To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[summit]

I'm not going to put so many words in Summit's mouth, but I see him suggesting the and kind of thing that had been suggested numerous times before: that 3 phases of trials for a minor adjustment is overkill. Particularly when the risk of delay is greater than the risk of moving forward. Do a phase I, establish safety, and get the adjusted version out.

This is what I was speaking to.

[ex-powderbroker]

5' 3" 165 is a bmi of 29.2

only .5 away from obese so virtualy obese,

some one needs to take away the forks

turns out that in my skimming of altasnob's posts i missed that they were 65 years old. It still seems like a likely contributor to all of the heart disease that is so common in women these days. Maybe they can prancercise?

[summit]

Prevailing thought is that omicron gives you immunity perhaps for a few months. Does this mean that in highly infected locations, masks are no longer necessary?

If you are asking "is there herd immunity?" well the answer for something as contagious as Omicron is that you need >90% of people to be immune. That is, of course, why MMR, covering similarly contagious diseases, is a mandatory vaccine to attend school because we want vaccine uptake >>90%.

Using the word "necessary" is loaded. To me, necessary could have an individual health connotation (are you high risk or in a high risk setting without certain immunity) vs public health policy (are transmission controls needed to preserve healthcare and economic function in a community).

[dunfree]

Some good stuff in the NYTimes this morning:

"Since early last week, new cases in Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey and New York have fallen by more than 30 percent. They’re down by more than 10 percent in Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. In California, cases may have peaked."

"If anything, the official Covid numbers probably understate the actual declines, because test results are often a few days behind reality."

They discuss Oxford's COVID risk culator: https://qcovid.org/Home/

"A typical 65-year-old American woman — to take one example — is five foot three inches tall and weighs 166 pounds. If she had been vaccinated and did not have a major Covid risk factor, like an organ transplant, her chance of dying after contracting Covid would be 1 in 872, according to the calculator. For a typical 65-year-old man, the risk would be 1 in 434.

Among 75-year-olds, the risk would be 1 in 264 for a typical woman and 1 in 133 for a typical man.

Those are meaningful risks. But they are not larger than many other risks older people face. In the 2019-20 flu season, about 1 out of every 138 Americans 65 and older who had flu symptoms died from them, according to the C.D.C.

And Omicron probably presents less risk than the British calculator suggests, because it uses data through the first half of 2021, when the dominant version of Covid was more severe than Omicron appears to be."

Pretty fucking dishonest to compare overall risk with the risk of people with flu symptoms, but that’s your jam.

[wooley12]

5' 3" 165 is a bmi of 29.2

only .5 away from obese so virtualy obese,

some one needs to take away the forks

Fat people were bread and butter for me in my working career. Your "solution" is not the answer. BTW, my sister is very obese and has lung issues. She got Covid for Christmas and survived it like it was a bad cold thanks to being fully vaxed. Get the pokeand don't breathe on me is all I ask of anyone.

[altasnob]

Pretty fucking dishonest to compare overall risk with the risk of people with flu symptoms, but that’s your jam.

It's not my jam, it's the NYTimes' jam:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/b...ant-cases.html

[abraham]

Oh, and I suck Trevor Bedford's dick because unlike most scientist who are pompous with sticks up their ass, he actually shares his thoughts with the masses via his twitter feed.

I pick and choose my lawyers based solely on on minimal bloviation.

[altasnob]

As a lawyer, I try to learn the medical science from the medical and scientific professionals, because duh, I'm a lawyer.

As a lawyer, altasnob tries to critique them. FFS.

Use your mad lawyering skills to answer my question:

"It's not the universal vaccine that appears novel to me. It's proposing they waive (or shorten) clinical trials to get variant tailored booster shots to the masses quickly. Is this being discussed? If so, please provide cite."

