mike tyson

[ill-advised strategy]

wow

[SkiVagabond]

Mike Tyson = most over rated boxer since Ali. Tyson was nothing but a Dempsey wannabe.

[ill-advised strategy]

what a freak show eh

[SkiVagabond]

what a freak show eh

That's a disparagment to freaks. Tyson is in his own category. I wonder if he still wants to eat Lennox Lewis's children.

[iceman]

Mike Tyson = most over rated boxer since Ali. Tyson was nothing but a Dempsey wannabe.

Not sticking up for Tyson, but to call Ali overrated? You are a fucking numbnuts. You know nothing.

[SkiVagabond]

Not sticking up for Tyson, but to call Ali overrated? You are a fucking numbnuts. You know nothing.

I used to train for professional boxing. I was trained by a guy born in 1908 and who has seen in person every great fight of the 20th century going back to Jack Dempsey days (the guy died just a couple years ago). My custom made boxing shoes were made by the same old (now dead) Mexican man who made the shoes for all the great boxing champions including Ali. So I know a little of what I'm talking about.

There are only a handful of boxing experts who place Ali at the top. Most place him at around 4. Almost everyone who knows anything about boxing places Joe Louis as number 1. Bert Randolph Sugar, the current leading boxing expert, the former editor of both Ring magazine and Boxing Illustrated, and probably the oldest current boxing authority has Ali at #3 on his list. George Foreman has him at #4. Joe Frazier doesn't have him as a top 3 of all time so he'd be at least #4 if not lower on his list. Even Ali himself said after doing an exhibition match with at the time the old bald retired Rocky Marciano that there was no way he would have ever been able to beat Rocky. Ali got the title as the greatest because that's what he called himself for years so it stuck as his title, not because that's what others concluded. Most people think he is the greatest now because most people (including most sports writers btw) don't know a single thing about boxing and just believe what they hear. Joe Louis would have licked Ali's ass, as would have others. Here is where I believe Ali belongs.

1. Joe Louis
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Gene Tunney
6. Muhammed Ali
7. Joe Frazier
8. George Foreman
..... After this in no particular order you got guys like Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Sam Langford, Lennox Lewis, ect ect ect.

[Tuckerman]

I used to train for professional boxing. I was trained by a guy born in 1908 and who has seen in person every great fight of the 20th century going back to Jack Dempsey days (the guy died just a couple years ago). My custom made boxing shoes were made by the same old (now dead) Mexican man who made the shoes for all the great boxing champions including Ali. So I know a little of what I'm talking about.

Sorry to cunt up this thread but SkiVagbond, how can a noob such as myself improve my speed and power? Or could you point me to a website with some bag drills. I'm a planning on my first MMA fight in the summer and I like stand up the most.

[SkiVagabond]

Sorry to cunt up this thread but SkiVagbond, how can a noob such as myself improve my speed and power? Or could you point me to a website with some bag drills. I'm a planning on my first MMA fight in the summer and I like stand up the most.

You can do both at the same time with the right technique. Unfortunately that kind of technique takes a long time to develope and is something that can only be taught in person. But I will try to convey to you the basics of proper technique so you at least have an understanding of it mentally which may perhaps gradually creep into how you do things. So lets begin.

Who do you think can run across the street faster you or Carl Lewis? Probably Carl Lewis. But what if Carl Lewis had to go down the street to the corner, cross it there, and then run back up the street to the point directly across from where he started? In this case you could probably casually walk across the street and still beat him (and have much more energy left over). So speed does not have to be about who is moving faster but rather who is traveling a shorter distance.

Punches from guys like Ali were incredibly quick because of their amazing hand speed and motor abilities. Punches from guys like Joe Louis and Jack Johnson were incredibly quick because their punches were traveling a much shorter distance. The difference is that the quick punches because of the shorter distances were just as quick yet required much much less energy and delivered much much more power. Joe Louis and Jack Johnson could knock a guy out in seconds with their amazing speed and power (Mike Tyson had these types of punches as well which he developed by studying Jack Dempsey intensly). Guys like Ali usually had to take the majority of the boxing match to knock a guy out due to either an accumulation of hundreds of punches like with Frazier or due to gassing the guy out like with Foreman. So one kind of punch is traveling very very fast, requiring much energy to do so, yet only weilding a little bit of power, and the other kind of punch is traveling slower yet is still as quick and is delivering much much more power with less effort. So how do you get the quick yet powerful and effortless punch? Again it's all technique. As I said it takes a long time of in person instruction but I will try to break it down for you. There is speed and power. I'll start with speed.

