Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[summit]

So we shouldn't try Universal Healthcare because it would be too difficult and we would probably fuck it up! There's that American Exceptionalism the conservatives are always talking about!

Americans are exceptionally bad at government.

[CarlMega]

Americans are exceptionally bad at government.

While true, it's worth calling out that is mostly because there's a critical mass of people deliberating sabotaging it to make a point or something.

[Name Redacted]

Americans are exceptionally bad at government.

No shit, however, they are really good at convincing the public to go along with it.

[dan_pdx]

No it doesn't. The gap between those and can and those that can't will continue to grow. There will always be a scrum for public resources to address the free option for those that can't, but what they get will always be an inferior product (education, healthcare, etc) which will leave this portion of soceity unable to move up without heroics. Our elected leaders will ensure they will get just enough to bump along and avoid insurrection. Check back 10, 20 or 50 years from now and it will still be some flavor of this.

Here's some context - only shows up to 2011, but I don't think the trend is any different after that point.

From this blog: http://www.dartblog.com/data/2015/02/011924.php

Meanwhile, the population of college-age students is going to shrink: https://hechingerreport.org/college-...the-year-2025/

So yeah, current trend where the increase in tuition is vastly higher than increases in wages can't continue: some colleges are going to have to compete by offering better value or die. Those that opt to compete on value will hopefully shake things up in a positive way. We'll also have a new Secretary of Education who presumably will be less inclined to provide government-backed loans for low-quality institutions.

[summit]

Here's some context - only shows up to 2011, but I don't think the trend is any different after that point.

From this blog: http://www.dartblog.com/data/2015/02/011924.php

Meanwhile, the population of college-age students is going to shrink: https://hechingerreport.org/college-...the-year-2025/

So yeah, current trend where the increase in tuition is vastly higher than increases in wages can't continue: some colleges are going to have to compete by offering better value or die. Those that opt to compete on value will hopefully shake things up in a positive way. We'll also have a new Secretary of Education who presumably will be less inclined to provide government-backed loans for low-quality institutions.

Don't think it's Pell Grants... it is the endless supply of non-dischargable student loans combined with societal pressure, costly "student" experience" components of tuition, and credentialism.

[Meathelmet]

Europe for example doesn't have government health care.
Doctors, labs, hospitals are private

Everyone gets a free medical insurance policy, which posts 70 percent then you can buy a private policy to cover the rest. I'm giving France as an example.

The actual fuck are you talking about????

No.

Giving France as an example for the whole Europe...Dude...?

Seriously?

[bodywhomper]

The actual fuck are you talking about????

No.

Giving France as an example for the whole Europe...Dude...?

Seriously?

Don’t leave us hanging. I’m ignorant and not trolling.

I heard in April that residents in Holland were being placed in rolls way ahead of their training and “pay grade” getting ready for the onslaught.

[beer30]

Some what true but not fully. Employer picks up a portion and employees the rest.

Europe for example doesn't have government health care.
Doctors, labs, hospitals are private

Everyone gets a free medical insurance policy, which posts 70 percent then you can buy a private policy to cover the rest. I'm giving France as an example.

It's very similar to medicate.

And yeah, like in medicate, the government has a list of procedures and how much hospitals can get reimbursed.
Not that hard, except for brainwashing and lobbying by hospitals and drug companies in the US.

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[DJSapp]

Back on point: CA is on the verge of shutting down again. Regions will fall under a 3 week stay at home order once the region falls under 15% available ICU beds. 4 of the 5 regions are expected to hit this threshold in early December, and the San Francisco region will likely cross the line by mid December. Hope the Thanksgiving turkey was worth the three week time out idiots. Glad I bought TP and paper towels last week.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/us/lo...vid/index.html

[bodywhomper]

DJSapp, good luck with your FIL...

question for the math wizzes and those with their nose in the literature:
population 98k
14-day avg case testing positivity: 16%
new daily cases over a 14-day avg: 37.6

what's the current understanding of the range of actual positive cases in the population? Or what the range of actual new cases compared to a daily reporting based on the positivity?

I saw this article, it made my brain hurt, and I am heading into my 4th double shift-day in a row (buried/busy and tired): https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...0208504v1.full

thanks

[splat]

Let's not even mention 7 million dollar football coaches.

Indeed. That's something that has irritated me since my first article for the college newspaper uncovered how all the money from the minor sports that thousands enjoyed got reallocated to the fucking football program. I pretty much took down the entire athletic department while living in the jock dorm. In most worlds, I woulda got my ass kicked and lynched, but not there. Muthafuckas never read shit.