[XXX-er]

turns out that in my skimming of altasnob's posts i missed that they were 65 years old. It still seems like a likely contributor to all of the heart disease that is so common in women these days. Maybe they can prancercise?

or perhaps a rousing game of pickle ball ?

on the chair I was talking to my buddy the OR nurse/ skier/ runner/ ww paddler about our respective ACL issues and he said said the biggest deal he see's every day IS overweight & sedentary

[XXX-er]

Fat people were bread and butter for me in my working career. Your "solution" is not the answer. BTW, my sister is very obese and has lung issues. She got Covid for Christmas and survived it like it was a bad cold thanks to being fully vaxed. Get the pokeand don't breathe on me is all I ask of anyone.

Sounds like too much bread & butter to me ?

which came 1st the obese or the lung issues,

do all obese people have lung issues or just a lot more health issues in general, does north america have an obesity problem ?

I think that trump fella had the right idea, if you just don't ask the question the probelem will go away

[schuss]

Prevailing thought is that omicron gives you immunity perhaps for a few months. Does this mean that in highly infected locations, masks are no longer necessary?

No. Because the number of vulnerable is not 0 and if they don't have meaningful vaccination rates it will still kill people or make them sick.

[jono]

Use your mad lawyering skills to answer my question:

"It's not the universal vaccine that appears novel to me. It's proposing they waive (or shorten) clinical trials to get variant tailored booster shots to the masses quickly. Is this being discussed? If so, please provide cite."

Better idea: search, JONG. Old goat was suggesting that kind of stuff in like April or May of 2020. When you find it, please inform your friends at the NYT. As one of their last readers, you must have some pull over there.

(By some mad coincidence it seems to be you and every dyed in the wool cultist I know IRL who are still checking the NYT's clickbait headlines on the daily. Or maybe that's not a coincidence, what do I know?)

[Harry]

If you are asking "is there herd immunity?" well the answer for something as contagious as Omicron is that you need >90% of people to be immune. That is, of course, why MMR, covering similarly contagious diseases, is a mandatory vaccine to attend school because we want vaccine uptake >>90%.

Using the word "necessary" is loaded. To me, necessary could have an individual health connotation (are you high risk or in a high risk setting without certain immunity) vs public health policy (are transmission controls needed to preserve healthcare and economic function in a community).

Info like this is why I come to this thread.


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[altasnob]

Better idea: search, JONG. Old goat was suggesting that kind of stuff in like April or May of 2020. When you find it, please inform your friends at the NYT. As one of their last readers, you must have some pull over there.

(By some mad coincidence it seems to be you and every dyed in the wool cultist I know IRL who are still checking the NYT's clickbait headlines on the daily. Or maybe that's not a coincidence, what do I know?)

Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

"We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization

[jono]

And you contribute to that daily. I'm beginning to understand.

[Self Jupiter]

I pick and choose my lawyers based solely on on minimal bloviation.

I’d settle for one that does some actual work

[Kinnikinnick]

I call my father who has been fighting cancer to see how he’s doing. He starts ranting about how Covid is no worse than the flu and he might have it now [didnt get the booster on not believing that the vax helps]. Rants that the deaths are no worse than an avg year of flu, other than in people with multiple comorbidities. 3/4 of fatalities I told him that this was false and that even excluding those it still was more than 10x the deaths of annual flu.

He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

I call his BS.

He hangs up on me.


Fucking Trumptarded moron.


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[Percy Rideout]

Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

"We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization

This doesn't get brought up enough, which is the demise of traditional journalism as the money has all but dried up from local newsrooms, and instead now goes to the modern day robber barons for advertising (Google/Alphabet/Amazon).

Particularly affected is local journalism which used to be the way locals were informed and were able to keep tabs on their elected officials. There's no accountability anymore.

[TNKen]

Our local health care system has 750 employees out w/ the 'vid.

https://www.wjhl.com/local-coronavir...ID%20Wednesday

Other interesting stats from the CEO.

Ballad Health’s COVID-19 scorecard released on Wednesday stated that there are 349 COVID-19 patients hospitalized and 70 patients in the COVID-19 intensive care units. Of those hospitalized patients, 86% are unvaccinated against COVID-19. Ballad Health reported that 96% of the ICU patients are unvaccinated.

