Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners

[Surly Bob]

Think I'm going to bake my Intuition fx race liners with a friend this weekend. I have Raptor 120s so I will definitely have to make a spreader. Might even heat up the shells in my heated boot bag to make them easier to open.

The idea of the boiling water in a turkey bag inside the liner is intriguing. However, seems to make more sense for any fit adjustments after the first baked fitting - since baking the liner all the way through is required to get it to conform to the shell.

[iamchappy]

Another tip for those who bake in the oven, I lay my liners on a towel and fold it over then place them in the oven. Years ago I had a pair of Power Wraps swell so big they touched the top of the oven and melted through the outer fabric and exposed the foam.

[mhenks05]

Just wanted to check in and say thanks to the OP. Molded my powerwraps tonight and they feel amazing. Had a friend pull my shells open (krypton pros) and used a touch of silicone spray and some duct tape to smooth things out. They fit like a dream. If you take your time and pay attention, its not nearly as daunting as it sounds.

[kokomas]

Same here, i used this thread again tonight and it worked out well. Warm shells make a big difference for me

[Team Live-Badass]

Just molded some intuitions into my new BD Factors, first time ever molding an intuition liner, and thanks to this thread they both came out looking pretty good. Baked in the oven @ 200 for about 11 minutes, Then had a friend hold my boots open (locked the boots into my skis to keep'em in place) Then popped off the skis and set my toe on a 2x4. Feel great, will see how they feel after skiing in them all day tomorrow.

[jmerrey]

Wow, I know I'm a little late to the game but I still wanted to drop by and show my appreciation. So much helpful info on this thread!

[swissiphic]

Had to do a home bake the other day with second hand liners. Intuition luxury liners high volume in Dynafit Mercury ski touring boots. No microwave oven for the recommended 'rice bag' method. Didn't wanna use oven, old, no consistent temperature. Borrowed girlfriend's Vidal Sassoon Answers hair drier. Tested temperature with oven/cooking thermometer. High heat mode took it to 220 degrees farenheit. Located recommended bake time on Intuition website...10 minutes. Removed custom orthotic from boots, liners left in shell. Carefully placed hair dryer into one boot, enough space around the unit to allow hot air to circulate around full circumference of unit during 'blow back' to allow thorough heating of upper tongue and calf area. Inserted oven thermometer in boot to monitor temperature consistency. Baked for 6 minutes. Repositioned hair dryer to ensure air blast projected more towards toes of liner. Baked for 4 more minutes. In the meantime, booted up with unbaked boot and constructed thick wool sock pseudo toe cap for baking foot housed in thin liner socks. When baking complete, CAREFULLY inserted custom orthotic, ensuring no gap at heel and correct centering in liner. Inserted foot, buckled up. Kicked boot backwards four times to set the heel pocket. Stood in neutral position flat on floor in both boots for about 10 minutes. Removed boots, cooked the other liner/boot with same method. Skied on em the next day. Some pressure laterally at baby toe bunion area both boots. Used large C clamp to clamp/punch the general bunion area of liners extending forward to little toe with no heat as experiment. Cranked the C clamp tight and left it for about 3 hours for three separate clamp/punches each liner. Skied 'em yesterday. Problem eliminated. If foam re expands in those locations, next attempt will be to heat the C clamp with hair dryer and clamp to permanently 'set' the foam. Day 5 now, so far no foam re expansion. No clue if this is an 'acceptable' method but worked good for me in an emergency situation.

[Stowelen]

Put some race HD liners in the convection oven at home for twenty minutes at 225 * F. Made toe caps out of some thick socks. Worked perfect in Lange RS 130. Best fit I've had in any boot, liner combo. Worked perfectly.

[thewon]

rs 130 ftw!

[sb]

Remolded some T3 liners the other day to fix a heel issue been having.

[RShea]

I have a pair of traditional 4 buckle boots that have the tongue and not the wrap liners. They have been molded 1 time and I may need to do some adjustments and use my footbeds to just tweak the fit. Would a heat gun or hair dryer be something to attempt for a second molding vs the full removal and 2nd baking?

[AlpiNord]

I have a pair of traditional 4 buckle boots that have the tongue and not the wrap liners. They have been molded 1 time and I may need to do some adjustments and use my footbeds to just tweak the fit. Would a heat gun or hair dryer be something to attempt for a second molding vs the full removal and 2nd baking?

Why not give it a shot?...or hot rice in a sock, boiling water in a collapsible water bottle, coupled with an insulating material to focus heat where you need it. I'm also wondering if a small, hot compress pack would be useful for liner tweaks.

[wooley12]

A hair dryer won't kill them and might work so I hear. A heat gun would definitely work and definitely has the power to kill. I'd go easy. But I've never done it.

