle. I mean hell, technology advances for a reason, it's far better to have a blade on both sides of the boat. If the indians woulda thought of it, they would have used one, too.

Last weekend I dropped into Lower Freemans and got pushed right, right into a fucking rock...started to wrap and had to bail out in order to keep the boat from wrapping. I would not have hit that rock had I had my kayak paddle in hand. In the swim I took a shot to my thigh that just about broke my femur. I got back in the boat and after the adrenaline wore down, kept going. It would really suck to break a femur two days into the back country. I did fine the rest of the way, but still would have had more fun with a blade on both sides like I'm used to.

So what the hell? Why is it wussy to use a kayak paddle in a ducky? And if you just call me a pussy, then lets see you use a single blade in your kayak, tough guy!

**XXX-er** · 07-30-2008, 05:34 PM

I thot duckies WERE paddled with kayak paddles ? We don't really see many of them up here so forgive my ignorance ... but I would say paddle it with whatever you like

**MarsB** · 07-31-2008, 11:16 AM

I concur w/XXX-er, all the duckying around these parts is done with two blades.

**jm2e** · 07-31-2008, 08:45 PM

Are you seriously thinking people are judging your wimp-hood or coolness?
That's thought is as weird as what you're doing.
Paddle whatever you want, but if you flail around people will frown on you. If you can maintain your shit, then people will either ignore you or respect you.
Of course if you're really running serious whitewater, this is another case of your story not making sense. How many class IV/V boaters are really so out of touch with boating?
Maybe you should hook up with the guy open boating the Gauley who thinks he's not that good.
On a side note:
I thought the kern got sketchier at low water as the undercuts were more pronounced?

**406** · 08-01-2008, 09:08 AM

Hey Flaskman, are you the guy doing the Jungle run ( Lower Kern ) trash clean up a couple weekends ago? I was in the blue AIRE IK with my girlfriend.

If your knees can handle the kneeling, I say single blade on easier stuff, working your way to more difficult.

**Flaskman** · 08-01-2008, 03:22 PM

Hey 406...yep, that was me and my maiden voyage with my new paddle. It was nice to meet you...and thanks for helping Joe get his Oar from the bottom of the river...that was a pretty good trick!

jm2e...dude, right back atcha...you would be called a gaper here. The Forks is certainly class 4/5 at low water, and it's actually pretty easy with a kayak paddle, but significanly more difficult with a single blade. The situation here is that one of the grandfathers of whitewater here, Chuck Richards, is of the opinion that anyone going through his guide school has to use a singleblade paddle or you are a wimp. So all of his students, which have become the best boaters in the valley, have that same opinion. I am not of that opinion and so I have been called a wimp...no big deal, but it just seems wrong. If you came to do the Forks in a ducky and used your kayak paddle, you too would be considered a wimp even if you ripped it with your kayak paddle. I can see how once you get used to using a single blade it would get easier, but it just seems like unnecessary tornment, especially against the wind. Single blades are great for fishing and doing mellow stuff, but for the Forks it seems wrong. However, these other guys don't seem to have much problems...so it must get easier once you master the technique. I was hoping to hear from some canoeists who could shed some light on the mentality of the singleblade.

The Kern has many personalities from the Forks to the North to the Lower below the lake. Some sections get more sketchy at low water for a variety of reasons, but mostly it gets easier. To me, the fear factor goes up when the water is stompin...

I can't get the Image button to work to post photos...is anyone else have that problem?

**jm2e** · 08-01-2008, 04:10 PM

Is this Chuck Richards guy running a raft guiding school or something? I guess I can see forcing you to use a single paddle to move a duck since it would be the same approach as pushing a raft. Then you force guides to realize that they need the ability to R-1 everything and stop relying on their crews.
If he's just some kind of Nazi Ducky guy that's just the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. A duck is a duck is a duck. If he wants to prove he isn't a wimp, tell him to get in a hard boat or STFU. I know people get into ducks for all kinds of valid reasons, but unless it's to run some ultra low volume, ultra steep jungle river, then proving your coolness is not one of them. Since paddling is supposed to be for fun, then paddling in a duck should be just that: fun.
Tell Chuck Richards to go paddle in the Southeast and watch them eat him alive. Not a lot of ducks out there!

**jm2e** · 08-01-2008, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Flaskman

...I can see how once you get used to using a single blade it would get easier, but it just seems like unnecessary tornment, especially against the wind....

....I was hoping to hear from some canoeists who could shed some light on the mentality of the singleblade.

If you look at it from the raft guiding perspective, then it's all about position and momentum. Rather than focusing on maneuverability within the rapid, the idea is that if you set yourself up right you will end up in the right spot. The paddle just keeps your angle for the most part. It's definitely a light bulb moment when it clicks. Watch the good and the bad guides. The bad guides use their crews a lot for turning and redirection, and they themselves only put their paddles in the water to make strokes. The good guides have their paddle in the water 90% of the time making the micro adjustments and the perfectly timed big sweeps and prys. The crew is there for fun and momentum and the good guide is usually calling to them calmly with plenty of notice before they're needed. This is why canoeists and C-boaters have an easier time raft guiding than do kayakers, as they have a better understanding of timing, position and momentum.
If you take this approach in your duck, you'll only need the single blade for some forward strokes to establish momentum and from there on out you'll just be steering. Even if you use a double, you should strive to use it minimally, maintaining where you want to be rather than a crutch that allows you to be sloppy because you're used to being able to overcome mistakes.

