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Thread: Patent Licensing Advice
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10-13-2017, 02:05 PM #1
Patent Licensing Advice
I'm working on a very cool patent for lossless digital sound. We're calling it Virtual Vinyl.
The current standards for CD/mpX, flac, etc have harmonic losses when recording sound. We have a way around that.
The patent was granted last week. We have supporting proof of concept.
We have a patent lawyer who is giving us advice, but we're all complete babes in the woods about how to go about doing the licensing, and monetization.
We have all the help we need right now in terms of marketing, grammy winning ad art, the tech stuff and a company formed, biz license, etc.
But we could use some suggestions about how to go about making license agreements.
TGR, despite being an occasional font of stupidity, often has some great wisdom. So, if it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate some constructive advice.
Update:
Last edited by Buster Highmen; 06-04-2018 at 03:03 PM.
Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:12 PM #2Funky But Chic
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I got nothing, except to say, very cool, and congrats!
What color A-Star do you think you'll buy?
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10-13-2017, 02:15 PM #3
I think its more important now to get it out there and have it be recognized as a superior standard while maintaining sole control of the format/encoding, and worry about licensing down the road.
$0.02Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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10-13-2017, 02:15 PM #4
Options:
0) Sell outright, no strings.
1) License
A. Exclusively.
I) Royalties.
II) Allow or deny sublicense (transitivity) with constraints.
III) Require product development and sales.
B) Nonexclusively
I) Royalties
II) Require product development and sales.
2) Product Development Participation
A) Liability limits.
B) Hours limits.
C) Pay minimum.
D) Percentage of any improvements/changes outside of patent coverage.
3) Inclusion
A) Everyone in the company gets a slice.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:16 PM #5
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10-13-2017, 02:19 PM #6
Well, yeah, but we're a bunch of old goats the local tech giants have replaced by h1bsters and we've been around the block.
Everyone who has read it and understands how this shit works has their eyes pop out. It's pretty basic and a great idea: we don't do a2d conversion on record of the sound.
We have proof of concept running on an Arduino board and win32, but we all agree we don't want to make a product our of it and deal with all the beancounters, VC clowns and financial suckjackals (no offense to those of you in the business).Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:31 PM #7Registered User
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How much time/capital/equipment/mfg would be required to make a prototype version to shop to your target partners ? If this technology is really a step ahead of current tech it might be worth the trouble to show it in action and really get the bidding war to escalate. Be careful how/who you shop this to since tech vultures will fuck you in a second and dare you to sue. Unless you have an extra $500K kicking around to go after money against a corporate entity walk guarded and be paranoid until actual contracts are signed.
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10-13-2017, 02:36 PM #8
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10-13-2017, 02:36 PM #9
It's patented and we have a well known local tech patent lawyer, so I'm hoping the idea is secure.
Again, any audio engineer who has seen it bugs out, it clearly doesn't cut out the 3rd order harmonics like all other digital formats.
So, while I greatly appreciate your suggestion, I'm specifically asking about what should be put into a licensing agreement and for what should we look in terms of getting shafted.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:38 PM #10
Thanks, we already have a few of the local tech giants interested and I'll follow up should the big A go unsourced.
But right now, we're just brainstorming on how this shit works and we really don't know anything about these agreements. As usual, I'm not convinced one has to be a rocket scientist to add something to the conversation.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:41 PM #11
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10-13-2017, 02:46 PM #12Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 02:47 PM #13
Stoked for you, B.
Not smart enough to offer advice on licensing, just a thumbs up.
Don't let anyone steal your shit.
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10-13-2017, 02:58 PM #14
Thanks!
Not smart enough to offer advice on licensing, just a thumbs up.
If you were in our shoes, what would you ask for, how would you structure such an agreement?
Can you add anything simple and reasonable to the above outline?
Imagine you had a magic widget you invented that had a lot of market potential. What would you ask for? You of all people don't get an "I'm too stupid" hall pass.