[AlpiNord]

Depends on the hair dryer or heat gun and regulating.



Here is a blog post with some thoughts after I messed around with a couple heating and molding approaches, including one botched attempt.

[XXX-er]

At Intuition in Vancover I have watched them do spot adjustments with the heat gun. They heat the area of the liner to be punched (?) and rub it with a blunt tool , in their case they have a big S shaped metal bar with balls on the end which allows them to loop one end over the shoulder while standing and rub the liner as they hold it at waist level but the handle of a screw driver would probably also work, I noticed they only do this once in a problem spot .

[nickwm21]

Anyway, I know you can't get a fit without baking them, but when I did throw the Power Wrap liner in, and then my foot, I was unable to buckle the calf buckles. I could get the lower one on the first, loose, hiking latch, but the top one I was unable to latch at all.

Did you end up baking them? Get a good fit?

I am about to mold up two sets and have some similar issues:

1) Dalbello Lupo's with the stock ID liner. Boot fits well, 1 finger heal, demo'ed kryptons in this size and they fit great, going with Lupos for the ID liner and rubber soles. I can barely buckle the boot premolded. Liner looks like it has upper intuition and lower normal liner.... Weird.
2) Dynafit One with PW+. Boot is one size larger (as planned to avoid toe jam while skinning), trying a PW+ to fill up the space, add warmth, add stiffness, etc.... I cannot buckle the top of the boot with the liner in premolded.

Anyway - Just making sure I'm not crazy. I assume intuition liners puff up slightly and will compress to allow the boot to buckle when I mold.

[levy1]

Just wondering why to use this method instead of the rice method?

[levy1]

Great thread and great information! Thanks to all.

[NmbrdDays]

I just got a pair of pro tongue for Christmas. I molded them at my shop and didn't seem to have any fit problems then. First day out on them and it feels like there's a bump just below my calf. Can I safely assume that's the seam everyone is talking about? They fucking hurt. Should I just re heat them with a hairdryer?

[Andeh]

Any tips for baking Dreamliners (MV) for Vulcans? I picked up a pair of them in the group buy, at the recommendations of a couple people and Intuition. I could barely get them into the shell uncooked. I did 1 bake so far at a shop that wasn't well set up for it (long story), and they are still pretty snug - closing the top buckle is an epic struggle. Also the included Intuition footbeds folded up a bit at the back of the heels - I'm guessing I have narrow heels? The outside of the liner doesn't look like it molded much - maybe they were using a blower heater rather than proper oven? The heel cup & achilles area looks good though.

[Soups]

Any tips for baking Dreamliners (MV) for Vulcans? I picked up a pair of them in the group buy, at the recommendations of a couple people and Intuition. I could barely get them into the shell uncooked. I did 1 bake so far at a shop that wasn't well set up for it (long story), and they are still pretty snug - closing the top buckle is an epic struggle. Also the included Intuition footbeds folded up a bit at the back of the heels - I'm guessing I have narrow heels? The outside of the liner doesn't look like it molded much - maybe they were using a blower heater rather than proper oven? The heel cup & achilles area looks good though.

Probably need the low volume (LV) liner. They have directions on how to do a liner size fit on their website.

If they're 29s I'd buy them off you.

[Andeh]

Probably need the low volume (LV) liner. They have directions on how to do a liner size fit on their website.

If they're 29s I'd buy them off you.

Ugg. They specifically recommended the MV to me. Going by the liner size fit on the website too, I should be MV. They're 27s (going into a 27.5 shell) unfortunately.

The whole reason I got them was my ProTours (which fit like slippers) that were baked in my TLTs slide around a bit inside the Vulcans due to difference in shell volume, so I was wary of getting too small a volume.

[Soups]

Ugg. They specifically recommended the MV to me. Going by the liner size fit on the website too, I should be MV. They're 27s (going into a 27.5 shell) unfortunately.

The whole reason I got them was my ProTours (which fit like slippers) that were baked in my TLTs slide around a bit inside the Vulcans due to difference in shell volume, so I was wary of getting too small a volume.

IDK it was just a thought. If they recommended them to you not sure if you can contact them. All I know is no way my MV powerwraps fit into my Titans and I've never seen/tried any of the LV's or tried Vulcans.

Maybe someone else can chime in that has.

[AlpiNord]

Any tips for baking Dreamliners (MV) for Vulcans? I picked up a pair of them in the group buy, at the recommendations of a couple people and Intuition. I could barely get them into the shell uncooked. I did 1 bake so far at a shop that wasn't well set up for it (long story), and they are still pretty snug - closing the top buckle is an epic struggle. Also the included Intuition footbeds folded up a bit at the back of the heels - I'm guessing I have narrow heels? The outside of the liner doesn't look like it molded much - maybe they were using a blower heater rather than proper oven? The heel cup & achilles area looks good though.

