What's a Good First Boat?

[Chiz]

So i'm a total NOOB JONG. captial letters. If i cared enough to bold it, I would.

I finally have some money and a bud who's stoked, and I want to get into whitewater (in baby steps). I'm planning on finding a guide and taking some lessons, but what is a good first boat? I want something that I can grow into... any ideas? What makes a good boat?

[RootSkier]

Where do you live? What kind of kayaking do you aspire to?

The boat should be the least of your concerns. You will go through boats faster than any other piece of gear. With that in mind, I recommend spending most of your cash on drygear and safety equipment.

That said, I would recommend getting a used playboat. A two year old playboat would be perfect and you should be able to get one for $400. Then spend the rest of your money on:

1) The best drytop you can afford
2) a good sprayskirt
3) a NEW life jacket (PFD)
4) a good helmet with lots of protection, not a Protec
5) decent footwear that fits in your boat
6) whatever paddle you have money left over for
7) A throwbag

Good luck.

[Storm11]

Ditto on what RootSkier said.

I'll add to his list of essentials though:

8. FLOAT BAGS
9. Nose Plugs (Smileys)
10. Ear plugs (Docs)

9 and 10 will help you stay calm under water, which help your roll. #8 is an absolute necessity if you want your friends to retrieve your boat more than once (which you will)

and

11. non-fold Knife and a whistle


That being said, a good boat depends on what you want to do. If you simply want to playboat, then buy a playboat. It will have the steepest learning curve, and you'll definitely get worked a lot, but it will be a boat you'll be able to grow into ability wise. The LiquidLogic Visions, Jackson Stars, Dagger Agent and Crazy 88's are "easier" rolling playboats than most. Stay away from the Pyranha 420 unless you like swimming a lot.

If you want to only run rivers and not play so much, then get a river runner. Easier to roll and brace, more stable and more forgiving. The Wavesport Diesel, Jackson Hero (this years, not older ones), Pyranha Ammo or Recoil, Liquid Logic Remix, Bliss Stick Mystic, Dagger Mamba are all great boats in this category.

If you want a little of both, then get a cross-over (or "river running playboat"). They're good beginner boats, but you'll grow out of it pretty quickly, unless you only plan to boat a couple times a year. They don't really do anything great, but do everything ok. They're easy to roll and stable, plus you'll be able to learn basic freestyle moves that you most likely couldn't do in a full on river runner. Wavesport EZGs or EZs or Fuse, Liquid Logic Cross River, Jackson Funs are all good boats. Stay away from Dagger in this area.

[ridinshockgun]

+1 for floatbags and everything else mentioned above. Not sure about nose plugs, never liked them myself.

If you're aggressive get a playboat. You'll learn and advance much faster if you're willing to take a few thrashings.

If you're looking to take it easy get a river runner. But if you do advance fairly quickly you'll want something else before your first season is over.

I went through about 3 boats (RR to RR playboat to playboat) in the first year because I didnt just go ahead and buy a playboat from the beginning.

[chrismo720]

welcome, first of all...

i agree with what everyone said up there.
One thing I learned is that you should splurg and buy what you want/what you need, not what looks in your price range.

Its my second season and i have went through 2 paddles, 2 jackets, 2 helmets,ect,ect...it doesnt help working at a shop where i can upgrade my gear whenever I want....but deff step up and get the goods so you dont have to upgrade later on..

As far as boats, I am in love with my pyranha . It will be a little hard at first because of the strong edges, but this will actually help you, teaching you to pick up the right edge and whatnot for eddy's and all that fun stuff...

A real easy boat to learn in would be a diesel, they, like the can do everything well and are a fun boat to paddle

[Chiz]

Thanks guys, great advice. I sail a lot so i totally feel where you're coming from re: good high quality gear. I'll start trolling for a good used playboat I think, and save the big bucks for gear. I live in Calgary and I know there is a community so no doubt there are used boats kicking around

[SuperChief]

Thanks guys, great advice. I sail a lot so i totally feel where you're coming from re: good high quality gear. I'll start trolling for a good used playboat I think, and save the big bucks for gear. I live in Calgary and I know there is a community so no doubt there are used boats kicking around

Yep Calgary is cold definately get a drytop, spend the money on a good one and it pays off, I've been using the same patagonia nemo drytop for 9 years.