In replies to the tweet, Levine answered questions from other users who inquired about the vaccination status of the 750 employees who tested positive. He said 79% of those who were out on Wednesday were vaccinated.

And the system has given a vaccination date deadline in response to the USCCT opinion.

[Percy Rideout]

I call my father who has been fighting cancer to see how he’s doing. He starts ranting about how Covid is no worse than the flu and he might have it now because he has conjunctivitis. Rants that the deaths are no worse than an avg year of flu, other than in people with multiple comorbidities. 3/4 of fatalities I told him that this was false and that even excluding those it still was more than 10x the deaths of annual flu.

He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

I call his BS.

He hangs up on me.


Fucking Trumptarded moron.


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Don't worry. He's probably equally disappointed in his progeny.

[Mofro261]

Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

"We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization

And yet, WE ALREADY DO.

Influenza vaccines are re-formulated each year to account for different strains in circulation without conducting clinical trials to show efficacy against those strains.

Now I kind of feel like we've been through this many times in this thread alone, but the Influenza vaccine, which is administered every year (6 mos in S. Hemisphere, 6 mos in the N. Hemisphere) comprises 3-4 different virus strains, each with much greater diversity than that observed for the genetic mutations occuring in sars-2 VOC, and is and has been re-formulated over and over again to account for what are the most prevalent strains in circulation each year.

This year 2 of the 4 strains were swapped out. No bridging studies necessary, just based on surveillance assessing prevalence of what is currently circulating.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-f...htm#what-virus

There are many different flu viruses, and they are constantly changing. The composition of US flu vaccines is reviewed annually and updated as needed to match circulating flu viruses. This season, all flu vaccines will be designed to protect against the four viruses that research indicates will be most common. Each year, the Food and Drug Administration’s Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) makes the recommendation for the flu vaccine composition for US flu vaccines.

For 2021-2022, recommendations were made for egg-based, cell-based, and recombinant flu vaccines as listed below:
Egg-based vaccine composition recommendations:
an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage)

Cell- or recombinant-based vaccine composition recommendations:
an A/Wisconsin/588/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).

These recommendations include two updates compared with 2020-2021 US flu vaccines. Both the influenza A(H1N1) and the influenza A(H3N2) vaccine virus components were updated. Compared with the Southern Hemisphere flu vaccine recommendation, this recommendation represents one update and that is to the influenza A(H3N2) component.

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-b...21-2022-season

FDA's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) met in Silver Spring, Maryland, on March 5, 2021, to select the influenza viruses for the composition of the influenza vaccine for the 2021-2022 U.S. influenza season. During this meeting, the advisory committee reviewed and evaluated the surveillance data related to epidemiology and antigenic characteristics of recent influenza isolates, serological responses to 2020-2021 vaccines, and the availability of candidate strains and reagents.

Influenza virus strains were selected based on the influenza vaccine production method; egg-based and cell- or recombinant based.

The committee recommended that the quadrivalent formulation of egg-based influenza vaccines for the U.S. 2021-2022 influenza season contain the following:

an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).

