Do I need new liners?

**Luke Campbell** · 11-04-2019, 03:12 PM

I purchased a pair of Cochise 120 last year and I love the boots but I feel like my feet move a bit now that I’ve wore them a few days. My toes do brush the end of the liner when in skiing stance however when I’m skiing I feel like my foot needs a higher volume liner to secure it. Would a HV liner solve this issue? Am I being to picky? Would a thicker insole raise my foot a bit to compensate for the space? Just looking for options to dial in the fit at this point.
Thanks in advance for your help.

**gregL** · 11-04-2019, 03:56 PM

Pretty much every decent boot packs out and gets roomier for the first 30-40 hours of its life. That's 6-8 days of skiing for most people. If they are super comfortable in the shop, you'll likely be swimming in them in a month or two. A high volume aftermarket liner will help, but it costs ~ $200. Adding Bontex shims under your liner is probably the best solution without buying a new boot - go to the shop where you bought them and ask for a few. They come in 1mm and 2mm thicknesses and you can combine them to get 3mm; start with 1mm and see how it feels. If you don't have a footbed get one as well.

**Luke Campbell** · 11-04-2019, 05:20 PM

My thought otherwise was to get a pair of pro wrap+

**blackalps** · 11-04-2019, 05:29 PM

the Cochise is really bad about this. me and a few of my buddies picked them up last year on a discount, we all ended up with the same problem. I would personally go straight for a dense HV or wrap liner, it just gets worse from here on out.

**SkiLyft** · 11-04-2019, 07:25 PM

You’re in luck — group buy just opened. Gitsum.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**Luke Campbell** · 11-04-2019, 07:40 PM

Saw that. I’ll prolly grab a pair.

**vegas** · 11-04-2019, 09:54 PM

going to try intuitions.

bought a pair of new salomons when i got back into skiing for $500+ or whatever they go for, plus much more as time went on. their boot liners suck. after multiple 'custom fits', multiple boot fitters, and the boots almost always changing and often hurting, over the course for a few years, i will not buy new boots again. bought a pair of used $50 langes and going straight to a boot fitter for liners and fitting. going to try to get new liners for the salomons to. hope the new process works out better. ski boots suck.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 11-05-2019, 11:07 AM

Did you shell fit the boot?

**XXX-er** · 11-05-2019, 01:06 PM

IME a pwr wrap should fit almost any boot/shell/foot

the big question might be what volume

**tenB** · 11-05-2019, 01:11 PM

Did you trying adding insole shims? For $5 it might be worth trying before giving up on near new liners

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 01:25 PM

I can fit 2 fingers behind my heel with my toes just barely touching the front of the shell.

**XXX-er** · 11-05-2019, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Luke Campbell

I can fit 2 fingers behind my heel with my toes just barely touching the front of the shell.

I don't like the finger thing it might be fine for a real boot fitter who knows shit but a more accurate gauge is to use the base of a sharpie felt pen which is exactly 15mm

but it sounds like your shell is too big

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I don't like the finger thing it might be fine for a real boot fitter who knows shit but a more accurate gauge is to use the base of a sharpie felt pen which is exactly 15mm

but it sounds like your shell is too big

Unfortunately I think u may be right, that’s why I thought a HV liner would solve the problem vs selling a barely used pair of boots and lose a lot of $ on them.

**XXX-er** · 11-05-2019, 01:37 PM

NO

You are trying to make chicken salad out of chicken poo

if the shell is the wrong size/wrong shape it will eventualy pack out

**fatnslow** · 11-05-2019, 01:42 PM

When you try your liner on removed from your shell do you have excessive height, width or length ?As mentioned previously add a bontex shim for the excessive height volume and maybe try adding an adhesive butterfly type pad around your achilles to help lock your heel down.

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 02:00 PM

I have a feeling I got 1 size too big and now am screwed.

**XXX-er** · 11-05-2019, 02:12 PM

that's ^^ pretty common to buy too big and/or wrong shell

scarpa actualy has a 9-14mm rectangular guage to put behind the heel and measure, a good boot fitter can probably just about look at your foot and say thats the wrong fucking size and possibly the wrong fucking shell for your foot

which is what you might pay full price for when you buy a boot

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 03:11 PM

When I try the liner on outside the boot it actually fits pretty well although it’s not snug. I may first try new insoles as the current ones are quite thin.

**XXX-er** · 11-05-2019, 03:16 PM

You can try taking up space in the shell

but at the end of the day ... the shell sounds too big

if its too big maybe its also the wrong shape ?

but you can get into it cuz its too big ?

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 04:23 PM

Not sure as obviously I’m not a boot fitter. I did contact the shop I got them out and they want me to bring them in and are going to try to figure it out or put me in a different boat if necessary.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 11-05-2019, 04:41 PM

It's a bit big. I go with 1 index finger behind my bigger foot or about a half inch. That puts my foot that's a half size smaller at a finger and a half, or about .75".
A high volume or size larger intuition will help at first, but you'll be back in the same boat fairly quickly, especially if it ever gets warm where you ski.
If you're touring, you'll be back in the same place after a few hours, probably.

Who sold you the boots? Did they do a shell fit?
Any decent fitting shop should have dowels that size by their fitting bench. If they don't, you may want to move on. Getting your own finger in there and measuring accurately is hard. Getting someone else's in there is a little easier, but the best is the dowel. It doesn't lie.
Don't go over a half inch on the bigger foot for a performance fit.

**Luke Campbell** · 11-05-2019, 04:48 PM

No touring at all. Ski in Michigan and 1-2 trips west each year.

Moosejaw in Grand Rapids MI. No they didn’t shell fit them.

**Djongo Unchained** · 11-05-2019, 05:52 PM

You might PM Skiing-in-Jackson as he is an accomplished bootfitter and can likely tell you some things to help.
~~~~~
The HV liners are less for filling space in an oversized shell, more for filling space for a proper shell combined with chicken legs.
You may be able to achieve the fit you like with shims, takes some experience though; Taking up space vertically by adding a thicker insole pad can often just complicate the instep fit. Now the top hurts.
A 2 finger fit is just hard to dial unless you're competent with a less snug fit. If you have to crank the fuck out of it, that's gonna create an issue somewhere.
The Intuition is the way for most solid skiers, or the Zipfit. Warmer, perfect shape, easy in/out when damp/dry quickly. Not hard to shape either or make minor fit tweaks.
Boots are your Master Key to skiing. Don't lowball yerself.