Get a playboat that is a little longer than a spud boat so you can actually catch waves and learn to surf. 7 feet is a good length

Maybe an old wavesport ez, The spud boats are way too much work in turbulent eddies.

[XXX-er]

I live in Calgary and I know there is a community so no doubt there are used boats kicking around

http://www.aquabatics.com/default.as...0&V_DOC_ID=776


if yer in cowtown aquabatics is where its at ,.Find out about their pool seshions at SAIT ,you can play around,try different boats and maybe someone will help you get a roll for just a very cheap pool sesh fee.The cute lifeguards (female) are often friendly and looking for fresh meat ... also a bonus

find out about AQ's lessons ,find out what boat you might like,get into the scene ,you can rent a boat for the river and put the rental fee on a boat IN the same season

the boat swap every spring has many used boats and at least in 2006 there were about 50 used boats for sale and whatever new gear they were kicking out.Scope it early and get there at doors open

you don't need a new boat ,lots of good used plastic out there ,boats come n go like girl friends ... especialy if you end up becoming a river god

but stuff like

a decent paddle - don't phuckaround ... go for a glass werner make sure to get the right shaft size

a good pfd WITH rescue towbelt -add on rescue belts get in the way/ fall-off and end up in japan

a reasonable helmet -you don't need a glitter boy job ... go for 3/4 coverage

a dry top - Kokatat is the shit ... gortex if you can afford is NICE

a 3mm farmer john wetsuit - provides bump and scrape protection as you swim down the Kan

better to spend a little coin and gett the right stuff NOW cuz you WILL have this stuff for a long time and it WILL be more expensive to buy twice when you want to upgrade later

BUT boats will come and go easier than the girlfriend's who will tire of you coming home late stinking of rancid polypro & neoprene,going boating instead of being with her ,your strange new paddling buddies all of whom seem to have varying degrees of ADHD,talking incessantly about something she doesnt understand ... ya dude now yer a river god

[L7]

When I've looked for used boats I found them pretty pricey. Maybe with a new season US dollar parity will have trickled into the new stock some more and hopefully the used will follow. MEC has their gear site but again a bit steep for used I thought.

[XXX-er]

I always found MEC swap board prices kinda high for everything ,those peopel seem to wana get just about what they payed for the gear new

Its been as high as paying close to 1500$ and tax for a ww boat so i don't really consider the current prices bad at all but I would expect the higher canuck buck to be good for new boat prices .Some good deals at AQ right now on good boats like the project/ZG/crazy 88/agent many good boats<1000$ whcih is GOOD!.The EZG would probably be a really good river runner/play boat ,I have a newbie friend who did well in one

http://www.aquabatics.com/ProductCar...&idproduct=749


buddy doesnt really know enough to know what he wants and we don't know how tall /what he weighs/ foot size/inseam but he will likely be doing a bunch of swimming & paddling on the Kan inside of or hanging onto a playboat


In fairness since I am suggesting AQ I supose I should note that I have in the past and will sometime in the future possibly will do work for this outfit .Undercurrents is I believe the only other game in town and the stores are really close to one another

http://www.undercurrents.ca/

[RootSkier]

Hey XXXer, glad to see you got past the dragons at the gate.

[XXX-er]

those were my own personal dragons RS

[SuperChief]

look in gearswap for that pyrahna seven O, that boat looks like a good all around playboat/riverrunner, think it's in Bozeman, with the strength of the US dollar you might be getting a sweet deal

[RTR]

I'd say the wavesport XXX... well, maybe not.

[XXX-er]

You must be kidding, XXX is THE most edgey plastic boat in existance ,there is NO foot room ,it took me 2 months and 6 tries to out fit , anybody over a 32" inseam forget it.