https://www.who.int/publications/m/i...fluenza-season

26 February 2021 Page 1 of 10
Recommended composition of influenza virus vaccines for use in the 2021-2022 northern hemisphere influenza season
February 2021
WHO convenes technical consultations1 in February and September each year to recommend viruses for inclusion in influenza vaccines2 for the northern and southern hemisphere influenza seasons, respectively. This recommendation relates to the influenza vaccines for use in the northern hemisphere 2021-2022 influenza season. A recommendation will be made in September 2021 relating to vaccines that will be used for the southern hemisphere 2022 influenza season. For countries in tropical and subtropical regions, WHO recommendations for influenza vaccine composition (northern hemisphere or southern hemisphere) are available on the WHO Global Influenza Programme website3.
Seasonal influenza activity
Public health and laboratory responses to the COVID-19 pandemic, caused by the coronavirus SARS- CoV-2, initially led to reduced influenza surveillance and/or reporting activities in many countries, which have been improving. Additionally, COVID-19 mitigation strategies including restrictions on travel, use of respiratory protection, and social-distancing measures in most countries have contributed to decreased influenza activity. Overall, record-low levels of influenza detections were reported and fewer viruses were available for characterization during the September 2020 to January 2021 time-period than in previous years.
Between September 2020 and January 2021, influenza A(H1N1)pdm09, A(H3N2) and influenza B viruses circulated in very low numbers and the relative proportions of the viruses circulating varied among reporting countries. Globally, since September 2020, influenza activity was mostly reported from countries in the tropics and subtropics and some countries in the temperate zone of the northern hemisphere. Overall, the percent positivity for influenza viruses in all specimens tested during this period was less than 0.2%. In contrast, the average percent positivity during the same reporting period of the three previous seasons (2017-2020) was 17%.
In the temperate zone of the northern hemisphere, influenza activity remained far lower than usual for this time of year, with very low-level detections of influenza A and B viruses in reporting countries. In Europe, there were only sporadic detections of influenza A or B viruses. By comparison with previous years, there was a 20% reduction in the number of specimens tested, but a 99% reduction in influenza positive samples. In North America, the percentage of tests that were positive for influenza virus was very low, despite testing at usual or increased levels. The majority of detections were influenza B, and where subtyping was performed, both A(H1N1)pdm09 and A(H3N2) viruses were reported. In Asia, influenza activity was also lower than usual for this time of year. Influenza A and B viruses were detected in most reporting countries with a predominance of influenza B viruses in Afghanistan, China, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Saudi Arabia. In the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea only influenza A viruses were reported, with A(H1N1)pdm09 predominating. Japan reported a slight increase in influenza activity in week 5 of 2021, with a small outbreak of A(H3N2).

This is done because the approved process for vaccine production doesn't change even as the strains change, along with the added cost and complexity of repeating clinical trials each year.

[Kinnikinnick]

Don't worry. He's probably equally disappointed in his progeny.

Go back to the other thread and answer my question, intellectual pussy


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[Buzzworthy]

I call my father…
He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

I call his BS.

He hangs up on me.


Fucking Trumptarded moron.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Vibes man, similar boat here.
Dad watching Tucker daily.
Got one does J&J because you know, MRNA stuff is an experiment on us.
Brother in Philly is moving out with them to AZ end of month. Parents fly out this morning to get stuff loaded into the truck.
Brother tests positive 3 days ago and is rather sick, despite two shots and a booster.
In a few hours they are all going to be together.
Guess my parents get it too.

Yeah I’m pretty pissed off my parents went down the rabbit hole. Really dumb.

[altasnob]

And yet, WE ALREADY DO.

Influenza vaccines are re-formulated each year to account for different strains in circulation without conducting clinical trials to show efficacy against those strains.

This is done because the approved process for vaccine production doesn't change even as the strains change, along with the added cost and complexity of repeating clinical trials each year.

I totally get that we put out flu vaccines every year without clinical trials. And I get that Mofro, Summit, and Old Goat are all saying we should do the same for COVID vaccines. What I am wondering is why this Prof Sir Andrew Pollard guy, who apparently helped make the AstraZeneca vaccine, is telling me he disagrees with the stance of Mofro/Summit/Old Goat, et al?

When I dig in and try decipher why Sir Pollard thinks this way, I get:

"We haven't even managed to vaccinate everyone in Africa with one dose so we're certainly not going to get to a point where fourth doses for everyone is manageable."

He also states that at the current moment, he is not convinced the UK will ever need another booster shot, ever. He qualifies this statement by saying his opinion could change depending on what future variants emerge. And his statement is limited to the situation in the UK, not elsewhere.

[Percy Rideout]

Go back to the other thread and answer my question, intellectual pussy


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Was that the beginning of your pHD dissertation?

Your father is disappointed in you. That type of hurt knows no bounds. He probably called you a pussy too, which is why you are slinging the word in my direction, because I bet it hurt...

All of us here would rather have a beer with, and likely get along better with....Your dad instead of you.