Middle Fork Salmon (BETA request)

[ski_adk]

So, I might be getting into a trip near the end of may on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. Everything I've seen so far is saying that it will be high water. I'll likely be floating an oar rig with my gf, who's an experienced guide back East with experience on the Hudson, Kennebeck and the Dead. She has 6+ years of guiding experience to my 1. Anyways, before we commit, we're trying to figure out just whether this will be in our comfort level or not. How dangerous does the river get at high water? Is it shit-your-pants, just try not to die kinda of scary or just really fun? Descriptions I've seen online say it will be "beyond treacherous". What the hell does that mean?

Also, what's up with the road at that time of year. I see snippets here and there about snow cover until mid-June. Do you really have to fly-in or is there another put-in to drive to?

For reference (just in case anyone can relate), the highest water I've seen has been the Hudson at 6' which was really just quite fun. Thanks for the input.

[Conundrum]

It'll be big and fast. The kind of flow kayakers can do the whole run in a day from sun up to sun down. You'll either fly in to Indian Creek or float Marsh. Marsh has A LOT of strainers that change every year. Lots of horror stories from Marsh Creek. You can pay for a snowcat ride in sometimes.

Your best bet for beta would be the Idaho Whitewater group in yahoo or kayakidaho.com online or call some of the outfitters out of Stanley, or Aire or Maravia here in Boise.

The river is doable at big flows...just have to know what you are doing.

[LT]

I floated Marsh Creek to the Middle Fork 7 years ago. Came from guiding oar boats on the Snake River in JH and paddle boats in Oregon on the Clackamas. So I had a couple of seasons of big water as well as technical low flow water.

I forget the actual flows but it was high and big. I was rowing a fully loaded 14 or 16' boat and got my ass KICKED. Marsh was very pushy with no eddy's at all. Literally just a couple of spots to stop and those required a flying leap and bank scramble. Lots of strainers and wood in the creek.

The Middle was pushy but definitely manageable and fun, rapids were big but if I recall correctly pretty easily scoutable.

If you're going to go, make sure you're dialed rower with a set up you feel comfortable with...make sure you're dialed. Think that was my biggest problem on Marsh Creek was that there was no warm up or chance to get comfortable with the oar rig we had rented. By day 2 I was dialed but by that point the hard shit was over and had thuroughly worked me over.

The Middle Fork is an awesome river through some beautiful country; the beaches and hot springs were amazing. If you go have fun and be safe.

[carvedog]

Yes it will be big. The road will not be open. Marsh Creek can and will kick your ass given the opportunity.

The only way that I will take down a fully loaded oar boat is with kayak probes out front. There are no eddies. The last time I did Marsh I forgot to take off my wedding ring before starting and had about 4 miles in and a blister before I could slow down and get my rocket box open to keep it safe.

It seems to be pretty much continuous class 2+ with class 4 ( or more ) consequences every where that mostly involve wood.

In 2005 we drove in, even though the road was supposed to be muddy and everyone getting stuck ( which I did), another trip we saw in town decided to run Marsh and 11 cats and rafts went under a river wide log right at river surface that you couldn't see until you were thirty feet away. They had so much damage and one broken ankle that they had to cancel the trip.

Not trying to scare you out of doing the trip, but you should plan on going slow, Scouting blind corners and having kayaks around to scout ahead.

Good luck.

[bryanthebold]

Things should be pretty interesting to say the least. Our neighbors just went down last week and they reported lots of strainers over the river, hard to even get around in a kayak, let alone a raft. They are running it again this week with chainsaws and kayaks out front, hopefully able to clear the river for the cats behind them. Right now the level isn't huge, its below five feet, but that doesn't really make it any easier when you have massive log jams. Pistol creek is apparently still a mandatory portage. If your starting at Marsh creek, you will have to run Dagger Falls, which is class V. I hear its easier to run once the water gets higher, but lower water on it makes it very technical and boney. I hear there is also a potential river wide log jam above Dagger too, but thats from reports back in May 2005.

I've got a permit for June 2nd... and judging by how much snow we have... it won't be much of a runnable river for me around peak.

[carvedog]

Pistol creek is apparently still a mandatory portage. If your starting at Marsh creek, you will have to run Dagger Falls, which is class V. I hear its easier to run once the water gets higher, but lower water on it makes it very technical and boney. I hear there is also a potential river wide log jam above Dagger too, but thats from reports back in May 2005.

I've got a permit for June 2nd... and judging by how much snow we have... it won't be much of a runnable river for me around peak.

The log jam on Marsh was not there last spring, but its location regularly gathers up logs for unsuspecting boaters. It is on a blind corner to the right and can look up the exact location on a map i was sent. Don't need to remember it as I will be driving in to Boundary on the 19th and won't have a chance to float before that.

One of a group of 11 that got flushed the same day two of my buddies kayaked Marsh to meet us for the MF, went under a log in the same place the next year. Even after getting out and scouting in the area of the log, but they missed it.

Beside the 3 days when Lake Creek massively blew out in 2006, there has been no mandatory portage at Pistol. Two different pilots that I have talked to have flown the first 25 miles and reported no major jams. Some isolated large logs still spanning the river.

