ebola outbreak- is it time to head for the hills?

[old goat]

So moronic. ...it would Seem pretty easy to avoid: ask all health care workers. "Do you plan on getting on a flight in the next 21 days?. A Yes. They get removed from Ebola duty. Simple, right? ....But no, these fuck heads at CDC decide its ok to fly with a fever. Despite the low probabilities of transmission it creates havoc and strains their ability to quarantine the disease, And helps sow irrational fear across the country

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What's so special about air travel? The CDC's travel policy also excludes trains and buses. Local buses and taxis are up to the city, but it is reasonable to assume that cities will ban that form of travel as well. How about going to the grocery store or the mall? What about coming into the hospital to work every day--you are exposing people in the hospital just as much as on a plane. What about the worker's family? Should we set up dormitories for all the people taking care of Ebola patients--the workers would be allowed to go only between the dorm and the hospital and couldn't go anywhere else? They would essentially be in prison on work release. What about caring for other patients? Are all of the dozens of people caring for an Ebola patient to be restricted from treating any other patients while they are treating the Ebola patient and for 21 days afterwards? How would you run a hospital with that kind of drain on manpower? And what makes you think a nurse or anyone else in a hospital has a choice in whether to treat an Ebola patient? In hospitals I've worked in the worker would be required to work and cancel their travel plans or get fired. They do not pay nurses nearly enough to be subjected to such burdensome restrictions, and they sure don't pay the janitors enough. It may be necessary to institute some very tight restrictions but if so there has to be some very, very generous compensation. Keep in mind that so far we have not seen any transmission from the infected nurses to people outside the hospital, although it's still very early. To me it seems reasonable to restrict travel, going out in public, and carrying for other patients to people who have a significant fever or other symptoms and a history of exposure, but not a blanket restriction on afebrile workers. And BTW the nurse's temp was 99.5, which is not a fever. How many of the people lambasting the nurse would be willing to do what she does? Any volunteers to go to Africa?

The real answer is far more stringent exposure control policies, with high-grade hazmat-type suits and the use of disinfectant sprays, and very extensive hands on training in their use. The CDC's plan to bring a team to every case seems like a good one. Bringing the patients to one of the four biohazard-ready hospitals in this country makes sense, too, as long as the transfer is managed appropriately and as long as the numbers of cases are small enough that the hospitals can handle them. And the people who are willing to care for these cases are true saints and heroes.

[DasBlunt]

Besides HIV, what are virus' that have no cure that are spreading easily/rapidly AND have a 50% death rate?

All this confidence the doctors seem to have is strange. This Dallas hospital screwed the pooch and it keeps getting worse.

Waking Dead is far off, but still, who knows how this thing mutates outside africa.

[Harry]

Great. Now they're going to start sending these jokers up to Missoula.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/st-...2d105e33f.html

Seriously? Missoula? They must not understand that Montana hospitals are not exactly the best. There's a reason that most people here go down to Denver or SLC if they need anything serious taken care of. Not saying there isn't some great staff around, but from what I've seen the population and money just isn't there to justify the latest and greatest technology.

And here I was thinking we'd be the last to see any ebola patients. Why do the powers that be see the need to spread it around the country like this? Why fly these guys ANYWHERE? Just leave them where they are and quarantine the hell out of them. I love all these statements from government officials. "We are trying our best to contain this." Soooooo, we'll fly the patients all over the friggin place. Seems to be the opposite of containment if you ask me.

Austin: read your own link.

The Rocky Mountain Lab is just down the road from Missoula in the Bitterroot Valley. It is one of our nations top BioWarfare labs, it has been there for many years. So it makes sense that the nearest major hospital be able to handle the nastiest of the nasty shit.

Per your own link, that lab is working on an Ebola cure. (Probably to vaccinate US military personnel). So guess what ? Ebola is already here in Montana, and probably has been for several years at that lab.

[Harry]

Great. Now they're going to start sending these jokers up to Missoula.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/st-...2d105e33f.html

Seriously? Missoula? They must not understand that Montana hospitals are not exactly the best. There's a reason that most people here go down to Denver or SLC if they need anything serious taken care of. Not saying there isn't some great staff around, but from what I've seen the population and money just isn't there to justify the latest and greatest technology.

And here I was thinking we'd be the last to see any ebola patients. Why do the powers that be see the need to spread it around the country like this? Why fly these guys ANYWHERE? Just leave them where they are and quarantine the hell out of them. I love all these statements from government officials. "We are trying our best to contain this." Soooooo, we'll fly the patients all over the friggin place. Seems to be the opposite of containment if you ask me.

Austin: read your own link.

The Rocky Mountain Lab is just down the road from Missoula in the Bitterroot Valley. It is one of our nations top BioWarfare labs, it has been there for many years. So it makes sense that the nearest major hospital be able to handle the nastiest of the nasty shit.

