Lib Tech Pow NAS 181cm vs 191cm?

**dFiddler** · 12-21-2012, 04:58 PM

Demoed this years 181cm the past couple of days and have found my dream ski. They fucking rock. My only dilemma is that they don't have 191 to demo and I'm wondering which one to buy. Has anyone out there skied both and can give any comparisons? This will be my daily driver in Jackson, 100+ days a season. Aggressive skier, 5'10" 210 pounds. I'm curious if at that length and an extra 2mm all around changes it's versatility and the feel of the ski. The 181cm didn't necessarily ski short IMHO. Thanks for the help.

**CaliBrit** · 12-21-2012, 05:32 PM

Man up. 191.

**SupreChicken** · 12-21-2012, 07:17 PM

If you ever feel like hate fucking the mountain, I've never been on a more Agro ski than the 191. I haven't skied the on3p wren. The 191 billy goat is similar, but not as chargy. 191 has way better float than the 81. Thatll come in handy at jackson. I'm 165 lbs. Agree with the above comment. Man up.

**vanisle** · 12-21-2012, 08:14 PM

I am much smaller than you and have been on both. Get the 191, you will not be disappointed. Such a kick ass do it all ski...

**dFiddler** · 12-22-2012, 01:48 AM

While I'm at it, might as well ask another question. Has this ski changed at all since it came out in the 10/11 season? Info on this ski is pretty limited.

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 12-22-2012, 11:00 AM

Yeah, grow some balls ya fuckin pussy. Get them to make you a 210.

dFiddler. Email them...they are quick to respond. Info is tough to find but I believe the Pows have been same since the 2010-11 season. Great deals floating around on the Rasta 181's.

But at 210 I'd certainly say get the 191's.

**karma** · 12-22-2012, 11:10 AM

5' 3" 150# I've skied them both and rock the 191 as a daily driver. At 210 I dont think there is even a question as to which to get.

**dFiddler** · 12-22-2012, 05:18 PM

I would normally go with the 191, just having doubts with it weighing in at a ridiculous 11.2 pounds. I do a lot of hiking, sidestepping and slogging. Beside calling me a pussy, can anyone give me actually reasons to go with the 191 besides extra float. It has plenty of stability and no speed limit at 181.

**SupreChicken** · 12-22-2012, 09:14 PM

Heh. It's not how you feel, it's how you look. And you would look WAY better on 191s. 181s would leave you looking sub-optimal.

**t.odd** · 12-23-2012, 08:30 PM

I'm 5'10" 165ish and run the 191's....I feel like they ski shorter than they are, which is great in the trees, and then they lay trenches on the groomers as required

**Flake** · 12-27-2012, 06:37 PM

Gotta get the 191's. I can't say enough good things about mine. They are awesome.

**Schemeboat** · 12-27-2012, 06:46 PM

191 - I'm on them everyday.

**Schemeboat** · 12-27-2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by t.odd

I'm 5'10" 165ish and run the 191's....I feel like they ski shorter than they are, which is great in the trees, and then they lay trenches on the groomers as required

hello t.odd

**stuckathuntermtn** · 12-27-2012, 10:40 PM

If the weight is that big a concern, maybe you're looking at the wrong ski.
At your height and weight and (probable) ability and on the mountain you're skiing on at the frequency you're skiing, you should be on at least a 190, but if weight is a real concern, try a different ski.
Lots to choose from.

**bfly** · 03-27-2013, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by SupreChicken

If you ever feel like hate fucking the mountain, I've never been on a more Agro ski than the 191. I haven't skied the on3p wren. The 191 billy goat is similar, but not as chargy. 191 has way better float than the 81. Thatll come in handy at jackson. I'm 165 lbs. Agree with the above comment. Man up.

SupreChicken, care to elaborate some more on the differences between the Pows and the Billy Goats? The Pows have been my favorite ski since they came out. I have found only two situations where they suffer - tight trees and slower speeds in deep variable snow. The 191 Pows like to charge, charge or charge. Slow them down and they get grumpy. The Billy Goats have intrigued me as a possible replacement for the Pows especially in the 191s. I want to keep the serial killer feel of the Pows in the open terrain but want something that turns quicker in the trees and keeps the tips from diving when not going mach stupid. The other ski that seems like it could be a replacement for the Pow is the '14 DPS Lotus 120 Spoons.

Thoughts?

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 03-27-2013, 12:10 PM

I cannot add here, but I'm lost on how you can pull a DPS 120 out of this? It's extremely deep snow specific pin tail (really pin tailed). And you're on likely the most opposite end of the spectrum if only waist width is considered (huge side cut with wide tip and wide tail).

From only interwebz experience in the above skis (not all that many people have skied Libs) I'd say you are still on a powerful ski with the BG's. You may also want to look at the new Rossi Squads or the Praxis GPO or Moment Governor (no tail rocker in latter) or skis like them (directional, non twinned like your Pows).

I suggest these as they'll likely retain what you like most about your Pows (charge at speed) but they aren't stiff as hell planks from tip to tail like your Pows which I think is what really limits those skis as slower speeds.

