Proper snowboard stance..A tech note/bulletin.

[advres]

I mount on center + 10 and -10 degrees (duck)

how else are you going to land switch?

I learned to land and ride switch with a 18+ 9+. If you know how to ride, it isn't hard. I now ride slightly duck but back in the day I was all about Euro. Was thinking of setting up my bigger backcountry board that way this year to see how it is again.

And like it has been said before. Terje has always rode Euro and no one can make an argument that he isn't one of the best snowboarders alive and has been for a long, long time.

[wicked_sick]

I've always thought stance angle was a personal preference thing, thought I'm noticing more and more people riding duck. I ride forward. Last time at the hill a kid on the lift pointed out the fact both my bindings were pointed forward and asked me how i liked it... because he'd never heard of it before.

[doughboyshredder]

I started riding duck last year. I love it now, mainly for the added stability on landing drops.

[shmoesmith]

I really like the feel of duck for landing drops. That said, I ride +27,+9. I think a forward position is easier on the knees and weighing the body for sucking up crud and bumps and any other variable conditions you may encounter in big-mountain/all-mountain riding. I can't ride switch in a forward position as easily, but I ride a big mountain, directional board so riding switch is a rarity anyway.

[boredboiseboy]

Ive been riding 24/-3. I think your stance should a) complement your body position and B) let your knees flex in plane with your knees.
I think on all boards, even in pow, you should be centered over the sidecut more or less. If you have to set back your bindings an inch or two to get more float, IMO your board is too short.

[KnuckleDragger]

I think most flex patterns are designed around the sidecut(knuckledragger, you make boards, correct me if I'm wrong)...which is why the centering over the sidecut.

You do have an interesting point about the binding angles though. I just stole a pic off the net of a board and modified it to my purposes for what I wrote up. I didn't to imply anything about binding angles in my pictures. I think on older boards which are not torsionally stiff, it may be an issue. However, with modern building techniques (torsion box style, triaxle glass etc) I think most boards are quite torsionally stiff and the binding angle isn't going to affect the flex that much. I know that on 3 of my boards, even if I try and twist the board at the bindings it only twist maybe 1/2" to an inch...VERY torsionally stiff.

Maybe knuckledragger would care to chime in again?

I cant speak for every board out there but I design the flex based on where I anticipate the bindings to be (reference stance) which is centered on the sidecut. I actually also center the camber on the sidecut as well.

In the most theoretical sense, the small differences in location between the toes and heel due to foot angle could affect the feel of the board but there are so many other factors such as having high backs for heel side turns and not for toe side, and as shmoesmith pointed out, triaxial glass and CF torsional strands, that the reality of it is you probably wont notice the difference. Plus the body is amazing in its ability to quickly adapt and compensate.

The exception may be with alpine racers who use steep stance angles.

[hafilax]

I see what you're saying and the desire to ride a board with the stance set back indicates something like riding a twin in powder. That is why the Swallow, Fish and Khyber have been developed but not everyone can afford a quiver of boards. Maybe I should give one of those a whirl.

I ride a board akin to the Burton Custom which is a do-it-all kind of design but it deep snow you really do have to set back the stance. This allows you to get away with a much shorter board which is nice in tight trees and hop turns in steep terrain. It's kind of like a poor man's fish. For park and carving I agree, a centered stance is preferable but I would err on the side of setting the front foot back a bit if you ride +21 or more on the front foot and ride at a hill that gets any fresh snow. That's what's great about snowboards with inserts. You can try out a few stances and see what feels best.

I just did a search and found a thread on reverse sidecut reverse camber snowboards. There didn't seem to be much interest. I still wonder though...

[cliffhucker]

I have been riding for 7-8 yrs now and I always set my stance back like 4-6 '' I ride a Venture Storm 166 and I am 5'11'and weigh 150 lbs. the board is tapered slightly and is softer in the front, it directional and it is 280mm wide in the middle. It isn't too small for me. I think that skis are mounted set back a ways, and snowboards probably should be too. However I see the logic in a centered stance for carving but I think to ride pow and variable terrain a set back is nessesary.

[doughboyshredder]

The snowboard mags regularly do a "what the pros" ride piece. It is very rare that anyone besides a dedicated park rat rides a centered stance. The majority of riders are at least an inch back of center (1/2" more nose than tail (assuming a twin))

The main thing though, is it doesn't fucking matter. It is really what feels good.

