DIY Alpine Touring binding.

[vanisle]

Very nicely done,makes my effort look..well ghetto
I predict a bull market in the gear swap for demo binders and trekkers

[2nd mate]

2nd...did.
Fine work. just like a rocket surgeon.

[srsosbso]

thank ye both

And vanisle- sometimes quick and dirty is watcha need. You were just looking for the proverbial quick fix until your dukaramas arrived, no? I was planning to walk- and have been walking- all winter on these things.

[todug27]

very very impressed, if only i had a spare pair of skis, trekkers, or demo bindings...

[srsosbso]

Holy fukkin shit. The tele demo solution solved!

Well done!

I've been thinking about whether this would work for a tele option like I said it would earlier, and I think there are some issues/problems. One is that the tele bindings have set mounting points, whereas the touring rig that I "magivered" could be drilled wherever to match the holes in the demo binding plate. The second is that tele set-ups need a heel plate both for a platform and for a heel lift. You'd need a way to mount that to the heel rail system, which might not be straightforward. Third, the rail system is heavy, which isn't what most telewackers are looking for.

So, with apologies to splat, I'm not sure this has quite the tele-potential I had first thought. I still think if the system was built ground up it could be incorporated, but as a DIY option, I dunno. Greater minds than mine should feel to weigh in.

[AKWL]

Hey, I had a similar idea and even did a bunch of CAD work. Never made it to the prototype stage due to lack of time and cash. I just met an old buddy who has access to a CNC machine, so maybe I'll resurrect the project!

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=83385

I had intended to make the whole development process open to feedback from the TGR community. Sadly, there wasn't a lot of interest.

[peck257]

pretty sick--solid engineering

[MOHSHSIHd]

This deserves a bump. Fucking awesome idea. I want to make a pair for next year.

[tdl16]

nice work srsosbso, good to see someone getting off their ass and making shit that has the potential to out-perform many of the big name brands. how do you find the toe bails? they always feel too sloppy for me

[addict]

that is ghetto fabulous, the only downside I see is skiing on demo binders.

Some of the look demo binders aren't all that bad. I once severely injured myself from a prerelease on a pair once, but I trust them more than fritschis.

[srsosbso]

Thanks all.

tdl16- I know what you mean about the toebails. Sometimes when I first get in my boots are not alligned properly. But I can twist them into place in a second and they seem to stay there. It is important to have LOTS of tension on the heel bail- like, so you can barely close them.

addict- honest to god, I have zero problems with the look demos. I ski them at about DIN of 9.5 on the front, 10.5 on the back (I'm only about 165lbs) and they have NEVER prereleased. I find the look pivots at those settings to be better than sollys or tyrolias at DIN of 11. And I can't honestly tell the difference between the demos and regular p12's.

If I was doing it again, I'd consider cutting the rear (heel) binding track in half before mounting on the ski to reduce the footprint and the weight. I don't need the range for boot sizes- I just need to be able to slide the heel piece on and off. Apart from that, these have worked out pretty well.

[trainnvain]

nice work srsosbso, good to see someone getting off their ass and making shit that has the potential to out-perform many of the big name brands. how do you find the toe bails? they always feel too sloppy for me

Wrap duct tape around the bail a little.

[awake1563]

DAMN! bump for such a great idea... I was wondering the same thing as a previous poster about the security of the plastic 2 screw touring attachment... what about using a couple mm thick flat piece of metal for reinforcement? Good shit anyways...

[mb2778]

first off, this is unbelievably cool! definitely some of the most impressive DIY i've seen... I was just wondering if anyone can think of a way to make these safe(r) for avalanche terrain travel. Of course we shouldn't be skinning up those ways anyway, but just in case. that's my only reservation about them, but if anyone can figure out a solution to this problem (or tell me why it's not such a big problem) I'm off to the garage and pulling out the tools!

[awake1563]

mb... as long as you're not strapping the heel retainer to your boot, just throw a small piece of strap on it to make it easier to grab when you need to release... one good yank with a few inches of webbing or something... seems like it would work?

[khakis]

about time for a bump on this...
2006 px12 demos should work similarly, correct?

[hop]

Holy fukkin shit. The tele demo solution solved!

Well done!

Salomon had a similar system in 1999 so us freeheelers could demo the amazing AK Rocket and the 1080. Riva2's bolted to the demo plate thingy was awesome!