If yer really light around 100lb its not so bad cuz you might fit & draw less water so the edges stay out of the water , at 170 its an experiance

easy to roll tho ,1st boat I ever got a hand roll in

IMO you gotta think resale ,sure you pay more for a used EZ than say a sleek or a savage fury but you will sell a POPULAR used boat like an EZ /space cadet/EZG and get most of that coin back whereas you take the bait for some old out of date design & who is gona buy it ?

[willywhit]

doh, thot u meant a real boat. I'll post it anyway
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/616832420.html
kiss ass and burn some gas

[RTR]

You must be kidding, XXX is THE most edgey plastic boat in existance ,there is NO foot room ,it took me 2 months and 6 tries to out fit , anybody over a 32" inseam forget it.

If yer really light around 100lb its not so bad cuz you might fit & draw less water so the edges stay out of the water , at 170 its an experiance

easy to roll tho ,1st boat I ever got a hand roll in

IMO you gotta think resale ,sure you pay more for a used EZ than say a sleek or a savage fury but you will sell a POPULAR used boat like an EZ /space cadet/EZG and get most of that coin back whereas you take the bait for some old out of date design & who is gona buy it ?

For the record, I've never been sarcastic in my life.

[XXX-er]

I got that

The most water I consistantly I paddled the XXX in was some grade 4 on the upper quesnel and the bigger hydralics were alot of fun , at 170 I had to be REALLY careful about keeping CHARC on those big wide sqirrely eddy lines or you spin out ... its somewhat like a squirt boat except there is too much volume around trhe cockpit for downtime .In big waves you were just a submarine thru the peaks

My 14 yr old kid had no probs but I think at the time he was < 150 ... or maybe he was just better than me .A year later he grew a couple or 3 " and couldnt fit

But total newbies should be very careful of people who want to sell you old dogs ,I seen the newb show up with some old piece of shit more than once ...then what do you say especialy if he bought it from somebody you know in the local scene ?Thats why its kinda nice to get independant advice form a creditable source ,sean who used to work at AQ would tell you if something was a piece of shit , even if it was for sale in his shop ... no bulshit ever

[JoeStrummer]

i'm a big kid who can get a Super EZ used for $500. Should I do it?

[RootSkier]

Offer $300 first.

[RTR]

Offer $300 first.

Agreed. I don't see $500 as that amazing of a price... besides, even the big ez is a god-forsaken curse to get into... it kills my knees. I'd say don't spend more than $350, maybe $375... unless it's absolutely MINT.

[JoeStrummer]

It was used in the ocean exclusively and comes with the skirt - looks to be in great shape.

I appreciate the baseline for pricing, I'm fairly ignant about what I should spend on a used boat but tired of demoing. I'm a cornfed lad who has rented a Super EZ before and enjoyed it for my purposes (river runner, bit of play.)

[RTR]

i'm a big kid who can get a Super EZ used for $500. Should I do it?

Here's one without a seat for $200... I can't imagine a new seat direct from wavesport costs more than $75-$100... that'd still be a lot cheaper.

Here's the link: http://boatertalk.com/gear/gear-detail.php?gid=37770

I think it's in Moscow, Idaho.

[XXX-er]

what is big ,Over 200LB ? there i still the big easy in there between the easy and the super . I googled just for yucks and found this eddy flower they got a boat guide ...looks like a good source of beta

http://www.eddyflower.com/ShowBoat.aspx?BoatId=108

a boat without a seat was likely converted to C-1 and then the seat dissappeared (seen that happen ) so depending on how buddy did that there could be more holes in the hull to anchor the c-1 setup ... usually more beat up

yeah RR the thigh braces on the big ez lik pouch , my theory is the FAT system came along AFTER the boat was designed and was retro'ed into the easy while the transformers (a dog) ZG's (good), and anything after were designed around FAT. I took my thigh braces out stuck a sheet of 1/4 minicell under the deck,aqua sealed the hole, cut the top off of that foot brace and it was alll good even shaved 5 lbs , was great on the biggest water I ever run and it was ergonomicly better for my bod. Real happy ... except someone stole it off the roof

[JoeStrummer]

I go 245 or so when not trying out for the Professional Eating Circuit.