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  1. #2701
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    That Ari Paul video was very interesting. I like the ending, where he talks about the costs of Bitcoin, and how they are so high, the energy required to mine and do the proof of work required to keep the system secure. But the point how you can't compare that cost to the cost of visa transactions, or amex transactions, you have to compare that cost to the cost of securing the fiat currency structure, including up to military spending that can be tied to propping up the dollar.
    In that case, you need to tie those costs to bitcoin as well, since it relies upon a stable fiat currency to express its value, and if not, you have to figure out how much an unstable currency costs the economy that relies upon it and account for that.

    I’m skeptical that propping up the dollar is anything more than a poor expression for what is actually propping up a stable economy. Which bitcoin relies upon, its dubious utility in skidding economies notwithstanding.

    In other words: nonsense points are nonsense.
    focus.

  2. #2702
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    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    That Ari Paul video was very interesting. I like the ending, where he talks about the costs of Bitcoin, and how they are so high, the energy required to mine and do the proof of work required to keep the system secure. But the point how you can't compare that cost to the cost of visa transactions, or amex transactions, you have to compare that cost to the cost of securing the fiat currency structure, including up to military spending that can be tied to propping up the dollar.
    You should really think of the inverse. What are the costs of a low-trust, high-risk, insecure, unstable society? Why do people who live in such societys park their money in higher trust, rule of law nations if they can afford to do so? Parasitically riding on the former, while paying for the latter, is a short term arbitrage.

  3. #2703
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    That military spending props up society, not the dollar. The stability of USD is a consequence of a stable and just society and general world peace.
    Military spending enriches the ruling class at the expense of everyone else. If you want to dedicate your life to hating on something maybe go after them instead of a potential equalizer.

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  4. #2704
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Military spending enriches the ruling class at the expense of everyone else. If you want to dedicate your life to hating on something maybe go after them instead of a potential equalizer.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Hah! BTC is an equalizer! Of course it is!

    Lulz.

    The fuck are you smoking?
    focus.

  5. #2705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Hah! BTC is an equalizer! Of course it is!

    Lulz.

    The fuck are you smoking?
    Easy for you to say from the comfort of your first world lounge chair. Your opinion is much different than that of my Venezuelan friend, for which crypto has been the only thing enabling him to eat for months.

    Keep screaming at people driving by in Model Ts that horses are the only true method of transportation.

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  6. #2706
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Easy for you to say from the comfort of your first world lounge chair. Your opinion is much different than that of my Venezuelan friend, for which crypto has been the only thing enabling him to eat for months.

    Keep screaming at people driving by in Model Ts that horses are the only true method of transportation.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Really? His opinion is that BTC is an equalizer against the Venezuelan military?

    Right, I’m shaking my fist at BTC because it’s too damn fast.
    focus.

  7. #2707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    But all in it's a choice between the current system which you know will fail.
    False premise is false.
    focus.

  8. #2708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Really? His opinion is that BTC is an equalizer against the Venezuelan military?

    Right, I’m shaking my fist at BTC because it’s too damn fast.
    I'm not sure if you're trolling or just dense. BTC is an equalizer against power imbalances. Is BTC perfect? Absolutely not; but it's a step in the right direction IMO.

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  9. #2709
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    I'm not sure if you're trolling or just dense. BTC is an equalizer against power imbalances. Is BTC perfect? Absolutely not; but it's a step in the right direction IMO.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    How? How does it equalize against a power imbalance?

    Real world experiment: Offer your friend $50 in BTC, or 50 actual dollars. Like, greenbacks.

    See which he feels equalizes him against his oppressors.
    focus.

  10. #2710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    How? How does it equalize against a power imbalance?

    Real world experiment: Offer your friend $50 in BTC, or 50 actual dollars. Like, greenbacks.

    See which he feels equalizes him against his oppressors.
    I've literally paid for people to eat in Venezuela with crypto. But you can believe what you want and feel smug.

    What I'm referring to is not an overnight change. We're talking about a generation at least, maybe more. The ruling class isn't just going to give up its power overnight. What power is that? Endless QE for the rich and a perpetual war machine. The F-35 can barely fucking fly and dickwads like Jamie Dimon are going around claiming how recessions are good for him. It's easy enough for me to see what side I want to be on. If you're fine with the current system, than you're a part of the problem.

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  11. #2711
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    the word money is just a symbol of value, and quite necessary. for me, for you. we are lucky to have that. real wealth?; it comes from within.

    and the oracle is cool af btw. a student of dementia


  12. #2712
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    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    the word money is just a symbol of value, and quite necessary. for me, for you. we are lucky to have that. real wealth?; it comes from within.

    and the oracle is cool af btw. a student of dementia

    Should be interesting when Justin Sun and Charlie Lee have lunch with WB. Sun is kind of a kook to me on most things, but bringing Charlie is a good call.