Edit: just read the rest of the thread. My $0.02 = This would only be for convenience so you could use the same pair of skis with numerous binders, so a weight penalty is not that big a deal in exchange for convenience. Also, tele bindings can be mounted anywhere and moving them around is often quite useful (see K2 inserts). Finally, tele setups are so sloppy by design that I doubt anyone would ever notice additional play unless they were on bulletproof snow.

[corn dog]

about time for a bump on this...
2006 px12 demos should work similarly, correct?

Not so much, you can't remove the heel piece. On the P12 demos the heel piece slides right off the plate like the toe piece.

[Core Shot]

WOW - how the fuck did I miss this thread.

Pure genius on your part.
Kudos.

[jonnyquest]

P 12's for $79 right now:

http://www.levelninesports.com/look-...s-p-2163.html?

[summit]

What are you calling these? P12s and Day-wreckers... P-Wreckers? Peckers? PTs?

Strengths:
1. Alpine bindings!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Alpine bindings!!!!!!!!!!!
3. P12s!!!!!!!!
4. Almost no weight attached to heel that must be lifted with each step while touring
5. Cheap (but not really noticeably cheaper than a 2nd hand Naxo/Fritchi)

Weaknesses:
1. Requires serious and time consuming fucking around with gear each lap
2. Inability to switch tour/ski on the fly
3. Takes up space in pack at all times
4. Potentially weak attachment between trekker/demo plate
5. Must DIY

Conclusions:
The Duke/Baron are almost entirely inferior to the Preckers.
The Naxo are definitely easier and faster to work with for yo-yo skiing, side country, rolling terrain, and flat exits... and have a more ergo motion.
The Dynafits are still lighter and more ergo.

I'm going to stick with NX22s and Dynafit FT12s for now.

Thoughts:
The daywrecker bars are heavier duty than needed, but the pivot attachment to the demo plate should be as solid as possible to avoid one of the the daywreckers largest weaknesses: fucking miserable sidehilling (and I'm not just talking about the tendency to squirt out from the toe, which is eliminated here unless it blows up). Notice there is no slot for the back end to go into to reduce torque on the toe as on other AT bindings (except dynafits).

Leaving the heel pieces on the ski will not affect your skinning efficiency much if you are not lifting the skis up a lot as when breaking trail, sidestepping, or kickturning. So leaving them on is an OK idea to cut the gear fucking down a touch when lapping an established skin track (especially since taking P12 Demo heel pieces off and on is a huge pain in the ass compared to the toes). Additionally, moving the toe piece back is less of an advantage to skinning ergonomics if on an established skintrack (except on the kickturns). You can adjust your binding jig to allow more space between the toe and heel plates depending on your BSL to give you better ability to move the heel out of the way without removing it while still being able to move the toe. This also lets you move around where your boot sole center is to a greater degree (maybe you want -3 in the BC and +2 inbounds... this is achievable).

[khakis]

Was that ^^^ a full review of something of which you've only seen pictures on the internetz?

got my p12 demos and spare toe plates/tracks the other day ($15 from Look/Rossi...no spare heel tracks available). If I remember I'll weigh some parts tonight and post up. Now trying to decide whether to find some trekkers and butcher them or try something different (ie butcher some crampons and build a pivot with adjustable angle) What makes the naxos so much more ergonomic? The double pivot?

[Fuorilegge]

Yes, I do dig.

[summit]

Was that ^^^ a full review of something of which you've only seen pictures on the internetz?

Based on using:
P12 Demos for 4 seasons, P12s for 6... its my favorite evar... even have a jig
Skiing Alpine Trekkers 1 season ( I still have them around for friends)

I think I know exactly how it would be to use his good design.

Skiing Naxos 5 seasons
Skiing Dynafits 2 seasons
Skiing Dukes twice but constantly touring with Duke users

I think I know exactly how it will compare. I am tempted to try them but holding off for now.

What makes the naxos so much more ergonomic? The double pivot?

You got it!

Getting the pivot between the toe and the ball makes it more ergo. That's why past homebrew hinge systems have sucked. Having the pivot in front of the toe sucks.... too far and its almost unusable. It's why Scarpa moved the dynafit toe fittings back on their newer boots... makes them more ergo.

[khakis]

jus playin witcha summit

according to the scale at the post office:
Heel tracks (with plastic riser and screws) = 6.4 oz each
Toe tracks (also w/ riser and screws) = 3.7 oz each