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  1. #1
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    Summer Travel Recommendations Needed: Germany, Austria and Northern Italy

    My wife and I are heading to Europe for 12 days in late July, flying into and out of Munich. We've got a rental car and our plan is to drive south into Austria and the Dolomites, likely stopping in 3-4 different towns. Right now I'm thinking of spending a couple days in southern Germany, 3-4 in Austria, and the rest in northeastern Italy.

    Having just started the research process, I thought it would be a good idea to solicit ideas from the collective. Here's what we like:

    - Lots of hiking options (single day, not backpacking)
    - Natural scenic/landscape beauty for photography
    - Smaller, less crowded towns w/ multiple restaurant options
    - Cultural options for food, older architecture, etc
    - Not super expensive

    From a quick look, I'm thinking maybe Garmisch, somewhere in Austria, and then time split between Val di Fassa and somewhere else in northeastern Italy. Where else should we consider?

  2. #2
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    We did this by train last summer.
    Salzburg->Bad Gastein->(car train tunnel)->Mallnitz->Moetaller Glacier->Lienz->Sillian->San Candido/Innichen->Bressanone/Brixen->Ponte Gardena/Waidbruck->Selva di Val Gardena.

    Found a nice hotel, https://hotelechobadgastein.com/ 10 minute walk from the hot springs and lift base. Check out the Hexenhausl there. Lifts run making altitude hiking to huttes easy. Low key, inexpensive uncrowded lots of cool architecture and mountains.

    The Gastein torrent just below the hotel:


    View from our room :


    Horses and view up on the Stubnerkogel:


    In Selva di Gardena, we found http://www.la-tambra.com/ a great small hotel and the lift accessed hiking around there is amazing with bus connection to Sass Pordoi. Great food at the rifugios. The Dolomites in summer kick ass.

    Images may be dead: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ps-Summer-2018
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  3. #3
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    Summer Travel Recommendations Needed: Germany, Austria and Northern Italy

    How would you compare your time in Germany, Austria, and northern Italy? Would you have preferred to spend more time in one than the others? I’m leaning towards a week in Italy and split the rest between Germany and Austria.

    And yeah, picture links are broken. Must be Photobucket?

  4. #4
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    When I was living in Verona last year for a month in November, I rented a car to go up and see the Dolomites. I picked Arraba for a hotel, because it was on the Sella Ronda ski loop and also on a road biking loop that many do up there that I planned to drive. Also close to Cortina. I was not dissapointed. I booked a hotel room in a beautiful little village just four or five miles from Arraba proper, although its still considered Arraba, by the name of Albergo Alpino (the hotel). About 100 bucks a night with breakfast, great place. Just checked, they're a hundred a night in the winter, two, and have a shuttle down to the Arraba lifts. Good dinner, too. Great location for your exploring. I drove all over from that spot. Hiking and MTB trails all over, a few right out the door. Jezuz, its pretty there.
    Here's a pic of the village. Sorry for the quality, I downloaded a low res from Facebook.

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  5. #5
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    My mother lives in Selva in the winter so I've spent a good amount of time in the Dolomites. There are many ways to have a great trip there, but here are a few spots that stand out:

    Best Food/Rifugio (you'll need to make a reservation to stay many months in advance):

    http://www.fuciade.it/en/

    Best Lunch ( a michelin star spot that can only be accesses on foot: I recommend to osso bucco and kaiserschmarrn):

    https://modernfarmer.com/2014/05/ski...chwaige-italy/

    Best View/Deck/ (with access to WWI tunnels):


    https://www.rifugiolagazuoi.com/index_en.php

    Again, there are many good choices, but these 3 are all world class in their own way. They are in no way convenient to access, especially with respect to each other, but they are worth building a trip around

  6. #6
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    Here's a few better quality pics.

    Cortina valley. Cortina reminded me of Vail.

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    Val Gardena

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    This Massif has a name, I dunno. Basically the view if you turned 180 from the village picture I posted above.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This was late November of '17, only a few lifts open, a good storm blew through just about five days before. It was cold. Like teens cold.

  7. #7
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    Whoa, sweet pics Diamonds.