There is a large log pitoned vertically in the second drop at Dagger. Saw some pics posted of it from some folks the other day.

Not so steep at almost 9 feet. Dagger.
http://smithadventure.com/album/2006...r_Falls_3.html

video
http://tinyurl.com/3kws2j

Log in Dagger approx. 10 days ago.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idahow...iew/bd83?i=535
you may have to have a yahoo id to view or join.

Also heard of log spanning the river within a half mile of the launch.

Hope those guys with the saws are careful. That is a pretty serious offense and most of those FS folk have no sense of humor about gas engines. Of course dyanmite was grandfathered in with the old time sense of wilderness ethics.

Be careful out there.

[switchbitch]

Did the MF last week and it got huge the last 2 days. Did the last 35 miles at around 7 feet the waves were massive 15ft+. I think it peaked at around 8.5 and is back to 7ish now. Marsh was not bad with no portages but we had an excellent crew. With all the floaters and strainers and the river juicing like it is who knows now though. Half or more of the camps are flooded out too with almost no options through the canyon. Swimming is not an option. Not reccomended at this level unless you're pretty damned experienced. A plane into Indian from Salmon will run you $500-800 depending on your size needs. Good Luck!

[old p hound]

The road is open.

[old p hound]

I'm reading reports this morning that the road is open.

[Snow Ranger]

I just got off a trip last night. Marsh Creek had one log portage, everything on the middle fork was clear of logs. People reported floating rafts over the log on marsh creek. I talked with a group that gashed a giant hole in one of their boats attempting to float over the log, so I would take the time to portage. The river was crankin, a group I talked to at sheep eater hot springs told me that there where like 3 raft accessible eddies on the first 30ish miles. However, in a kayak there are plenty of eddies. The water was very cold I wouldn't want to swim. A swim could and has resulted in death. Just before Boundary Creek you will want to scout and maybe portage dagger falls, a guy on my trip ran it the week before and 3 of 4 rafts flipped, so the rest portaged. The waves on the lower half are really big even in section without named rapids. My group ran the whole thing in 3 days 2 nights we floated the last 50 miles in about 5-6 hours.
IMHO - Very fun very fast very cold.
hopefully I'll have some good photos to post later...

[RTR]

I'll have some good photos to post later...

Do post pictures, indeed. I'll be running it next Tuesday...

[ML]

I may have the opportunity to kayak the Middle Fork in late July. Can somebody provide some insight of what conditions, river level to expect later in the season? I have friends that have the permit, so it will be a question of whether or not there is an open slot on the trip.

[Bunion 2020]

Impossible to say what the water levels will be at by late July.

It doesn't matter. If there is a slot and you like the group, GO!

By then it will be pretty straight forward for any kayaker with a roll, if your roll isn't that good, the weather will be hot, the water levels will be down so, its just water, it won't hurt to swim.

The camping by then will be great, the campgrounds are all getting a good douching with this high water so what the hell.

I have about 50 MF trips in at all water levels and weather conditions and I never failed to have a great time.

GO!

[ML]

Thanks. It should be a good group. They are all from Idaho Falls and have been doing the trip for five or six years. Most of the group is in rafts with five or six kayakers. I'm comfortable in east coast Class IV, so hopefully swimming won't be an issue. But still, we're all just between swims. I've never done an overnighter on the river, so I'm hoping to get the spot. It will definitely be different scenery.

[Bunion 2020]

If you are comfortable with Class-IV on the east coast you will have no problems. The MF is a pretty non-technical affair. Just good clean, safe, non-undercut fun.

You should know that private trips can take up to 24 people.

So there should be a spot for you. Take a play boat and have a blast.

[ML]

They are currently sitting at 36 interested. They said that, by the time everybody actually has to commit to the trip, there have always been a few open spots. One of the owners of the company that I work for runs the trip, so there should be good communication as people start to drop.

Play boat 'eh? Good. You just answered another question.

Thanks.

[Idkayakr]

Hey Guys,
My 17 y/o son just launched on his first trip of the summer as a flunky for a great rafting company. It was snowing in Stanley when they launched. Dad wants to hear what the conditions on the river are like. Anyone got a recent report?

[RootSkier]

It's cold. Very cold.

[Idkayakr]

Yeah, I hope he has the good sense to use the gear I sent with him. I figured every other rain drop would be a snow flake. What a great year for the whitewater though.

[ski_adk]

Thanks for all the advice. FYI, I didn't wind up going and I'm actually kinda glad. The report from our friends was that the water was HUGE and woody. Last year's fire damage and this winter's big snow meant lots of avy debris floating down river. The kayakers on the trip had fun, but apparently the rafters had quite a miserable time and all 3 flipped several times each. There was something mentioned about another raft group doing a 5 hour portage around a log jam. Anyways, I think I'll wait for another year and lower water before I try this epic.

[RTR]

Just got back from this 98 mile or so section of river. Fantastic... If you have any questions as to conditions, pm me. Too tired to really go into details...