To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Adolf Allerbush]

If only there had been some way to know that this might be how it went...

But, you know, nobody can know any of this.

It's really quite a huge mystery.

Ah, well. What are you gonna do, right?

Totally. And, one critique I'd have of the map is that it's misleading, just in that it shows the metro areas as having lots of sick people, when in reality that's just where the ICU beds are and the patients, at least around here, are anti-vaccine folks from rural areas and urban areas.

[ticketchecker]

She needs to calm down. Besides, antivaxxers don't respond to math.

Oh they use ‘new math’




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[bennymac]

Normal person: “2+2=4”

Antivaxxer: “yeah but 2+1 doesn’t equal 4!!”

Normal person: “yeah but that’s a different equation”

Antivaxxer: “oh yeah? Where’d you hear that…CNN?”

[Skidog]

But somewhere, some prominent scientists interpreted the science to mean that there was no longer a need to track mild covid cases and to discourage surveillance testing for schools, which then became policy, while other prominent scientists were clearly providing evidence as to why these were bad decisions.

And therein lies the problem. Who's "science" do you follow when they are all "prominent"?

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[yeahman]

If only there had been some way to know that this might be how it went...

But, you know, nobody can know any of this.

It's really quite a huge mystery.

Ah, well. What are you gonna do, right?

Colorado is doing pretty well. Maybe I'll move to the Front Range where all the smarty pants live.

Big Island and Maui in the red. We just canceled our planned Christmas trip to Maui, which we booked back in July (of course). Several other families we know are also canceling Hawaii plans for this winter. I'm sure others will jump in to fill the empty beds, but it just didn't feel right.

[Skidog]

My wife's cousin is a practicing anesthesiologist and anti vax pro trumper. She move to Florida to be more around her kind..

Yeah and I'm sure she's totally stupid right? They go to school longer than the surgeons.

Why can't you all figure out that none of it's proven? The goal posts move daily, weekly, monthly... What makes one scientists opinion any worse or better than another's? Ooooh yeah cause the one you disagree with is for sure just plain stupid and "doesn't get it".

Beaters

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[skaredshtles]

Colorado is doing pretty well. Maybe I'll move to the Front Range where all the smarty pants live.

Eh... our FR county is not great.

But the country as a whole is setting a pretty low bar. So comparatively, maybe we're doing OK?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yeah and I'm sure she's totally stupid right? They go to school longer than the surgeons.

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Did you know that anesthesia residency is four years and that surgical residencies range from four to seven years? How can you throw out comments like this with absolutely no knowledge of what you’re talking about? Not that it has anything to do with the topic.


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[bennymac]

Yeah and I'm sure she's totally stupid right? They go to school longer than the surgeons.

It's fascinating to watch skidog and mtu and others throw out definitive statements - usually while calling others stupid or retarded - that are just wrong.

What makes one scientists opinion any worse or better than another's? Ooooh yeah cause the one you disagree with is for sure just plain stupid and "doesn't get it".

Beaters

"Rabies is actually from malnourishment and mistreatment" (from the post being discussed)

if a health care professional or a scientist says shit like this they are wrong. This isn't a matter of opinion. They are indeed stupid. They totally "don't get it".

Vibes as you come to grips with something your parents must have failed to teach you - you have the right to an opinion...you do not have the right to demand that opinion be respected.

[The AD]

Why can't you all figure out that none of it's proven? The goal posts move daily, weekly, monthly... What makes one scientists opinion any worse or better than another's? Ooooh yeah cause the one you disagree with is for sure just plain stupid and "doesn't get it".

No idea what you're getting at here. You are correct about opinion and conjecture, but there are plenty of people who simply won't believe the evidence that's in front of their eyes and that's the big problem. There is zero evidence supporting the idea that vaccinations are not effective against Covid.

[ticketchecker]

It can all be so exhausting. But vaccines without vaccinations is going to land us where we are— an embarrassment of resources & the world’s ongoing hot spot.


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[365wp]

Why can't you all figure out that none of it's proven?

I know we're still figuring it out. But until then, I'm wearing a mask even though I got my second shot in May because 1. I have an unvaccinated kid at home, and the new strains may not be as easy on the kids and 2. Why not? What's the big deal? It's not like I'm doing it because somebody ordered me to, it's that the evidence we have so far points to a mask + vaccine reducing the probability of transmission and hospitalization. If it's unproven, why not do the easy thing to err on the side of not getting people sick?

No I don't want to wait until I get COVID for the natural immunity. Out of the four people I know personally who got it who are in their mid-40s like me, one had a mild cold, one is a long hauler, one required major surgery, and one is dead. No comorbidities or risk factors. I don't want that, for me or anybody I come into contact with.

My dad got COVID at one of the three hospitals he was in from June through August while recovering from treatment for lymphoma. The only time he left the hospital was to go in the next one in an ambulance. Luckily, he and my mom were vaccinated, so he lived. The first hospital took COVID seriously and everybody was masking up, the other two not so much. His lung function is greatly reduced, and every day is touch and go. So, thanks for that, whomever made that personal decision.