    I spent ~10 days in the Val Gardena area in October w/MTB. The area feels very bavarian, sound of music, etc. - doesn't seem like you're in Italy unless you venture into Trento. The landscape is stunning and it'd be impossible to pick a bad hike (although I much preferred the views on the Seceda/National Park side of the main valley). Lifts were closed when I was there so we spent most of our time exploring hiking trails on bikes. The layout is still pretty fresh in my memory if you have specific questions/want recs.



    For non-trail activities think a road ride on the Sella Ronde route would be super fun. Plenty of small(er) towns for pit stops, perfect roads, perfect grades. Also would be very fun in a fast car, as demonstrated by the 400+ Italians out for a group drive on one of the Sundays we were there.

    I also went to Innsbruck for a couple of days and the contrast to the Val Gardena/Selva area was immediate. Got a ticket for not having lights on my bike in the 0.25 miles between the train station and my hotel (full-on quota fill Mexican cop shakedown style). Basically rules and rule-following are a thing in Germany, and that colored my experience a bit. Still, it's a cool city with lots of things to look at (not really my thing but worth doing once).

  8. #8
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    Where did you ride around there? Did you happen to ride the Sellaronda MTB route? I'm definitely looking at doing that one day.

    Also, with regards to the Val Gardena area- did you find that to be a good centrally located spot for exploring the area? I'm thinking we'll probably split our time in the Dolomites between two towns, but if we can stay in one spot for a week and explore enough without having to drive a ton, then that might make sense too.

  9. #9
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Whoa, sweet pics Diamonds.
    Stolen from internet for effect.

    smmokan, I'd highly recommend spending a couple nights in more remote rifugios like to two I recommended. Sleeping and eating in style in a beautiful setting doesn't get old. In Val Gardena there are at least couple huts up in the Puez Odle national park: Rifugio Puez, and Rifugio Firenze. Haven't stayed in either as they're closed in the winter.

    As far as where to stay in Val Gardena, Selva is closer to the passes to other valleys, and closer to the trails that get you up high. It also costs a bit more than Ortisei which is 15 or so minutes down valley. Ortisei has a couple fantastic cheese/cured meat/wine shops, and a couple breweries. Santa Cristina, which is in between Selva and Ortisei, is perfectly nice, but I can't think of a reason I'd choose to stay there. If you stay in Selva and want pizza, I recommend the restaurant above the ice rink.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    smmokan, I'd highly recommend spending a couple nights in more remote rifugios like to two I recommended. Sleeping and eating in style in a beautiful setting doesn't get old. In Val Gardena there are at least couple huts up in the Puez Odle national park: Rifugio Puez, and Rifugio Firenze. Haven't stayed in either as they're closed in the winter.

    As far as where to stay in Val Gardena, Selva is closer to the passes to other valleys, and closer to the trails that get you up high. It also costs a bit more than Ortisei which is 15 or so minutes down valley. Ortisei has a couple fantastic cheese/cured meat/wine shops, and a couple breweries. Santa Cristina, which is in between Selva and Ortisei, is perfectly nice, but I can't think of a reason I'd choose to stay there. If you stay in Selva and want pizza, I recommend the restaurant above the ice rink.
    Duly noted. I'm leaning towards staying somewhere like Ortisei or Selva for 4-5 nights, then doing a couple of refugios for 1-2 nights each after that.

  13. #13
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    We based out of Selva, primarily because we thought it had the most potential for MTB (and we were limited to MTB, bus and train travel), but yes, I think it's a fairly centralized location. It has good access to the Sella Group area via Sella Pass. Selva is at the top end of the main valley, and my impression is that during the busy season the whole valley could be quite crowded. Our place was on the edge of town "Pension Jagdhof" (for reference) and was pretty quiet. Some exploring around the Sella Group (you could do this very efficiently with a car) might help you locate a more secluded spot.

    It's the type of area where you can get mesmerized by the spot you're in for 3 days, then venture out 5mi away, turn around, and say "WTF why didn't we check this out earlier?" - lots of cool corners to explore.

    RE riding. We spent much of our time in and around the valleys of the national park. The trail in the photo (my personal favorite) is off of the "Col de la Pieres" which we accessed via route 2B and a 4th class hike-a-bike. That style of riding requires some map study, trial and error and a healthy dose of hike with bike.

