Results 1 to 25 of 94
-
08-26-2006, 10:28 AM #1
ABS Avy Pack-Who's buying one this season?
On our drive to the Tetons last night, we discussed the futility and fatality of beacon searches and the likelyhood of finding your partner dead. We had both been eyeing these for a few years, but haven't plunked down the $700+ for one yet.
Fuck that. I'm buying one this year for sure. Yeah, it's heavier, but with the 98% survival rate, you CAN'T NOT consider using one. It seems retarded to spend nearly $400 on a new beacon when it will likely only help find your carcass.
Come November, I will be skiing with the ABS pack on most of my tours. $750 is cheap life insurance.
ABS pack info.
Anyone have one yet?
-
08-26-2006, 10:37 AM #2
$910 for the 30L Escape pack... don't forget you have to buy the $225 cannister trigger system to make them work.
$1135 for a 8+lbs 30L pack that probably decreases your chances of injury/burial if you are caught in a slide and if you are able to pull the twin triggers.
I question their 98% statistic.Last edited by Summit; 08-26-2006 at 10:40 AM.
Originally Posted by blurred
-
08-26-2006, 10:41 AM #3Originally Posted by Summit
Why do you question the statistics? They are certainly better than with just a beacon and a bunch of folks who don't practice enough, myself included.
I waste so much money on eating out, and other crap, that this doesn't seem like much money. And it is well spent.Last edited by Trackhead; 08-26-2006 at 10:48 AM.
-
08-26-2006, 10:48 AM #4
Whatever happened to MtnLion's potential prodeal (or used deal) on the ABS packs?
The 98% is from reasonably good studies, though there is a degree of retrospective bias in the way the data was gathered.
I'm actually thinking more along the lines of getting an AvaLung pack - more for the convenience, since I already have an AvaLung.
-
08-26-2006, 10:48 AM #5
Already have one.
Used last season and couln´t be much happier.
There is room few minor improvement but otherwise: Grade A-
And that summit guy has a unmatched ability to whine and twist all the facts to fit his own view of the world..
Trackhead,check out some old threads on the subject.
There was (still is?) some sale´s in www.sport-conrad.de in the sonderangebote section. At some point in the spring they even had the larger (45?L) version there on reduced price. No need to pay 1100$ for anything unless you are a complete git.
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
-
08-26-2006, 10:52 AM #6
I question their statistics. 98% of what? All avalanches where the wearer has the pack?
Anyone have any real data on what the survival rate is for all avalanche incidents? Lots of people get out, are partially buried, not even carried... I bet it is actually pretty high... (and it is hard to say... so many small incidents without consequences are not reported, but I bet they were for the ABS study)
The real statistic is: what is the overall IMPROVEMENT in survival rate vs no ABS?
I know many who would benefit from spending money on an avi class instead.
Additionally, the pack is quite heavy as well as expensive, and the ones I have seen haven't fit me or my gear well. I ski for fun. I attempt to minimize risk. If I have to spend all my money to buy a poorly fitting heavy pack such that it makes it a lot less fun to hike up to my turns, am I winning? It is all a risk/benefit analysis. All BC skiing is. Maybe the ABS pack is a GREAT idea, maybe it isn't the best choice. Maybe it varies by person. I'm not sure. I'm not set in my mind yet.
If weight and cost are no issue, I'll design you an armored suit with a SCUBA tank and an escape rocket + parachute.Originally Posted by blurred
-
08-26-2006, 10:54 AM #7
The Brugger and Falk paper is here.
Although it is on the ABS pack systems website, the company did not commission the report and Brugger and Falk received no payment from them.
-
08-26-2006, 10:55 AM #8Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate
Anyone wanna buy an Avalung?
And with the weight argument, I could care less. I don't carry water anymore, now that I have a Jetboil that weighs less than a quart of water.
Yeah, tech talk.
-
08-26-2006, 10:57 AM #9Originally Posted by Summit
Sign me up! Does the rocket suit also work to propel me, so I don't need to hike?
I think you're on to something.
-
08-26-2006, 10:58 AM #10
If nothing else................
-
08-26-2006, 11:12 AM #11Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Posts
- 1,639
I carry the beacon/probe/shovel/avalung combo. I find that you do need to practice not so much with the beacon (barryvoxes are easy to use) but differentiating between a person/burried pack, and avy debris with yoru probe can be hard to learn. As far as the avalung's ease of use, I have heard from several people that they are easy to get into your mouth and hold there, even when tumbling down a mountain . That said, I have been burried (very shallow burial) before, and the snow tries and rip everything it possibly can off of you. That is why I go withg the avalung II because it is smaller and harder for the snow to catch ahold of when tumbling...I've had backpacks come off before during a hard tumble, so I dont trust the avalung backpack setup.
