Driving A Snow Cat?

[tuco]

Had a buddy demoing the Beast at Soli last week, what a bad ass machine. Fuckin thing was huge.

[Blizzard7763]

Do the same people that "operate" machines do the maintenance on them, or is that a separate crew?

[Bluebird]

Do the same people that "operate" machines do the maintenance on them, or is that a separate crew?

It probably depends. Bigger mountains have a separate maintenance dept. Smaller mountains might not. I know at Magic the operators also wrench. Of course we all do pretty much everything.

[vailcat]

At vail the operators are separate from the people who work on them and when I was there it was always a constant pissing match between op's and mechanics.

[Bluebird]

yup, op's break it and wrench's fix it. It is always a pissing match. It is amazing how different someone will treat a piece of equipment if they have to fix it themselves.

[Bunion 2020]

Our Cat Drivers do some maintenance such as rebuilds on tracks and replacing broken grousers and fluids. Our lift Maintenance does some work on them as time allows and we have one dedicated Cat mechanic and one vehicle mechanic that also will wrench as time allows.

Different areas/different routines.

FWIW our Cat Drivers are also our snowmaking crew.

[Tye 1on]

Personally had great luck and was careful, never broke a cat or brought it back needing a bunch of work.

On the other hand, forgot to raise the wings on the LMC compactor bar pulling into the shop once, pretty sure the gouges are still on the door frame. And, oh, right, straightened the blade out right into the galvanized compressed air line, that caused a bit of a ruckus...oops.

Good think mechanics like beer.

[jonesy]

Personally had great luck and was careful, never broke a cat or brought it back needing a bunch of work.

On the other hand, forgot to raise the wings on the LMC compactor bar pulling into the shop once, pretty sure the gouges are still on the door frame. And, oh, right, straightened the blade out right into the galvanized compressed air line, that caused a bit of a ruckus...oops.

Good thing mechanics like beer.

^That's how it works at all the outfits I worked at.

[billcallen]

Hey i'm grooming up at Heavenly this is my 4th season spend plenty of time in all the Prinoth machines, and a little stick time in a PB 600. I'm wondering if anybody has groomed or applyed to any of the following:

Aleyska
Big Sky
Jackson Hole
Snowbird
Bachelor
telluride

So yeah basically any of the best Ski mountains out there, but i'm wondering how these fleets work, what they run, shifts, how hard getting a job there is? any help would be great thanks.

Beast are pretty sweet definitely got some work to do on the cab, the new joystick is really sweet, and the stereo is definitely the best i've seen in a cat. With that big of a blade you can definitely do some work with a blade full of snow. The new Cat engine is also very sweet can do some real work though making it through a full shift of pushing is not possible and to second the fuel gauge and intake are worthless. All in all not a bad machine for the first time but definitely things to change pretty excited for version 2!

P.S. Vail hows your beast running? hope you guys are all wearing your seat belts

[midi510]

Some guys (or girls) are true operators, but most are just drivers. In any case, none of none of you would be able to groom a single square foot of terrain without mechanics. It's amazing how we'll have a big event like the US Grand Prix or West Coast Invitational or whatever and the cat crew routinely gets recognized, but never the mechanics. All cats, regardless of brand, break down. Not to mention all the damage from the "operators". I've been working on snowcats year round at Mammoth for the last 17 years. I also work on blowers, Pipe Dragons, Pipe Monsters, front mount and turret winches, etc.

During the '09-'10 Grand Prix (major snowboarding event) our PB300W that cuts the 22' pipe blew an engine. We had a new engine in and it was back service within 24 hours. That includes getting the machine off the mountain and back to the garage. At least we got some internal recognition for that one.

[Alaskan Rover]

First: Snocats TOTALLY RULE !!!!!!!

Second: They've become WAY simpler to operate. Steering? Piece of cake....just like driving an excavator. Two sticks...up = forward, middle= neutral, down= reverse. Let off on one stick while pushing up the other. Tighter, quicker turn?? Push down on one stick while pushing up on the other...you'll pivot in your own length. Let's see a car or an ATV do THAT !! Probably hasn't changed since the days of the Sherman tank.

I love the sound they make when they first start up.

They have this cool "over-geared' way of travel....driving one, you get this feeling that you can drivve right up the side of a building.