Dump football and televise death row inmates fighting for cigarettes and whisky. There's no fucking future in the money spent on college gladiator sports. That money could be better spent on pursuits that help society and money more evenly allocated to benefit more students. As I said in my article then - college football really only serves the vicarious reminiscence of jock alumni. WTF is up with multi-million dollar salaries for coaches??? How many football players will find the next Covid cure? Broker peace in the Middle East?? Find a workable coexistence with Russia and China?? Develop anti-gravity cars?? Not a fucking one of them.

[The AD]

Indeed. That's something that has irritated me since my first article for the college newspaper uncovered how all the money from the minor sports that thousands enjoyed got reallocated to the fucking football program. I pretty much took down the entire athletic department while living in the jock dorm. In most worlds, I woulda got my ass kicked and lynched, but not there. Muthafuckas never read shit.

Dump football and televise death row inmates fighting for cigarettes and whisky. There's no fucking future in the money spent on college gladiator sports. That money could be better spent on pursuits that help society and money more evenly allocated to benefit more students. As I said in my article then - college football really only serves the vicarious reminiscence of jock alumni. WTF is up with multi-million dollar salaries for coaches??? How many football players will find the next Covid cure? Broker peace in the Middle East?? Find a workable coexistence with Russia and China?? Develop anti-gravity cars?? Not a fucking one of them.

I was reading about the history of the NCAA recently and thought it was interesting that people have been complaining about the commercialization of college sport since the 1800s. This quote is interesting:

In 1929, the highly respected Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Education issued a significant report regarding intercollegiate athletics and made the following finding:[A] change of values is needed in a field that is sodden with the commercial and the material and the vested interests that these forces have created. Commercialism in college athletics must be diminished and college sport must rise to a point where it is es-teemed primarily and sincerely for the opportunities it affords to mature youth.3'

Just as true today as it was nearly a century ago.

[old goat]

Oh, well, you now touched on another topic that America should be ashamed of. How much does that education cost? And how much debt are they carrying into their careers because of that? While college administrators and presidents make seven figure salaries.

Besides, you say nurses are making a "shitload" of money, so why arent there millions fighting for these jobs?

There are a lot more people trying to get into nursing school than there are spots for them. Not nearly enough spots for nursing students--partly because practicing nurses make a lot more money than professors of nursing.



DJ--OChem isn't what breaks them. Taking OChem on the same schedule as all the other premeds is what breaks them. The smart move is to take OChem in summer school with all the kids who flunked it the first time. Sciences graded on a curve is a killer if you don't play it smart.

[The AD]

Fucking self-centered morans:
Couple Tested Positive for Coronavirus, Police Say, but They Still Boarded a Plane

A couple were arrested and charged with reckless endangerment after they boarded a flight to Hawaii from San Francisco last Sunday, despite knowing that they had tested positive for the coronavirus, the police said.

The couple, Wesley Moribe, 41, and Courtney Peterson, 46, of Wailua, Hawaii, were tested for the coronavirus in Seattle as part of Safe Travels Hawaii, a program that aims to limit the spread of the virus through testing and tracing.

During a stopover in San Francisco, they were told to isolate and not to fly home because their results had come back positive, the police said.

The couple, however, ignored the instructions and boarded a United Airlines flight home, “placing the passengers of the flight in danger of death,” the Kauai police said. The flight from San Francisco to Hawaii typically takes more than five hours.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/u...ronavirus.html

[Rideski]

Didn’t know nurses made that much. Glad to hear.

—


Story in local news says:
“We have observed I think around 300 of those instances here in the state of individuals who had a previous positive test and then tested positive again," Dr. Rachel Herlihy an epidemiologist with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE). “I think there’s, unfortunately, lots of things we still don’t know about reinfection with this virus.”

[old goat]

The actual fuck are you talking about????

No.

Giving France as an example for the whole Europe...Dude...?

Seriously?

As my German dentist friend explained it to me you buy private insurance if you can afford it. If not the govt pays all or some. Everyone must have insurance--if you don't sign up they assign you. Doctors and hospitals are private. It's fairly similar to the ACA except for the automatic universal coverage. To the best of my recollection all of the Western European countries have a fairly similar system with some degree of public funding paying for private medical care, except for GB. And Finland I believe, if you consider that Western Europe.

There is some degree of accident in how a country's health care system is set up. In the US company funded health insurance was a reaction to wage controls during WWII--insurance was a benefit to entice workers since companies couldn't compete on wages. In GB the NHS grew out of the system of govt run hospitals established to care for victims of the Blitz. The biggest obstacle to major reform of the US system is that while far too many people are uninsured or underinsured, most people have more or less average coverage through work, and the senior voting bloc has Medicare. It's tough to get politicans behind a massive, expensive redo of the health care system to mainly benefit the 8.5% or so that are still uninsured.