As I explained speed does not have to be what you mean it to be. Speed can actually mean slowness.... just slowness traveling a shorter distance then the fastness travels. So it's simple. Have your punches travel the shortest distance possible. A lot of fast punchers start with their hands by their head (or god forbid like in Ali's case by their freaking hips). They then cock their hands back and snap them forward and shoot them to theor opponents head. They travel quick as fuck. So quick you can barely even see the things like in Ali's case. But they are traveling a very long distance. They start out back, they pull back more then they go forward. Even if they don't pull back more and just go forward right away the fact that they are starting by their body means they have to travel very far. Now compare that to guys like Joe Louis and Jack Johnson. Ali had much better reflexes and motor skills then those two guys but those two guys blew Ali away in the technique department. Louis and Johnson would ALWAYS have their hands up high and out. They were away from their bodies. Their hands were closer to their oppenents then they were to themselves. They had a very short distance to cover and they keep those hands at a very short distance because of their punching technique. Which brings me to power.

Ali would throw arm punches. They were quick snappy punches originating from the arm, shoulder and upper back which is one reason why they were so quick because there wasn't that much behind them (not saying that it wouldn't hurt like hell but compared to REAL punchers it was like a feather). Louis and Johnson would throw punches with their whole entire body weight behind them. It was more of a sharp powerful push with the legs then a punch with the arm. That's why they could keep their hands way out there in front of them and send these quick powerful short distance punches with no recoil or anything because they basically were just PUSHING their hands forward with their feet/legs/hips. NO arm movement was neccassary or even wanted because it was all coming and orginating from downstairs. So this way they were able instantaneously push their hand just a few inches directly forward and end up with a very quick punch (because it only had to travel a few inches instead of a few feet) and a very powerful punch (because it had 200lbs of body weight behind it instead of 20lbs of arm weight).

Anyways I could go into much much greater detail for a long time but that is a generally jist of things. So you basically just make your punches travel shorter then the other guy and at the same time put more weight behind it but unfortunately as I said the technique required to do this takes a very long frustrating time.

Edit....... There are a few copies in Adobe format of Jack Dempsey's Championship Boxing floating around the internet. I used to have a copy but I deleted it. It is hard to find (I think I found mine on Kazaa) but is the best boxing book ever written and will help you. Don't bother trying to buy a physical copy. It hasn't been published in half a century and is very rare so it sells for like $900.

[powder11]

I used to train for professional boxing. I was trained by a guy born in 1908 and who has seen in person every great fight of the 20th century going back to Jack Dempsey days (the guy died just a couple years ago). My custom made boxing shoes were made by the same old (now dead) Mexican man who made the shoes for all the great boxing champions including Ali. So I know a little of what I'm talking about.

Tyson belongs in a zoo.

[rideit]

" I want to EAT your children...Praise be to ALLAH!!!"

[Mr. LebowSki]

Tyson needs to do everyone a favor and shoot himself

[iceman]

Even Ali himself said after doing an exhibition match with at the time the old bald retired Rocky Marciano that there was no way he would have ever been able to beat Rocky.

I'll argue with you all day and night if you can find that quote. Ali would have killed Rocky and I spent years of my life in Brockton*, I know the Petronellis and I know Marvin Hagler (a little). Joe Frazier and Foreman and Holmes and Lennox Lewis all would've killed Marciano. Back up the one statement I quoted and we can talk, otherwise fuck off.

*edit, well it seemed like years. My Dad worked at the Brockton VA hospital for 30 years, so I was in Brockton a lot. And that's a psychiatric hospital, so we met all the crazies. Shit, I probably met you.

[RootSkier]

Fuck, that video is fucking classic. Tyson...how can you not love a psycho?

[SkiVagabond]

I'll argue with you all day and night if you can find that quote. Ali would have killed Rocky and I spent years of my life in Brockton*, I know the Petronellis and I know Marvin Hagler (a little). Joe Frazier and Foreman and Holmes and Lennox Lewis all would've killed Marciano. Back up the one statement I quoted and we can talk, otherwise fuck off.

You ever box buddy? I doubt it if you claim those guys could have taken on Rocky. And I don't care where you've lived. I've lived in Chicago before but that doesn't make me an expert on Micheal Jordan. I can't find that quote at the moment. I'll look for it. The best I can do right now is a page summarizing their encounter.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/A...//alirock.html

[iceman]

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/A...//alirock.html

Oh, Jesus, that thing.

Get fucking serious, it was a joke.

You knew that, right?

I have mad respect repect for Rocky, but he fought in a weak era. His six big fights were against Joe Louis (when Louis was about 50) Ezzard Charles (twice), Archie Moore (twice) and Jersey Joe Walcott. Decent wins all, but all of those guys were old and over the hill when the Rock fought them. Rocky even avoided Floyd Patterson, a guy he was set up to beat, style-wise. And Rocky vs. Sonny Liston?!? That would've been fun. For Sonny.