    There is some legit MTB singletrack, although I think the area is about 3-5yrs away from being truly MTB-accessible. It'd be worth your time to take advantage of the lift-served and get a run down "Freeride Ciampinoi" (drops from Sella Pass right into Selva) and "DoubleU" into "North Shore" (drops from Pordoi into Canazei). These would be 1-2hr jaunts - quick, easy, shreddy and euro shuttle-able. The best purpose-built MTB trails we found.

    RE Sella Ronde, it looks cool, but we bunged it up. Without the option of using lifts we planned our own route and it was our biggest fail of the trip. Strava says 32mi 10k day, and much of that was pushing and hiking with some road pedaling on either end. Our prior experience on the popular "MTB routes" was that they were mostly wide, mellow, doubletrack affairs. We tried for singletrack and while mostly successful, we got humbled on the Selle Ronde. The standard lift-served route is likely a stunner scenery-wise. No idea on the quality of the riding. Check it out and report back!
    Last edited by North; 12-30-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  14. #14
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    Also when researching your trip, it's helpful to know that everything in that area has both Italian and German names. Selva is also Wolkenstien, Ponte Gardena is also Waidbruck etc. Probably obvious but easy to tie your brain in knots juggling a bunch of foreign names.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    How would you compare your time in Germany, Austria, and northern Italy? Would you have preferred to spend more time in one than the others? I’m leaning towards a week in Italy and split the rest between Germany and Austria.
    Bad Gastein was really relaxing and beautiful in a brokedown palace sort of way. The goulash at the Hexenhausl was massive and tasty but didn't really sample a lot of other food there aside from the charcuterie up at the huttes. The Krampus masks at the Hexenhausl are really cool. The spa is a little weird in that the hottest pool is indoors, naked only. Sort of a Teutonic thing. Walking the torrent down inot the old town from the hot springs is really cool.



    I loved the train ride from Bad Gastein to Ponte Gardena/Waidbruck; incredible scenery.

    Selva was much busier than Bad Gastein. It's the furthest up valley from the West side of the Sella. From the hotel we walked most days to lifts to ride and walk between rifugios and other lift systems.
    One day we took the bus up to the Pordoi; it was easy, a little crowded. I guess that the number of people there makes things a bit more hectic.

    We really liked the restaurant below the Garni La Tambra and the Costabella lift called La Bula.

    The mountain biking scene is huDge there with most lift served activity we saw on the Dantercepies and Fraro lifts over the Passo Gardena.

    This is under Dantercepies:


    The food is better in Eataly and the Sella is a strikingly beautiful locale. I guess I'd opt to spend a little more time there but the people density can be a bit much. But the people density creates a lot of resources for food and lifts. This place has a 1 star Michelin restaurant which was great: https://www.alpenroyal.com/en/ .

    Travelling by train, my interest was piqued by Innichen, Sillian and Mallnitz.

    Innichen train station:


    And yeah, picture links are broken. Must be Photobucket?
    No I skyffed them off my Instagram @sirarcsalot which stamps the images with a time so that they expire. You can scroll down through there to see some.
    Last edited by Buster Highmen; 01-01-2019 at 02:39 PM.
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  16. #16
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    IMHO Berchtesgaden >>> Garmisch. YMMV.

  17. #17
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    Oooh, good to know... I’m looking for a place to check out close to Salzburg and that definitely fits the bill. Gracias.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Oooh, good to know... I’m looking for a place to check out close to Salzburg and that definitely fits the bill. Gracias.


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    The whole valley up from Salzberg to Gasteinertal is beautiful. Just keep going south through the train tunnel to Mallnitz, then drive or train along the IT/Austria border.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    - Not super expensive
    You'll be pleased with the prices in the Dolomites. While not cheap, there is great value. DM me for details on Alta Badia. I see no reason to select one of these valleys over another based on anything other than ease of transit. They will all have great food and unbelievable hiking/riding. Sleep easy no matter what you decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post