[old goat]

Back on point: CA is on the verge of shutting down again. Regions will fall under a 3 week stay at home order once the region falls under 15% available ICU beds. 4 of the 5 regions are expected to hit this threshold in early December, and the San Francisco region will likely cross the line by mid December. Hope the Thanksgiving turkey was worth the three week time out idiots. Glad I bought TP and paper towels last week.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/us/lo...vid/index.html

Ya don't s'pose the 3 week period has anything to do with xmas--new years, do ya? The atheist/socialist war on xmas continues. I expect Trump to issue a fatwa any day.

[Benny Profane]

As my German dentist friend explained it to me you buy private insurance if you can afford it. If not the govt pays all or some. Everyone must have insurance--if you don't sign up they assign you. Doctors and hospitals are private. It's fairly similar to the ACA except for the automatic universal coverage. To the best of my recollection all of the Western European countries have a fairly similar system with some degree of public funding paying for private medical care, except for GB. And Finland I believe, if you consider that Western Europe.

There is some degree of accident in how a country's health care system is set up. In the US company funded health insurance was a reaction to wage controls during WWII--insurance was a benefit to entice workers since companies couldn't compete on wages. In GB the NHS grew out of the system of govt run hospitals established to care for victims of the Blitz. The biggest obstacle to major reform of the US system is that while far too many people are uninsured or underinsured, most people have more or less average coverage through work, and the senior voting bloc has Medicare. It's tough to get politicans behind a massive, expensive redo of the health care system to mainly benefit the 8.5% or so that are still uninsured.

8.5? Are you sure of that number? Really? And you're assuming that most working people even have health insurance, and, if they do, how well insured are they? A 5000 deductible on a 35,000 annual gross is quite a hit.
Then we're talking about the unemployed under age 65, who are incredibly vulnerable, because they're old enough to have serious issues after 50, but essentially unhireable at a decent income at that age if laid off. Woe to them if cancer arrives.

[summit]

Didn’t know nurses made that much. Glad to hear.

It varies WIDELY by region. California is top pay. CO nurses average less than what was claimed for a starting wage in CA. NY is also a known high pay area while the South and places like UT are known lower pay. Nurses do get shift differentials for nights, weekends, and holidays.

I think base wage for a new nurse in CO is 45K-60K before shift differentials, depending where you work. An experienced nurse is gonna make 60-70K before differentials or any overtime. Nurses aren't getting rich without OT, nights, and weekends. Then again, there a lot of jobs you can make bank if you pull OT, nights, and weekends that don't involve death, infectious disease, poop, blood, vomit, sputum, and abusive patients.

[Meadow Skipper]

8.5? Are you sure of that number? Really? And you're assuming that most working people even have health insurance, and, if they do, how well insured are they? A 5000 deductible on a 35,000 annual gross is quite a hit.

The googles, dude.
https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-267.html

• In 2018, 8.5 percent of people, or 27.5 million, did not have health insurance at any point during the year. The uninsured rate and number of uninsured increased from 2017 (7.9 percent or 25.6 million).

Read that page. The 91.5% includes Medicare and Medicaid.

[dan_pdx]

I know this shit will be old news to the people here, but it seems relevant to share at this juncture:



source: https://pharmaceuticalintelligence.c...lthcare-costs/

[Rideski]

That’s a good segue to point out that there’s a ton of self employed people paying through the nose for shitty high deductible insurance that are not in the 8.5 uninsured.

[glademaster]

That’s a good segue to point out that there’s a ton of self employed people paying through the nose for shitty high deductible insurance that are not in the 8.5 uninsured.

Why the fuck do you think I work in the public sector? Because I like it? Benefits. Full stop.

[Benny Profane]

The googles, dude.
https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-267.html



Read that page. The 91.5% includes Medicare and Medicaid.

Well, ok, but then there's the underinsured, as I said. Obamacare is such bullshit, because it lowered the absolute uninsured number, but 10 grand or more a year for crap coverage sucks.

[glademaster]

Let's see...

In CA average annual wage for a RN is around 110k/year with OT pay, and you'd better believe they're getting it this year. Nurses start at 86k plus OT. Common benefits include tuition reimbursement, license reimbursement, 401k, 403b. What's your argument again?
https://www.indeed.com/career/regist...se/salaries/CA


Maybe people just don't want to work with the sick, injured and dying because it is depressing. Maybe they want a regular work schedule because working graveyard isn't for them. It is demanding and there a point that throwing more money at it doesn't solve the problem.

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That's barely a living wage in many parts of California. Hell, $100k/year is barely a living wage in lots of parts of this country, and I would argue it's not reasonable compensation for people who deal with as much shit as nurses do. There are plenty of Plans Examiners/Inspectors who make that kind of money, and let me tell you, my job is a lot easier than a nurses.