**Flaskman** · 08-01-2008, 04:57 PM

Yeah, for them it's all about position and just nosing the tip of your boat into the eddyline and using the water to help steer you. That's fine...most of the time. But when you drop in to the gnarl and have to aim right to counter a lateral, but then have to move quickly back to the left to avoid the rocks further down on the right where the current is pushing you, that gets a bit tricky. I've never had a problem making that move with a kayak paddle, but with the singleblade I was screwed. I won't make that mistake again. I guess I'm just still pissed that I swam through one of my favorite rapids and took a huge shot to my thigh, which is now black and blue all down the inside of my leg.

Chuck Richards is certainly deserving of respect on the water, he's the man with a singleblade. He's been running one of the most successful rafting companies on the Kern River since maybe 1975...http://www.chuckrichards.com/river/ But he's had some conflict with the forest circus and he lost his permit. So now he just runs private trips and guides for the other companies when he can. He is sort of a ducky nazi, though!

no one else having problems posting a photo? my link button doesn't work nor does my image button.

**Gerome** · 08-01-2008, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by jm2e

Is this Chuck Richards guy running a raft guiding school or something? I guess I can see forcing you to use a single paddle to move a duck since it would be the same approach as pushing a raft. Then you force guides to realize that they need the ability to R-1 everything and stop relying on their crews.
If he's just some kind of Nazi Ducky guy that's just the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. A duck is a duck is a duck. If he wants to prove he isn't a wimp, tell him to get in a hard boat or STFU. I know people get into ducks for all kinds of valid reasons, but unless it's to run some ultra low volume, ultra steep jungle river, then proving your coolness is not one of them. Since paddling is supposed to be for fun, then paddling in a duck should be just that: fun.
Tell Chuck Richards to go paddle in the Southeast and watch them eat him alive. Not a lot of ducks out there!

jm2e often has an elitist view in posts I've read of his, but I definitely agree with his point about who cares if you've got a single or double blade. It might be more of a question about who are you paddling with? Does Chuck Richardson paddle on his knees in a ducky too like every of the other C-1ers I've paddled with? Granted they're in modified hard shell kayaks. If you're downgrading from a hardshell to a ducky and running the gnar, do what's going to keep you in the boat. If there's a reason behind a certain method, that's cool, but I think we're a little old to buy into peer pressure, you wimp. It does sound like a great way to improve your raft paddling skills. Are they the only people you paddle with? Maybe try hanging out with other paddlers.....

**jm2e** · 08-01-2008, 11:32 PM

Elitist?
From whence dost though cometh to perceive myself on high brow?
Perchance a clue to those offending gestures I hath made so as to allow mine self to repeal and offer sufficient apologies.
Allow my good name to be cleared!

**jm2e** · 08-01-2008, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Flaskman

Yeah, for them it's all about position and just nosing the tip of your boat into the eddyline and using the water to help steer you. That's fine...most of the time.

Young grasshopper....there exists a magical point at the start of every rapid...at such point a small buoyant object, such as a ping pong ball... beginning it's journey, it will finish this rapid at precisely the desired final location....BE the ping pong ball!!!!!

Some old dude taught me this once.

**BigDaddyLionfish** · 08-10-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Flaskman

So what the hell? Why is it wussy to use a kayak paddle in a ducky? And if you just call me a pussy, then lets see you use a single blade in your kayak, tough guy!

I use a single blade in my canoe

**steved** · 10-28-2008, 11:54 AM

...educational!...and I've thought it was about the difficult water for so long....

...ya' live & learn...

;-)

**leroy jenkins** · 10-28-2008, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Flaskman

If the indians woulda thought of it, they would have used one, too.

They did, kayak is an Inuit word.

**Flaskman** · 10-29-2008, 05:51 PM

Well, since I first posted that I've used that new Werner Canoe Paddle on a number of trips and it's certainly getting easier. I can even see how it's better in some situations...like when I have my fishing pole in one hand and my paddle in the other I can still pull myself into or out of an eddy with one hand and not have to give up my drift. Or when I have a beer in one hand and the paddle in the other I can still manuver with one hand. Or, like jm2e said, if I position myself properly at the top of a rapid it's pretty easy to get through it. However, when it comes to gnarly class V shit (at low water) I still feel better with my kayak paddle just so I have a stroke on both sides when needed cuz the consequences of not having that stroke far outweigh the image of using a single blade.

We ran the Rogue again this year and I was in a ducky with my single blade instead of a 14' oar boat. The commercial guides were all impressed that I had a canoe paddle instead of a kayak paddle like all the other gapers...so it was pretty cool getting props from the dread-headed hotty guides. I guess if I keep using it I'll continue to get better and it will feel better when I get in the gnarl.

**RootSkier** · 10-30-2008, 09:13 AM

Yeah, but you'll still be in a ducky.

**Flaskman** · 10-30-2008, 10:58 AM

Yeah, I know...I'm almost 50...my hardcore days are definitely behind me. However, I do still have fun in my kayak...I'm a solid class IV paddler...no interest in anything more than that cuz my roll just ain't so bomber anymore. But...we do have Brush Creek right here and that's just got to be the easiest creek with big drops and no real consequences...perfect.