Per your own link, that lab is working on an Ebola cure. (Probably to vaccinate US military personnel). So guess what ? Ebola is already here in Montana, and probably has been for several years at that lab.

[Bromontana]

[creaky fossil]

kermit needs more specificity especially since his creator was a DC native
turning Ebola loose in Cleveland Park or Spring Valley won't do anything but make some bluehairs sick

The Rocky Mountain Lab is just down the road from Missoula in the Bitterroot Valley. It is one of our nations top BioWarfare labs, it has been there for many years. So it makes sense that the nearest major hospital be able to handle the nastiest of the nasty shit.

it makes cents, you mean
for it makes no sense at all
perhaps it helps explain why
good kind noble people
now own Missoula's water

[Alaskan Rover]

Wow. Gone for year on spiritual visionquest. Returns with humor and brevity.

Welcome back, I think. ;-)

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Yep. I'm a new me. Less asshattery. AKR ver 2.01. Thanks...I think.

[MontuckyFried]

What's so special about air travel?

Umm, the instantaneous global spreading of any given disease versus keeping it somewhat localized? Trains and buses aren't exactly crossing the Atlantic.

This video just shows the US. The global model has to be even more nuts.

[MontuckyFried]

Austin: read your own link.

The Rocky Mountain Lab is just down the road from Missoula in the Bitterroot Valley. It is one of our nations top BioWarfare labs, it has been there for many years. So it makes sense that the nearest major hospital be able to handle the nastiest of the nasty shit.

Per your own link, that lab is working on an Ebola cure. (Probably to vaccinate US military personnel). So guess what ? Ebola is already here in Montana, and probably has been for several years at that lab.

While that may be true, I still have little faith in any Montana hospitals' ability to contain anything.
A kid from Three Forks just died from a brown recluse bite after Bozeman Deaconess let him go saying "Umm, yeah. He probably has cancer," after the docs their probably just WedMD'd the symptoms. Parents took him to Billings for help, but it was too late. Some friends of mine have a kid who had a motocross accident. ER at Bozeman released him and told parents he was fine. Parents inquired further and ends up the kid had a concussion and required treatment. My wife and I had a bad experience at the ER a few months ago too. I've heard plenty more horror stories about that place. Billings hospitals seem better than Bozeman's, but I've still had friends who had to go out of state for any treatments that weren't pretty basic, like for cancer or brain tumors. Even Gray's Anatomy once had an episode where a doc was all pissed off about having to go to the Missoula hospital to do something. While that's just television and they were making fun of our podunk hospitals, from what I've witnessed, our Montana hospitals for the most part ARE behind the times and backwards on a lot of fronts. I completely understand why, given our lack of population, and that's ok in most circumstances, BUT it gives me very little reason to believe that they can contain anything at all, let alone Ebola!

Why can't they send patient X to the Rocky Mountain Lab directly? Why must they be in a general hospital? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to have the patient IN their lab in the case of something like what we're dealing with here? Also, chances are, the idiots in charge of containing this whole thing are probably going to send them on another regular commercial airline flight.

I'm not panicking or anything. I think we're going to all be just fine, and believe this whole thing IS being blown out of proportion, but it would appear that the way they're handling the whole thing is beyond incompetent, from the PR front to their non-containment of the virus.

[Mofro261]

Why can't they send patient X to the Rocky Mountain Lab directly? Why must they be in a general hospital? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to have the patient IN their lab in the case of something like what we're dealing with here? Also, chances are, the idiots in charge of containing this whole thing are probably going to send them on another regular commercial airline flight.

.

Um, because while the RML is a BSL4 containment facility, it's a research center and in no way a hospital or capable of treating patients. It's set up to research all of the nasties that are not allowed to be worked on in BSL3, has a vivarium, animal housing etc and does research on transmission, vaccines, therapeutics, etc but doesn't have beds or any capability to care for patients. A PhD and title of "Dr" in no way makes one competent to care for sick people or perform the duties of an MD or RN.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ebola NIMBYism.

[Bromontana]

kermit needs more specificity especially since his creator was a DC native
turning Ebola loose in Cleveland Park or Spring Valley won't do anything but make some bluehairs sick

I was hoping the planes would crash on approach in Georgetown and Potomac, specifically Dan Snyder's house and one of the daily M street madras shorts festivals. Cleveland Park at least has some labor salesmen, including a friend who's more down to earth than your typical periphery suburban types.

[MontuckyFried]

Um, because while the RML is a BSL4 containment facility, it's a research center and in no way a hospital or capable of treating patients. It's set up to research all of the nasties that are not allowed to be worked on in BSL3, has a vivarium, animal housing etc and does research on transmission, vaccines, therapeutics, etc but doesn't have beds or any capability to care for patients. A PhD and title of "Dr" in no way makes one competent to care for sick people or perform the duties of an MD or RN.