-
08-26-2006, 11:41 AM #12Registered User
- Join Date
- Nov 2003
- Location
- Colorado
- Posts
- 2,075
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Sorry, couldn't resist....
Any way, I would never say using an Avalung or an ABS pack is a waste of time. But, you should remember that these items of equipment do not guarantee that you will survive and avalanche. The truth is that you can still die of blunt trauma from smacking into a tree or boulder, while you have an Avalung or ABS pack on. Approximately 20-25% (depending upon who's data you look at) of folks die from blunt trauma during an avalanche. So, don't fall into thinking that because you have your trenaceiver, Avalaung and ABS pack, that you can push the limits and ski what ever you want. I often see people getting caught up in what gear they have. When they really should get more into what avalanche skills they have (terrain recognition, snow stablity evaluations, snow and weather observation skills, smart travel skills, etc...). I think the main thing to remember is that you don't want to get caught in an avalanche in the first place.
Cheers,
Halsted"True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"
-
08-26-2006, 12:10 PM #13
I like setting them off in trams. The best way not to get caught is to use your head, not some piece of gear.
-
08-26-2006, 12:13 PM #14
You don't use this not to get caught, retard, it's to aid you if you do.
edgDo you realize that you've just posted an admission of ignorance so breathtaking that it disqualifies you from commenting on any political or economic threads from here on out?
-
08-26-2006, 12:16 PM #15
Sorry to hear you're sooooo experienced in getting caught.
-
08-26-2006, 12:17 PM #16
Er, thanks?
edgDo you realize that you've just posted an admission of ignorance so breathtaking that it disqualifies you from commenting on any political or economic threads from here on out?
-
08-26-2006, 12:18 PM #17
I ski with an older ABS backpack and it gives me a pretty good sense of security. There are some design flaws but I am pretty sure they have been addressed with the newer ones. The extra weight is a very small sacrifice to make. After a few days you will not even notice it anymore.
-
08-26-2006, 12:39 PM #18
Gave it some thought. Givin' it some more.
-
08-26-2006, 12:50 PM #19Originally Posted by powslut`•.¸¸.•´><((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.? ??´¯`•...¸><((((º>
"Having been Baptized by uller his frosty air now burns my soul with confirmation. I am once again pure." - frozenwater
"once i let go of my material desires many opportunities for playing with the planet emerge. emerge - to come into being through evolution. ok back to work - i gotta pack." - Slaag Master
"As for Flock of Seagulls, everytime that song comes up on my ipod, I turn it up- way up." - goldenboy
-
08-26-2006, 12:54 PM #20Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Posts
- 1,639
I carry all that stuff, not so I can ride anywhere I please, but incase something should happen again. My last incident has made me alot more cautious and made me go and get training. That said, there is an old saying that goes something along the lines of ' The snow doesnt care if you are an expert or not'
-
08-26-2006, 01:04 PM #21Originally Posted by Pow4Brains
-
08-26-2006, 01:30 PM #22
I bought one about a year and a half ago. I really liked their survival rate versus beacon search. I bought an avalung before that. I didn't end up using the avalung much. Since its got to go on top of your clothing I found it annoying to have to take it on and off every time I wanted to add or subtract clothes. Also it doesn't help reduce trauma injuries at all. OTOH I seem to recall reading the people with the ABS packs tended to stay on top and not get carried as far, reducing trauma injuries.
The ABS pack is a little heavier and less convenient, but I don't really mind it at all. Most of my bc skiing is day trips or yurts so you're not carrying much anyway, and once its on I don't notice it.
If you go out bc skiing quite a lot in the Rockies seems like a non-trivial chance that something will happen sooner or later, even if you're reasonably careful. Also I like to do stuff like skinning Bridger by myself before and after season, if you're solo the ABS is all you've got anyway.
-
08-26-2006, 01:31 PM #23User
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Location
- Ogden
- Posts
- 9,163
Just thinking out loud here, would the pack in anyway increase the likelyhood of trauma since you would be surfing on top of the snow? I know that victims are usually found in the toe of debis anyway so maybe rate and distance traveled remains the same?
-
08-26-2006, 02:37 PM #24
I know many who would benefit from spending money on an avi class instead.
And we have a winner......
Too many folks are depending on gadgets. Avoidence, good judgement and decision making is the best gadget.
You want to pop for an ABS pack? Go for it.
Whether or not you make a go decision should have exactly zero to do with what gear you are carrying.
-
08-26-2006, 02:43 PM #25
Yeah, TH, you silly wanker - take Avy I! Relying on techno-trickery - what a fucking shambles
edgDo you realize that you've just posted an admission of ignorance so breathtaking that it disqualifies you from commenting on any political or economic threads from here on out?
Bookmarks