    In terms of diversification in a crypto portfolio I like 50/25/25. Fifty percent BTC, 25 big caps (approximately top 10), and 25% small caps. Heavier on BTC is okay, but definitely no more on alts.



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  13. #2713
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    sf you really think everyone who has money now is just going to agree to a reset and watch you become new overlord? that’s why i never got btc as a currency. the application of tech is obviously worthwhile, but seems separate to me.

  14. #2714
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    sf you really think everyone who has money now is just going to agree to a reset and watch you become new overlord? that’s why i never got btc as a currency. the application of tech is obviously worthwhile, but seems separate to me.
    I just said they are not going to give up power easily. The beauty of BTC is, it's not their choice.

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  15. #2715
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    i don't claim to understand much of any of it. but the reality is; most of us move numbers around on a screen all the time, everyone is looking at a hand held device. the sarcophagi of the soul.

    it's the same thing that has been around for millennia. only new, and different, but not really..

  16. #2716
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    do you really want to carry around chunks of metal.

    whatever gets you to sleep at night.

  17. #2717
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    the internet has happened. cool to be living now,

    i grew up w some money, i still have some money.

    the badass, outlaw, sk8ter in me has much respect for the internets own boy.

    opening up knowledge for everyone is my idea of blok.

    Last edited by byates1; 06-17-2019 at 11:10 PM. Reason: cocaine and hookers my friend.

  18. #2718
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    Pulled mine at 9300.

    Lets get a nice mid summer drop and Ill be playing on pure profit.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  19. #2719
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    So let’s jump all in on the Lambos, so to speak, and envision a future where we DO migrate to the blockchain. Whether it’s Bitcoin or One of the others, let say that a large portion of transactions and storage of wealth does become Crypto based.

    So banks take it in the ass and become much smaller players. Ok, so we have much less friction. That could be a good thing.

    So transactions are now P2P and hidden from view. What happens to taxing authority and public investments like roads and defense and what not? That all goes away and we are left with only private investment in infrastructure? Toll roads and whatnot? So we won’t be able to find wars with centralized monetary control, that could be good in theory, but what about if a bad actor like Russia funds an army to invade countries that now don’t sponsor their own military because they are mostly crypto citizens? What happens to fund defense? crypto citizens spontaneously get together to fund a private army?

    What happens if the power grids go down? How does one get their wealth then? Who pays for maintaining the powder grid ?

    Yeah yeah it ain’t happening soon, but if that’s the utopian future via crypto, how do these issues play?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  20. #2720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    You understand power grid failure would destroy society right now, right?
    It would be highly disruptive. But with accounts being centralized they could be brought on line with local power sources. But by design crypto is decentralized and if not enough nodes are powered up and performing transactions, then...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  21. #2721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    how do you individually prepare for a future where money is predominantly digital? Personally, I don't know yet.
    I sure hope there are enough people out there who will completely reject the push for digitization of money, as I don't see how it can lead to anything but the further concentration of wealth. The poor in this country have a hard enough time accessing the banking system as it is right now, and it will only become less accessible to those on the margins as it becomes more digitized.

  22. #2722
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    I sure hope there are enough people out there who will completely reject the push for digitization of money, as I don't see how it can lead to anything but the further concentration of wealth. The poor in this country have a hard enough time accessing the banking system as it is right now, and it will only become less accessible to those on the margins as it becomes more digitized.
    I think that is backwards. The example of Venezuela has been trotted out several times as an example where poor are able to more effectively use money due to it being digitized. The risk of dealing with the bank and inflation due to government incompetence is removed.
    In the us, fees and other banking costs associated with banking, as well as hurdles like the right id, are inhibitors to use of the banking system by the poor. The banks see you as a way to make money, if you are rich, they lend your money. If you are poor, they charge you high fees. I would think an efficient low cost digital currency would actually solve many of the banking accessibility issues faced by the poor.

    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  23. #2723
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    Except for the fact that many poor people in the US have no/marginalized access to the internet, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

    I also don't fully buy the argument that fees/costs associated with our current banking system are the primary factor that reduces the accessibility of our current banking system. I can't be the only person who has never, ever paid a fee to open or maintain an account at a bank, and I sure wasn't getting preferential treatment because of how much I was depositing.

    FTR, I'm not necessarily shitting all over bitcoin/blockchain, but I think the notion of it democratizing access to "banking" is flawed.
    Last edited by glademaster; 06-18-2019 at 01:31 PM.

  24. #2724
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    I feel like I have seen this movie before. Ugh

  25. #2725
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    #buybitcoin

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