This next stuff goes back a while from when I skipped a couple semesters to work at a ski area:

Sometimes you can luck out and get an operator job...but from the operators I've known...it's pretty tight. Late March is a good time to start familiarizing yourself with the grooming crew and their hiring manager. They'll begin hiring sometimes as early as September...quite a bit earlier than most other ski area positions....as they'll have a shit load of pre-season prep to do. A couple seasons being groomer hose/tender before they'll even think about allowingh you in the cab even part-time. The things are expensive...they don't want fuck-ups. And like folks previously have said: Ops don't like to give up their CUSH jobs too easily.

Pluses: Late night work into early morn. Sleep til noon...ski/ride til 4:00 or whatever every day!

Pay????? Ahhh....this is a ski area, remember? The only people who get paid fairly well are the Owner...the General Manager...the Electrician....and the Maintenance Manager. Besides a few local lifties and cashiers, everyone else works there so they can ride or ski...THAT is their pay.

Did I mention that SnoCats TOTALLY RULE???

[lookpoi]

Great thread.Thanks to everyone for all the info.I'd like to ask a couple of questions.It seems the noise level inside the cat might be substantial.Do any operators wear headphones,either just for ear protection or to listen to music?(When I am on a subway I wear a pair of over-ear noise reduction headphones that make things much more enjoyable.)Do the ski areas have any rules/guidelines on this?It would seem a good way to deal with the monotony.Also,what is the upper limit on doing this work?Would someone in his 60's have a shot?

[EEC]

Man reading this thread makes me miss operating a cat. I only did it for one season at Kirkwood, but I can't see getting sick of it. I had to move back east for some family stuff and now my gf and i have good well paying jobs here but every fall find myself fighting the urge to drop everything and go back to operating a cat. I mean its still a job but it was by far the most fun job I ever had. I loved the graveyard shift too, being a rookie I had no choice but I would have taken over swing anyways. Always thought the whole driving to the mountain in the middle night was a cool feeling. You work your shift, enjoy the sunrise over the mountains, go ski, go home, sleep, repeat. For me my social life all revolved around skiing and work so that aspect never bothered. If anything it was a good excuse to not waste money on overpriced drinks and bad loud music at the bars. And sure the pay wasnt great, but now that I make more money I find myself spending a lot of it on ski vacations.

The noise never bothered me, but I could see it being an issue for some. I'd use the stereo in the cats for music, although I often got stuck in the cats with a broken stereo and that definitely did make things more monotonous and boring. Some guys used headphones but for me I never felt comfortable not being able to hear any weird noises from the cat or someone calling me on the cb.

[vailcat]

Piston bully cats are quiet as a car almost. Your prinoths are a bit louder I think.

[Shredhead]

Your prinoths are a bit louder I think.

The Beast is a little louder, but it's Lamborghini vs Chevy. Bradly on the 1A side of Ajax rocks out all the time and he's an artist on the slope.

[Steezus Christ]

Anyone still operating at Vail or Snowmass? I am thinking pretty heavily about applying at these places next season. Curious about a few things.

I did 5 seasons grooming in Utah a long time ago and I have never had a job that was remotely as fun as operating cats. I'm thinking pretty seriously about throwing out my career and just making a career out of snowcats. Getting tired of dreaming about running them, waking up and being all bummed out when I realize it was a dream.

Just in case anyone uses this timeless thread for any possible beta, I can add a little.

I worked for Deer Valley and Alta. They do things a bit different than what I hear about most Colorado resorts. They would rotate you on grave and swing shifts. DV would switch once a season and Alta would switch quite a few times with a few weeks of day shifts thrown in. Swings at DV were five 8 hour shifts, graves 4 twelve hour shifts. So just keep looking around if working swings at least part of the season is important to you from the get go.

You can get your foot in the door easily at a big resort without doing anything other than tracking down the mountain manager, being presentable, and telling them how interested you are in the job. Small resorts you just have less people leaving the job. People that like grooming, really fucking like grooming and rarely leave. A resort like Alta is super desirable, so all the new operators like me already had at least one year of experience because so many people will apply.

A lot of what g0mer said is exactly how I feel. I started at DV to get experience so I could go to a gnarly resort. It worked and Alta hired me the next season. I went back to DV after one season. Why? Because the job is so badass that it became more important than the actual skiing. Like g0mer said, new equipment and variety are really important.

Alta is great for skiing, but you groom the same runs every night depending on your shift. They just don't groom a lot of runs over there. They were also super conservative with really steep runs and winched them when I was there. At DV it was something new every night and we would free cat really steep shit and wouldn't grab a winch unless we made a mess. Free cats on super steep and soft runs is one of the biggest rushes I have ever felt as you slide like a toboggan when it gets out of control. My first year I would be sliding backwards sometimes and I thought I was going to die at times. It was super fun and it takes years and years to hone these skills.