If you want to recook and DIY, this process worked for me use a conventional oven:

Heating and Molding Intuition Ski Boot Liners

True to DIYer form, trial and error (sometimes lots of errors) lead to a better understanding of ‘do’s and don’ts’. Molding Intuition boot liners was not excepted. After reading and viewing Intuition, Scarpa, SVST and DIY techniques and ideas, we set out to experiment with new Intuition Pro Tour liners from Scarpa Maestrale AT boots to discover and illustrate the pitfalls of home oven backing vs heat gun hot air approaches. A ‘modified conventional oven boot liner baking’ approach appears to be a reliable and safe for good boot to foot fitting. Especially for ovens without enough height to stand the liners on their bottoms.
Conventional Oven Baking: The first attempt was to place a liner on it’s side, in a 240° non-convection oven on wood supports instead of directly on the oven racks. After 5 minutes the oven, which was on, scorched and wrinkled the side of the liner where it was in contact with the wood. Big mistake and bummer! Though unsightly, functionally the liner is fine. Time will tell how long this remains true. The wood conducted high heat too readily from the concentrated heat from the lower baking element. With this older oven, the temperature of the elements probably need to far exceed the target oven temperature to generate enough heat for the whole oven to reach and maintain the 240°. A reasonable assumption is that a convention oven would be superior to conventional ovens.
Hot Air Gun: The second test was to keep the liners in the shell and utilize a digital heat gun with high output and reliable temperature control for 12 minutes to assimilate an Intuition blower heater. Care was made to make sure the nozzle did not touch the interior of the liner while driving heat to the toe area. It is desirable option since it reduces steps, time and needed care and effort to place a floppy, hot liner into difficult boot shells. This straight forward approach achieved an OK fit, but the exterior of the boot remained cold and did not mold to the shell. For many, this technique may be more than acceptable for basic boot fitting. It also could be utilized for minor spot heating and tweaks. For instance, if the toes fit well, but there is a small issue around the instep, the toe area could be stuffed with a sock or other insulating area, to focus the heat only on the problem area. Additionally, a longer heat application may provide better results.
The liner on the left was baked in an oven, while the one on the right was heated with a heat gun. Note that the heat gun approach had no effect on the liner’s exterior.
Hot Rice: Similar to the heat gun approach with liners in boots, placing rice in an old sock and microwaving to achieve desired heat is an option (though not tested) that may be more desirable and convenient. Make sure to get the rice all the way into the toe area in the liner.
Hot Water: Boiling water in a collapsible water bottle can also provide lower temperature heat for minor adjustments, but probably is not the best option for fully heating the liner’s interior for proper molding.
Modified Conventional oven boot liner baking: As noted previously, it appears that a conventional oven’s heating element produces higher heat than which is desirable and practical to avoid liner damage and even heating inside and out. By adding mass to the equation, a more controllable and even temperature can be maintain for the time frame needed. Four, 6 x 6x 3/8″ ceramic tiles provided sufficient mass to keep the oven temperature 240° for 12 minutes in our tests after the oven was turned off to avoid high heat issues. (Rubber ‘pads’ where placed on the tiles to avoid direct contact with the liners as a precaution.) Though the 12 minutes was a little arbitrary of a time frame, it did appear to be sufficient for our molding purposes. Longer or shorter may be fine for others.
Basic Liner Molding Steps: While the liners were heated, 1/8″, adhesive backed boot fitting pads were cut to allow more room at known pressure points. This was coupled with toe caps and a thin sock.
If a foot bed was desired, it could also be placed on the foot before putting on the sock. In the interest of gram counting, the foot bed was omitted for this round to also see how well the Intuition bottoms support the foot on their own. Silicone spray was used to lubricated the shell interiors.
After the timer for the baking liner chimed, placing the sock with pad(s), foot bed and toe cap was placed in the liner, before being placed in the shell, while pulling upward on the liner multiple times. (See 1st image.)
After lightly buckling the boot, knocking the boot heel helps to set the heel into the liner. Place the toe on a board and stand on the boot in a neutral position for ten minutes.
Afterwards, remove the foot from the boot. Take out the pad, caps and foot bed (if used) from the sock. Again, if used, place the foot bed in the liner after it is placed in the shell. Test the fit of boot and tweak as needed.

[CaliBrit]

Has anyone used kind of a combo method, heating the liner up a bit in the oven so the outside gets warm too, putting it in the boot, this is obviously hard if you heat it too much, then putting the heated rice in?

Seems like it would have many of the advantages of the rice method while getting the outside of the liner to mold to the boot a bit? Thoughts?