And you guys saying your board is too short if you aren't riding centered, well you're just plain wrong.

I ride the 190 more than any of my other boards. From the factory (lib) the inserts are set an inch back. Same on the 180. I.E. Lib believes that in those sizes you should be at least an inch back of center.

There are many reasons for riding a back of center stance. There are also many different types of board designs, some that work better with a centered stance, but there aren't many.

Directional twins are a great example. The shape and sidecut is that of a twin, but the flex is directional with a stiffer tail and a softer nose. Boards like this ride really funky if you center the stance on the sidecut.

In short, if you are claiming to know the right way to stand on a snowboard you are wrong.

Stand on the thing however in the fuck you want, as long as it feels good, and you can get down the hill.

I change my stance as often as I change my mind, but currently I am riding with a 21-23 inch wide stance 0-4 inches back (depends on length of board and depth of snow) 15-20 on the front foot and -10 - -15 on the back foot.

[neck beard]

Setting bindings back for Powder is a crutch imo. It forces you to ride bone legged in the front and promotes washing out turns. I always ride centered.

All boards come with a centered setting. Check your stats or just set the bindings at the center of the pattern. I ride centered and adjust front and rear biniding +- equally to compensate for stance width.

Basically, I agree with Schmoe

Plus me.

I tried to explain this to my skiing buddies today (ad I cursed my boiard for noit beinga pow board "set teh bindings back" they said). I dont do it unless its a short term solution to teh wrong board in pow.

So often I see people recommending 160 FS boards and telling buyers to "just set your bindings way back for float in pow". How the fuck can you float with your weight at the back? It might lift the nose, but it aint floating, its plowing. You lose everything in terms of performance, you cant accelerate at will, you abandon so much planing surface... etc etc. Any one who surfs knows that too much weight on the tail is only good in very limited situations, like stalling. Drive and momentum comes from a balanced centred stance over teh seet spot on the board... with a slight bias to the tail, same in surfing, and that's why freeride boards have a set back (isn't it?). Centred over the side cut, set back relative to the tip and tail.

Good post schmoe, its about time snowboarders started discussing things like this (like skiers seem to).

[boredboiseboy]

I have been riding for 7-8 yrs now and I always set my stance back like 4-6 '' I ride a Venture Storm 166 and I am 5'11'and weigh 150 lbs. the board is tapered slightly and is softer in the front, it directional and it is 280mm wide in the middle. It isn't too small for me. I think that skis are mounted set back a ways, and snowboards probably should be too. However I see the logic in a centered stance for carving but I think to ride pow and variable terrain a set back is nessesary.

Your stance should be centered over the sidecut, not centered on the board. As several people who make snowboards have said, their flex, camber, sidecut ect are all designed to be ridden with you centered over the sidecut(which is usually where the refrence stance is).

[hafilax]

Plus me.

I tried to explain this to my skiing buddies today (ad I cursed my boiard for noit beinga pow board "set teh bindings back" they said). I dont do it unless its a short term solution to teh wrong board in pow.

So often I see people recommending 160 FS boards and telling buyers to "just set your bindings way back for float in pow". How the fuck can you float with your weight at the back? It might lift the nose, but it aint floating, its plowing. You lose everything in terms of performance, you cant accelerate at will, you abandon so much planing surface... etc etc. Any one who surfs knows that too much weight on the tail is only good in very limited situations, like stalling. Drive and momentum comes from a balanced centred stance over teh seet spot on the board... with a slight bias to the tail, same in surfing, and that's why freeride boards have a set back (isn't it?). Centred over the side cut, set back relative to the tip and tail.

Good post schmoe, its about time snowboarders started discussing things like this (like skiers seem to).

No offense but this argument about not setting back your stance in powder doesn't make sense to me. Ever look at a fish or a swallow tail? The tail is tiny with a huge nose. This is a board designed for powder and doesn't plow like you seem to think.

If the stance is in the right place you'll use both legs equally. If you're too far forward you'll get the back leg burn (at least in Whistler elephant snot). Let that tell you where to put your stance. I'm a terrible surfer but it seems to me that the same would apply there. You're pushing hard with your front foot because you're stalling, step forward. You're riding your back foot because you're pearling, step back.