Well that seems dumb that these major labs have no way of keeping patients. They like to use animals so they can observe this stuff first hand, right? Why wouldn't they do the same with humans who have already contracted the disease? I would just chalk it up to "Well, they must know what they're doing," but the powers that be keep proving that wrong time and time again. Hopefully the truth is better than what it appears, but to the layman like myself, it just seems like everybody in charge is running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[Bromontana]

^ Frontier is refurbing the plane that carried the nurse, replacing upholstery, carpet, multiple cleanings etc.

On the bright side, they're getting ahead of the PR risk. Now to get the exposed into Guantanamo.

[Mofro261]

Well that seems dumb that these major labs have no way of keeping patients. They like to use animals so they can observe this stuff first hand, right? Why wouldn't they do the same with humans who have already contracted the disease? I would just chalk it up to "Well, they must know what they're doing," but the powers that be keep proving that wrong time and time again. Hopefully the truth is better than what it appears, but to the layman like myself, it just seems like everybody in charge is running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Ah yes, wouldn't it be great to just be able to experiment directly on people and then we wouldn't need animal models. But more to the point- these are your tax dollars at work, and having the staff and infrastructure on hand at any BSL4 lab to treat and care for the 3 patients a year that may need treatment doesn't fly in the face of budget cuts.

[Buster Highmen]

Mofro - from which font came your patience?
Parenting or posting here?

Just wondering.

[BmillsSkier]

Still nonplussed by the government's rationale behind not instituting a travel ban from hot zone countries. It is literally, "we can't institute a flight ban on people traveling to America because we have to stop the spread of ebola in Africa" What???

http://online.wsj.com/articles/who-d...are-1413502475

[PNWbrit]

In case there was any need for another reason to never go on a cruise.....

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hospita...ry?id=26263642

[wooley12]

Remember when many thought that you could get AIDS from a toilet seat? People are pussies.

[PNWbrit]

Still nonplussed by the government's rationale behind not instituting a travel ban from hot zone countries

It does seem somewhat bizarre.

Especially for a country that has maintained a travel embargo to Cuba for so long.

Although you really weren't likely to get an answer from the WSJ... it'd be like scouring the NYT for a defence of gun show loopholes.

[Mofro261]

Still nonplussed by the government's rationale behind not instituting a travel ban from hot zone countries. It is literally, "we can't institute a flight ban on people traveling to America because we have to stop the spread of ebola in Africa" What???

http://online.wsj.com/articles/who-d...are-1413502475

Well super genius, despite the fact that there are NO DIRECT FLIGHTS FROM THE US to the hot zone countries of Liberia, Seirra Leone, or Guinea, what is it you are asking for? Have the US to use military to take over the airports in these countries to block air transport to and from these countries? Ban travel to all of Africa regardless of whether they are outbreak countries ? Bar entry to anyone with a passport from these countries? Ban all international travel?

FYI- the man who infected 2 health care workers in Dallas arrived on a flight from Belgium.

Mofro - from which font came your patience?
Parenting or posting here?

Just wondering.

It must be from posting here- my kids tend to get it right the first time around.

[Buster Highmen]

Well super genius, despite the fact that there are NO DIRECT FLIGHTS FROM THE US to the hot zone countries of Liberia, Seirra Leone, or Guinea, what is it you are asking for? Have the US to use military to take over the airports in these countries to block air transport to and from these countries? Ban travel to all of Africa regardless of whether they are outbreak countries ? Bar entry to anyone with a passport from these countries? Ban all international travel?

FYI- the man who infected 2 health care workers in Dallas arrived on a flight from Belgium.




It must be from posting here- my kids tend to get it right the first time around.

Clearly.

[BmillsSkier]

Well super genius, despite the fact that there are NO DIRECT FLIGHTS FROM THE US to the hot zone countries of Liberia, Seirra Leone, or Guinea, what is it you are asking for? Have the US to use military to take over the airports in these countries to block air transport to and from these countries? Ban travel to all of Africa regardless of whether they are outbreak countries ? Bar entry to anyone with a passport from these countries? Ban all international travel?

FYI- the man who infected 2 health care workers in Dallas arrived on a flight from Belgium.




It must be from posting here- my kids tend to get it right the first time around.

Calm down Francis.

Everyone knows there are no direct flights but by all means, keep screaming that. A travel ban would affect those with passports from affected countries and those with itineraries originating in those countries. African nations are already doing this, are you saying the US isn't capable of doing the same?

[The AD]

A travel ban would affect those with passports from affected countries and those with itineraries originating in those countries. African nations are already doing this, are you saying the US isn't capable of doing the same?

It sounds reasonable to me. Hell, Canada bars US citizens from entering the country for having a DUI on their record.

[PNWbrit]

AFAIA the reasoning being given for having not done it isn't whether we're able to do so (and that now it is being considered anyway). Rather that it would disrupt aid getting to the area - that seems like it would be easy to get around by issuing some kind of aid worker visa.