Alta also ran a lot older equipment. DV gets rid of cats after 3 seasons. By the third season, cats start to feel worn out. When I was grooming, snowcat technology moved so fast that in 3 seasons, they were totally different animals and it was awesome being on the cutting edge.

So I use Alta as an example, still a great place, great people to work with, but if you become obsessive with grooming, you want to pick a resort that has a badass program with lots of variety and newer equipment. They are also easier to get hired on with. I also really dig the anal aspect of absolute perfection rather than just busting out half ass passes and leaving it be because quantity is more important than quality. Grooming is a form of art and it is not easy to get a good artist.

Sorry for the wall of text, but it's hard to come by info on snowcats, the BEST job on the mountain.

[Shredhead]

ASC is much chiller than VR and the free pass is actually worth something.

Why Snowmass?
Aspen Mt or Highlands is where you want to be.

[Steezus Christ]

ASC is much chiller than VR and the free pass is actually worth something.

Why Snowmass?
Aspen Mt or Highlands is where you want to be.

The reason I figured Snowmass was for variety of work. Even though the terrain doesn't look very intense, there's just a ton of trails to groom there. To me it doesn't look like there's as many runs at Aspen and Highlands that get groomed. Am I wrong about that? Don't you get passes to all ASC resorts as long as you work for them or do they limit you to whatever mountain you actually work at?

I do lean a lot more towards the ASC side of things, but the housing situation seems a lot more intense up there compared to living in Eagle or something like that, but I need to look more into that.

[g0mer]

It's fun. You should do it.

[TeleTahoe]

It's a good job with shitty hours.

[Tye 1on]

It's a good job with shitty hours.

sure do get to see some killer sunrises and sunsets!

and at that same time deal with the flattest light known to man. I remember turning all the lights on and putting on my sunglasses to try and pick up the pass that i was following...

[Steezus Christ]

I think the hours are the best hours you can work. What other job allows you to ski all day, sleep, and work full time? I would rather be getting faceshots than drinking in some bar during the evening, but I am kind of introverted.

g0mer, how do you like working for Vail? If you could transfer your years to another resort in Colorado, would you do it? I'm so split on Vail or Snowmass. How far away do you live to afford housing? Also, how much extra does Vail pay people to stay in a winch all winter long?

[g0mer]

g0mer, how do you like working for Vail? If you could transfer your years to another resort in Colorado, would you do it? I'm so split on Vail or Snowmass. How far away do you live to afford housing? Also, how much extra does Vail pay people to stay in a winch all winter long?

VR has treated me well over the years. I feel that they are generally honest and fair. I like the guys I work with and our crew has a positive atmosphere. Of course, different people have different experiences. We've all heard negative things about VR, but sometimes you have to consider the source.

I can't speak about SkiCo, but I've not heard anything negative. Last time I was at the Prinoth shop in GJ, I saw a bunch of new machines marked "Aspen" -- so their fleet might be a little newer than ours. I was jealous, not gonna lie.

I spoke with the mtn manager from another large CO resort a couple years ago, and he said If it snows too much, they don't groom and just send guys home without pay. Also, at the beginning of the season, if there's no snow, you don't work. Vail is pretty good about that -- we groom everything regardless of conditions. And if it's dry at the beginning of the season, they are good about getting guys hours, even if it means sweeping up.

If I were to go anywhere else in CO, it would probably be Telluride. The San Juans are way more badass than the central Rockies, and farther from the crowds.

Housing is the biggest issue, obviously. As with anywhere, the further you go, the better the deal. Eagle is a nice town. People commute from Leadville but that's a tough drive. Vail has employee housing too, if you can handle listening to someone else's shitty music all night long.

We don't get extra for winching, although it is a quicker path to move to a higher pay grade. The guys who winch do it because we get cooler projects and nobody bothers us. I love being in a winch, they are just so capable.

Hope this helps.

[Steezus Christ]

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate your input.

Do you guys not rotate a third of your fleet each year? Seems like the cats I see on your mountain always look pretty new as well. I like how you guys have a mix of Bullies and Prinoths. I always liked the Bullies except for the stupid ass yokes they put in them, but I see that most places have Bullies with sticks now.

Telluride looks cool, but yeah, the housing situation seems really difficult over there. I've done employee housing at Alta once and that was enough for me, especially when trying to sleep during abnormal hours.

Also, which mountain sends guys home on powder days? That is the best time to work. I wouldn't want to work there. You can PM me if you don't want to advertise that, although I think people on this forum would prefer main trails not be touched by a machine on those nights.