The sidecut isn't very important in powder. I would actually say it's detrimental after reading the theory behind the reverse camber/sidecut skis like the spatula and the pontoon which are supposedly powder machines.

If you're carving groomers, riding switch a lot, or in the park you should be somewhere close to centered over the sidecut, plus or minus for feel.

[taz]

I don't ever move my stance back, although I have the option to move it another 2 inches. I just don't like how the board feel for me set right back. If i feel that the snow is going to be that deep I may need to set it right back then maybe the next size board would be better. I fucking hate have the leg burn after trying to keep the nose up, did it for too long on a 160. yeah having the body over the side cut makes sense in my mind, it's what help drives the board. This is my short board, if I have to set this beast back then I'm grabing the 182 or 2m. fuck having leg burn

[doughboyshredder]

taz, that's a nice Rad - Air. I love my tanker.

Funny thing is you are not centered on the sidecut.

From the factory the stance is set back 3 cm. So unless you have actually set the bindings forward on the insert packs you are riding a stance that is back of center.

The bigger tankers are set back 5 cm.

http://www.rad-air.com/index.php?opt...d=23&Itemid=45

to see the specs on the Tankers.

I have a 177 wide tanker. It is a great soft board with the biax glass they used.

[boredboiseboy]

No offense but this argument about not setting back your stance in powder doesn't make sense to me. Ever look at a fish or a swallow tail? The tail is tiny with a huge nose. This is a board designed for powder and doesn't plow like you seem to think.

.

Those boards are designed to be ridden that way, and have set back inserts, a special core profile, and sidecuts to match.

[rideit]

OK, here is my take.

Snowbaord stances are like masturbation:
There is no 'right or wrong', just what get's you off, and performs the best...for YOU.
As long as no-one else gets hurt.

[doughboyshredder]

Your stance should be centered over the sidecut, not centered on the board. As several people who make snowboards have said, their flex, camber, sidecut ect are all designed to be ridden with you centered over the sidecut(which is usually where the refrence stance is).

So, do you enjoy talking out of your ass?

http://www.venturesnowboards.com/ind...inc=storm.html

The storm is built with a 3.5cm setback on the binding inserts. I would guess that the builder of the board knows where the "sweet spot" is, and obviously it is not centered.

This thread really pisses me off. A bunch of disinformation.

[doughboyshredder]

So, I checked Prior's site and they do not build a single production board with the inserts centered on the sidecut. Not a single board.

Burton only centers the inserts on a few of their park specific boards and one or two of their pro models.

[boredboiseboy]

So, I checked Prior's site and they do not build a single production board with the inserts centered on the sidecut. Not a single board.

Burton only centers the inserts on a few of their park specific boards and one or two of their pro models.

thats centered
also centered
Infact, they all are.
I think your confusing "centered over sidecut" versus "stance is centered on the board(aka true twin)"
All snowboards have the refrence stance centered on the sidecut. The sidecut just might not be centered on the board.

[rideit]

Don't you weenies realize that I summed it all up in my post above?

Ride howver it feels 'right' for you.
And experiment.
That is one of the cool things about snowboards.

[doughboyshredder]

Spearhead Specs

Length (cm) 161 166 172 178
Effective Edge (cm) 109 113 119 124.5
Nose Length (cm) 35 36 36 36.5
Tail Length (cm) 17 17 17 17
Nose Width (cm) 30.1 30.5 31.0 30.9
Tail Width (cm) 28.6 29.0 29.5 29.4
Waist (cm) 25.5 26 26 26.5
Radius (m) 8 8.5 9 10
Taper (mm) 15 15 15 15
Insert Setbacks (cm) 2 2 2 2
Stance (in) 20"-25" 20"-25" 20"-25" 20"-25"
Suggested Rider
Weight Range (kg/lb) 55-85 65-95 75-100 80-105