[365wp]

If you point at the cost of the vaccine as a profit grab, consider the cost of the health care we are providing for unvaccinated COVID patients. The cost of the ICU stays alone is pretty high, let alone the cost of hiring travel nurses, stopping any kind of voluntary procedure, both from the risk of infecting patients, and the potential capacity issues if there is a surge caused by COVID, etc.

Consider the fact that most of the leaders of the anti-vax crowd have been vaccinated themselves for some time, including Desantis.

[The AD]

No I don't want to wait until I get COVID for the natural immunity.

And no one should. The whole point now should be to try to reduce the number of infected people, and there is absolutely no question that vaccinating as much of the population as possible is the best way to achieve that. Anyone who disagrees with that basic principle should be disregarded with extreme prejudice.

[jackattack]

And therein lies the problem. Who's "science" do you follow when they are all "prominent"?

you follow the consensus of qualified experts, not your aunt's crazy nurse on the facebook

[Skidog]

Did you know that anesthesia residency is four years and that surgical residencies range from four to seven years? How can you throw out comments like this with absolutely no knowledge of what you’re talking about? Not that it has anything to do with the topic.


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You're a fucking idiot. I said schooling and they need 8 years medical training. Again bunch of fucking beaters.

https://www.asahq.org/education-and-...ia-as-a-career



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[bennymac]

You're a fucking idiot. I said schooling and they need 8 years medical training. Again bunch of fucking beaters.

https://www.asahq.org/education-and-...ia-as-a-career



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Keep going. You're doing great today. Put your back into it.

[Skidog]

I know we're still figuring it out. But until then, I'm wearing a mask even though I got my second shot in May because 1. I have an unvaccinated kid at home, and the new strains may not be as easy on the kids and 2. Why not? What's the big deal? It's not like I'm doing it because somebody ordered me to, it's that the evidence we have so far points to a mask + vaccine reducing the probability of transmission and hospitalization. If it's unproven, why not do the easy thing to err on the side of not getting people sick?

No I don't want to wait until I get COVID for the natural immunity. Out of the four people I know personally who got it who are in their mid-40s like me, one had a mild cold, one is a long hauler, one required major surgery, and one is dead. No comorbidities or risk factors. I don't want that, for me or anybody I come into contact with.

My dad got COVID at one of the three hospitals he was in from June through August while recovering from treatment for lymphoma. The only time he left the hospital was to go in the next one in an ambulance. Luckily, he and my mom were vaccinated, so he lived. The first hospital took COVID seriously and everybody was masking up, the other two not so much. His lung function is greatly reduced, and every day is touch and go. So, thanks for that, whomever made that personal decision.

I am doing all those things too as I've mentioned like 100 times.

Vaxxed
Whole family vaxxed
1 son sub 12 will get vaxxed when ok'd.

None of that changes the fact that there are some respected scientists questioning the methodologies in place. Simple as that. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make them wrong. They are not "stupid", they are not all "Trumpers", some people just want their choice and to make medical decisions on their own.

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[Skidog]

you follow the consensus of qualified experts, not your aunt's crazy nurse on the facebook

And there isn't any "qualified experts" saying they have different opinions on how to handle this? If you think that you're wrong.

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[The AD]

None of that changes the fact that there are some respected scientists questioning the methodologies in place.

What methodologies, though? Is there actually a "respected scientist" who is anti-vax?

[Skidog]

Did you know that anesthesia residency is four years and that surgical residencies range from four to seven years? How can you throw out comments like this with absolutely no knowledge of what you’re talking about? Not that it has anything to do with the topic.


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Just wanted to reiterate....

Did you know that....you're an idiot?

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

You're a fucking idiot. I said schooling and they need 8 years medical training. Again bunch of fucking beaters.

https://www.asahq.org/education-and-...ia-as-a-career



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Did you know that both surgeons and anesthesiologists go to undergrad, medical school and a residency? That’s 8 years of school before residency. So most anesthesiologists and surgeons have the same length of training unless they’re in a surgical specialty that has a longer residency. This information is widely available and in my case I have over three decades of working with both anesthesiologists and surgeons every day.

Is it terribly painful to be this wrong about things? You make statements as if they’re fact but they’re entirely wrong.


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[wkd-rdr]

Had a coworker die in the ER here. Everyone knew her, code went on for 2 hours... Two hours too many, because everyone knew her and couldn't quit. Awful shit.
Very young, very unvaxxed.

[jackattack]

And there isn't any "qualified experts" saying they have different opinions on how to handle this? If you think that you're wrong.

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do you know what consensus means?

there's a difference between "qualified" and "prominent", for example: skidog is a prominent conspiracy theorist on tgr with 14000+ misinformed posts arguing against a consensus of qualified medical professionals.

[jackattack]

You're a fucking idiot. I said schooling and they need 8 years medical training. Again bunch of fucking beaters.

a lot of people go to school for 8 years, they're called doctors. surprised you didn't know that.