Back to the original point: Ali was in fact the greatest.

Go back and watch the fights again, especially when Liston put lemon juice on his gloves in the second fight, and Clay was blinded, and he still fought through it and KO'ed him. There's really no question. Frazier was the second-best heavyweight in the modern era, Ali first.

It's all opinion, though, so carry on.

[addict]

Sorry to cunt up this thread but SkiVagbond, how can a noob such as myself improve my speed and power? Or could you point me to a website with some bag drills. I'm a planning on my first MMA fight in the summer and I like stand up the most.

I don't know what level you're at, but once again, hard to explain through tha interwebzzz: make sure you strike with your elbow leading the punch, like a piston, don't think of your hands punching. You see a lot of people bare knuckle hitting bags and wondering why they're losing skin on or between the knuckles. If your strike doesn't hit the target in a linear motion you're wasting energy and force. Eg. a hook can still strike in a very linear motion contrary to what a lot of people think of as a hook.

Not sure if that makes any sense at all on a computer screen, I won't even try to describe how your feet and body should move to assist your hit. Also, it's a lot easier to KO someone with 2 or more hits, hard to do with a single haymaker. The 1st hit will displace the fluid out from between the brain and skull, the 2nd will bounce the brain against the skull and force the brain to black out. Have fun, enjoy the adrenaline.

A rookie's 0.02

[cranked]

My custom made boxing shoes were made by the same old (now dead) Mexican man who made the shoes for all the great boxing champions including Ali. So I know a little of what I'm talking about.

My soccer cleats were made my the same people who made Ronaldo's boots, and my tennis shoes are made by the same guys that made Agassi's shoes.

[Rasputin]

Talk whatever shit about Tyson that you want (and most of it will be justified), but for a number of years, he beat the shit out of everyone he faced, and didn't duck any fights. He had precious little in the way of boxing skills, but earned his nickname Iron Mike by his ability to knock people on the ground regardless of their skills, and he had an iron jaw too.

The first time I saw him fight was in the AAU championships when he was 15. He had won every bout on the way by knockout (in three round fights), and it was frightening how he manhandled his opponent, it went less than a minute I think. I told my brother after watching it, that he would become the heavyweight champion someday. Does that make ME an expert? No.

Is Mike animalistic? Yes. Was he a great "boxer"? No. Was he a dominant champion? Yes. Did he display any outstanding value as a human being beside his brutality? No. Would I bet against him in his prime against anyone. NO.

I don't care about experts, I've seen them make fools of themselves in their arrogant overestimates of their knoweledge often enough (especially young, "I boxed a while and never made it" experts), and the older the codger, the higher their praises of the guys who were on top when they were much younger (when their memory was most impressed and their brain cells least damaged). The whole arguement of who's the greatest is moot, because it is idle speculation of something that cannot be proven, mostly by those who never achieved that level themselves. The ones that did achieve that level have more than their share of brain damage.

[Roo]

Would I bet against him in his prime against anyone. NO.

I have never seen any boxer who could have lived with a 20 year old Mike Tyson.

[philippeR]

I have never seen any boxer who could have lived with a 20 year old Mike Tyson.

O rly ? Who makes your shoes ?

[Roo]

Puma.

Nobody could live with Tyson. He never flushes the bog, eats other people's food out of the fridge, is always late with the rent, rolls in drunk at 5am and pisses in the shoe drawer and then rapes the home help and eats their children/ears. Praise be to Allah.

[Tuckerman]

My soccer cleats were made my the same people who made Ronaldo's boots, and my tennis shoes are made by the same guys that made Agassi's shoes.

My running shoes were made by 9 yo girls in the Philippines. They are sic.

[Roo]

My custom made boxing shoes were made by the same old (now dead) Mexican man who made the shoes for all the great boxing champions including Ali. So I know a little of what I'm talking about.

I can't believe you knew Enrique Verlast. He is a hero of mine.

[yodaottis]

Actually the best box in history.
Had he half a brain and better management his life story could have been very different.

I don't respect him as a person because of the choices he's made in life, but if you watch him in his prime, a commercial airliner *might* have had a chance @ taking him down.

[SkiVagabond]

I have never seen any boxer who could have lived with a 20 year old Mike Tyson.

Teddy Atlas lived with him..... Of course though when Tyson raped his sister that was the end of that.

Iceman I'm not responding to you anymore because you have obviously never been deep in the boxing community before and are able to knowledgably comment on it.