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    This Massif has a name, I dunno. Basically the view if you turned 180 from the village picture I posted above.
    Think that's the Sassongher.
    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Ortisei has a couple fantastic cheese/cured meat/wine shops, and a couple breweries
    They shouldn't be hard to track down, but any details?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
    IMHO Berchtesgaden >>> Garmisch. YMMV.
    For skiing?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    You'll be pleased with the prices in the Dolomites. While not cheap, there is great value. DM me for details on Alta Badia. I see no reason to select one of these valleys over another based on anything other than ease of transit. They will all have great food and unbelievable hiking/riding. Sleep easy no matter what you decide.
    Think that's the Sassongher.
    They shouldn't be hard to track down, but any details?
    For skiing?
    Breweries:

    https://www.monpier-gherdeina.it/en/cover

    https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaura...lto_Adige.html

    Meat cheese shops are both right off the main square/ bus stop at the bottom of the pedestrian area. The one closer to the main road also has excellent bread. The one at the beginning of the pedestrian street that leads up to the Cavalino Bianco has a lot of wine and grappa in the basement. Free grappa tastings are common.

    Another recommendations in Selva: Order the bacon, egg and potatoes at Ciampac, the restaurant at the beginning of Vallunga. It's perfect. Sit in the right sport outside in the winter and you might get to watch biathlon practice.

  21. #21
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    Oberammergau in Germany is exactly what you’re looking for. Near Garmisch stay in the small Austrian hamlet of Berwang. Excellent light hiking countryside is beautiful. For Switzerland I would think about staying in either interlocken or Grindelwald. In Italy, Meran is very cool. If you get further north in Germany then Munich, go to Bamberg. I live there for two years and is absolutely great. Another great town in southern Bavaria that is not full of tourists but has miles and miles of great mountain hiking is Ted ligery’s Favorite, Oberhoch. We have spent at least 10 winters and summers there. Stay at the Sport und Kür Hotel in the neighboring town of Hindelang
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  22. #22
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    As of now, it looks like this is the travel plan:

    - Spend a day or two in Kochel, Germany after landing in Munich
    - Split 7-8 nights in Italy between Val Gardena area and Cortina d'Ampezzo, hopefully with two nights at Rifugio Fuciade mixed in
    - Hit Berchtesgaden for a day or two after leaving Italy on the way back to Munich before departing

    It looks like there are more photo spots than I'd be able to tackle in my lifetime up there, so I'm pretty damn pumped to say the least. Plus, mixing in a big MTB ride like the Sellaronda is just icing on the cake.

  23. #23
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    Excellent plan. As much as I love Austria, spending more time in and around the Dolomites is worth it. It is very unique. While all the various alps are beautiful, places like St. Anton or Ischgl are just really cool mountains, but mountains none the less. The Dolomites is kind of like Zion spread out with great little towns and great food and wine throughout. A week hiking, bike, eating and drink there will not be a wrong thing to do.

    Salzberg is a cool city if time allows, but Europe is full of cool cities.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
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  24. #24
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    I spent August in the dolomites and went to fuciade many times. My mother in law (well exMIL) is from Predazzo so I have spent many months there in summer and winter and it is really beautiful. I lived in Munich for a year and I can tell you there is a reason you see lots of German plates in the dolomites. Better weather. Better food. Better mountains.
    The mountain biking is not that good. Trail running and hiking is incredible. Do some via ferrata. If you know anything just buy the gear and google places. If you are fit try to run the translagorai from Passo rolle to valmaggiore or more. That is the best because no ski areas and more isolated. I know the val di femme and fassa area well and can give specifics if you want just message.
    If you go to fuciade in passo San pellegrino you can do the ferrata along that spine. Cima uomo etc. Also take the tram on the other side to col margherita and then hike up to cima bocche and further. I ran for 60k vertical feet in August. And I have 3 young kids with me half the time so was hiking with them then running on their off days.
    Damn I miss that place. Long story.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    For skiing?
    In July?

    Bad Toelz area is ok. If you have some time go skinny dipping in the Osterseen (Easter lakes) that have a high peat content and are supposedly good for the vapours. Chiemsee is pretty cool, especially the summer residences of crazy King Ludwig who built most of the Rococo shit down there, like Neu Schwanstein (Disney Castle/Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.) If you're in the mood for a great beer go to Kloster Andechs on the Ammersee and get your christian drunk on.


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