**bfly** · 03-27-2013, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Sizzler

I cannot add here, but I'm lost on how you can pull a DPS 120 out of this? It's extremely deep snow specific pin tail (really pin tailed). And you're on likely the most opposite end of the spectrum if only waist width is considered (huge side cut with wide tip and wide tail).

From only interwebz experience in the above skis (not all that many people have skied Libs) I'd say you are still on a powerful ski with the BG's. You may also want to look at the new Rossi Squads or the Praxis GPO or Moment Governor (no tail rocker in latter) or skis like them (directional, non twinned like your Pows).

I suggest these as they'll likely retain what you like most about your Pows (charge at speed) but they aren't stiff as hell planks from tip to tail like your Pows which I think is what really limits those skis as slower speeds.

Yea, I could totally be smoking crack when thinking about the Lotus spoons. I was basing it from this review:
http://www.earlyups.com/videos/gear-...-initial-test/

I'm not sure I want a softer ski. I just want something that will keep the tips up at lower speeds. A ski with a narrower tail and a little more rocker up front might be all I need to meet that criteria. From what I've read the BG 191 seems to fit that bill.

**Shorty_J** · 03-27-2013, 10:46 PM

About 10cm.

What was the question again?

**SupreChicken** · 03-27-2013, 11:29 PM

So, having skied both, I don't think it's preposterous to consider the new 120 spoon a possible replacement for the pow. The L120 spoon is an incredible ski that will charge almost as hard as the 191 pow, but doesn't HAVE to charge like that.

To bfly:
BG vs Pow. If you rail the BG tips, they can make almost any shape turn. If you ride backseat, they will completely dominate you. I think the 191 BG skis a little short. The 191 pow rocker is so subtle and gradual that I don't actually think they ski short. The pow is more of a rager than the billy goat, but again, I think the strength of the BG here is increased versatility with equal chargeability. It's not an obligate charger...but it's pretty close. Most definitely more maneuverable in the trees. Two mags up here (auvgeek and xavierd) ride the BG as their main tree ski.

Pow - hate fuck the mountain because that's the only thing you know how to do.

BG - hate fuck the mountain if that's how you're feeling that day. Or you can get a little foreplay in. You have that flexibility.

Spoon - There is nothing hateful about spoon fucking the mountain. That's just sexy.

I'll drop some spoon vid in the spoon review thread soon.

**bfly** · 03-28-2013, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Pow - hate fuck the mountain because that's the only thing you know how to do.

BG - hate fuck the mountain if that's how you're feeling that day. Or you can get a little foreplay in. You have that flexibility.

Spoon - There is nothing hateful about spoon fucking the mountain. That's just sexy.

So, of the two, which do you think would make a better replacement for the Pows? When I read the review on the L120 spoons I thought that was the one. But without skiing it I am just guessing. I want an axe murderer everywhere who can pretend to be sane in the trees or when you slow them down.

I just got a screaming deal on a pair of Lotus 138s Hybrids so now I have no idea what my plans are. I have a quiver of three pairs of skis. I feel so decadent.

**SupreChicken** · 03-28-2013, 08:17 AM

I have 192 lotus R1s. They are STUPID fun in trees. They make high speed in the trees seem more sane.

If you love your 138 ride, the L120 is not a bad estimation of the offspring of a pow raping a 138.

You really couldn't go wrong with either...

However, you said:

"I want an axe murderer everywhere who can pretend to be sane in the trees or when you slow them down."

I think both skis fit that description.

Billy Goat is a little more of an "axe murderer" because it's so much heavier. Given the weight of the pow, I think you'd probably feel more at home on it.

Worth nothing that neither one will handle firm snow quite as well as the pow. But if you own some Lotus, I suspect you're always hunting for deep snow.

Does this mean you're selling some used pows cheap?

**t.odd** · 03-28-2013, 08:57 AM

I must be a freak, because I think the 191 pow's ski plenty short for what they are, and I love them in the trees, tight ones too...but everyone has their own opinion and style!

**bfly** · 03-28-2013, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Does this mean you're selling some used pows cheap?

I can't see myself selling them any time soon. They perform so well in almost every situation. Hell, I still have my Lib Tech Freeride Parillos with that crazy camber under foot.

I haven't mounted up the L138s yet but from what I've read they might be the ski to compliment the Pows. Quick in the trees and better float at lower speeds. My quiver might be a little one dimensional - POWDER!!!

**bfly** · 03-28-2013, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by t.odd

I must be a freak, because I think the 191 pow's ski plenty short for what they are, and I love them in the trees, tight ones too...but everyone has their own opinion and style!

I've been skiing them everywhere as my daily driver for the last three seasons. I just imagine there has to be something out there that is a little more versatile yet keeps the insanity we love.

**t.odd** · 03-28-2013, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by bfly

I've been skiing them everywhere as my daily driver for the last three seasons. I just imagine there has to be something out there that is a little more versatile yet keeps the insanity we love.

ditto on daily driver for last three seasons, I just don't think I want to ski anything else!