Men's Freeride Specs

Length (cm) 162 162W 165 165W 168 168W 168XW 172 176
Effective Edge (cm) 123 123 124 124 127 127 127 131 135
Nose Length (cm) 21.5 21.5 23 23 23 23 23 23 23
Tail Length (cm) 17.5 17.5 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
Nose Width (cm) 29.1 30.1 29.3 30.1 29.3 30.3 31.3 30.4 30.5
Tail Width (cm) 28.7 29.7 28.9 29.7 28.9 29.9 30.9 30 30
Waist (cm) 25 26 25.1 26 25.2 26.1 27 26.3 26.3
Radius (m) 9 9 9.5 9.5 10 10 10 10.5 11
Taper (mm) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Insert Setbacks (cm) 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5
Stance (in) 19"-24" 19"-24" 19"-24" 19"-24" 19"-24" 19"-24" 19"-24" 20"-25" 20"-25"
Suggested Rider
Weight Range (kg/lb) 65-95/
145-210 65-95/
145-210 70-100/
155-220 70-100/
155-220 75-105/
165-230 75-105/
165-230 75-105/
165-230 80-110/
175-240+ 80-115/
175-250+

I don't get what makes you think that is centered?

The spearhead is 2 cm back of center. The MFR is 2.5 cm back of center.

This is back of center of the sidecut.
Notice on the mfr how the nose is also 5 cm longer than the tail.
I.E. the inserts are 2.5 cm back of sidecut center and 5 cm back of board center.

Now do you want to admit you don't know shit?
Fuck. How hard is it to read specs.

[doughboyshredder]

http://www.salomonsnowboard.com/us/p...-1-788742.html

The only boards salomon builds without a setback are their "perfect twin" free style models.

All other boards are built with between a 1 and 3 cm setback.


In summary, the vast majority (pretty much all) of boards built for freeriding have a stance setback built into them from the factory.

Therefore the statement that you are supposed to be centered on the sidecut of every board is patently false.

FWIW, my 172 mullet has a 1.5" setback on the bindings, but I usually move the bindings forward on the insert pack so that I am centered on the sidecut. I find that the tail is a bit less squirrely that way.

So RideIt is pretty much right on. Ride what feels good.

But, this is just pure stupidity:

All snowboards have the refrence stance centered on the sidecut.

[4matic]

http://www.salomonsnowboard.com/us/p...-1-788742.html

The only boards salomon builds without a setback are their "perfect twin" free style models.

All other boards are built with between a 1 and 3 cm setback.


In summary, the vast majority (pretty much all) of boards built for freeriding have a stance setback built into them from the factory.

Therefore the statement that you are supposed to be centered on the sidecut of every board is patently false.

FWIW, my 172 mullet has a 1.5" setback on the bindings, but I usually move the bindings forward on the insert pack so that I am centered on the sidecut. I find that the tail is a bit less squirrely that way.

So RideIt is pretty much right on. Ride what feels good.

But, this is just pure stupidity:

Centered on the sidecut does not mean centered on the board.

[neck beard]

No offense but this argument about not setting back your stance in powder doesn't make sense to me. Ever look at a fish or a swallow tail? The tail is tiny with a huge nose. This is a board designed for powder and doesn't plow like you seem to think.

I agree with what you are saying - these are pow boards. The ride is awesome, no plow

My point is setting back the stance on a nonpow board hoping to get some float. Thats not such a good permanent solution to riding pow.

Taz also said what I think.

[doughboyshredder]

Insert setback refers to the placement of the insert packs in relation to the center of the sidecut.

Most freeride oriented boards have a nose that is 5-10cm longer than the tail and a 2-5 cm setback of the insert packs.

It isn't hard to look at the specs on the different board companies sites. I just checked out Romes site. All of their twin boards have a centered stance. All of their freeride boards have a setback of 1-3cm.

Again, setback of inserts, refers to how far the center of the insert packs has been shifted to the rear of the center of the sidecut. This is irregardless of tip and tail length.

http://www.lib-tech.com/snowboards/mullet.html Check out the mullet. The nose is a lot longer than the tail, and it is tapered. This brings the center of the sidecut back quite a bit as it is. The inserts are centered 1.5" back of the center of the sidecut (narrowest part of the board). I, and many of my friends that ride mullets have all moved our stances forward on the insert pack so that we are centered on the sidecut. This is still way back from the center of the board (not the narrowest point, but the midpoint).

Anyway, I suggest that those of you claiming that you have to be centered on your sidecut, go check out Burton, Salomon, Lib, Rome, Prior,Venture etc.... look at their freeride boards and their explanation of insert setback and you will see that the vast majority of freeride boards are built with the inserts set back of center.

Venture even has a pow stick with 7.5cm of setback on the inserts:

while a whopping 75mm of stance offset eliminates heat in your back leg.