Don't let anyone steal your shit.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 03:14 PM #15
Not knowing what your invention actually is, but having the impression that may have wide-ranging applications, I would posit the following because long-term value may very well be greater than current (i.e., selling now, outright):
Exclusive license with one of the big dogs capable of developing the technology further and making it "market-ready", along with the right to grant sublicenses. Let them deal with all the sublicensing drek. Ensure that your team (you have a company, an LLC, right?) receives pass-through royalties on all sublicenses. Have termination clauses baked into the license so that you can kill the deal if the licensee doesn't perform (i.e., doesn't have a product in the market in a timely fashion without good reason, etc.)
I dunno about this industry, but consider asking for upfront payment, full patent cost reimbursement, product development milestone payment (every time they hit a milestone, they've de-risked the technology, making it increasing likely that it will be a commercial success, and even more valuable, and your company ought to benefit from that increased value), and running royalties for the life of the patent.
These are just some initial thoughts. Sounds like you may have a platform technology, which means that it can several or more uses, ergo more sales. There's far, far more to it. If your patent attorney is any good, s/he can put you in touch with a crackerjack business/contracts lawyer. I may be able to get you some time with someone from DLH Piper in Seattle.
Were it me, I would serioussaurously look into a startup company to continue with proof-of-concept development for different applications if that's possible. If not, that is, applications are limited, then exclusive license (vide supra).Daniel Ortega eats here.
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10-13-2017, 03:17 PM #16Registered User
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I am pretty sure Lee Lau does this shit
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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10-13-2017, 03:21 PM #17
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10-13-2017, 03:23 PM #18Head down, push foreword
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Best of luck! FYI Numark has a DJ platform with that same name.
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10-13-2017, 03:28 PM #19
That's our perception: this can supplant all other digital music formats and provide the fidelity of vinyl. It's fucking huDge.
The idea is basically to represent sound by mechanical information. For example, when one plays a vinyl record, the needle in the groove goes up and down and left and right. The idea is to trap that mechanical information and then the output of reading that information (on play) would drive the signal just the way a needle did.
All the other mechanisms basically use a bunch of digital information to approximate a sound wave which always chops off some portion of the curve or supplants the original signal with some quadratic or cubic curve fit between sample points.
The patent is more complicated, but that's the idea.
Exclusive license with one of the big dogs capable of developing the technology further and making it "market-ready", along with the right to grant sublicenses. Let them deal with all the sublicensing drek. Ensure that your team (you have a company, an LLC, right?) receives pass-through royalties on all sublicenses. Have termination clauses baked into the license so that you can kill the deal if the licensee doesn't perform (i.e., doesn't have a product in the market in a timely fashion without good reason, etc.) .
I dunno about this industry, but consider asking for upfront payment, full patent cost reimbursement, product development milestone payment (every time they hit a milestone, they've de-risked the technology, making it increasing likely that it will be a commercial success, and even more valuable, and your company ought to benefit from that increased value), and running royalties for the life of the patent.
These are just some initial thoughts. Sounds like you may have a platform technology, which means that it can several or more uses, ergo more sales. There's far, far more to it. If your patent attorney is any good, s/he can put you in touch with a crackerjack business/contracts lawyer. I may be able to get you some time with someone from DLH Piper in Seattle.
Were it me, I would serioussaurously look into a startup company to continue with proof-of-concept development for different applications if that's possible. If not, that is, applications are limited, then exclusive license (vide supra).
The problem with a startup is that 2 of us helped get msft going back in the day and have been through the startup grind and got shafted by msft.
So we're really of the mindset to do the dog and pony show making noised on the Arduino board and technical demonstrations of the idea, but don't want to get VC money and all that to actually launch a product, the VirtualVinyl pod.
For clarity, let me note, it's not my patent, it's a friend of mines, I just did the work with the lawyers and patent office recently and wrote the code that drives the proof of concept framework.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 03:54 PM #20
Nice B, really hoping good fortune smiles your way.
Move upside and let the man go through...
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10-13-2017, 03:58 PM #21
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10-13-2017, 04:00 PM #22
Beat me to it.
Find the best partner who already has the mkt and go for the best deal. Strike while the iron is hot.
Good luck.
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10-13-2017, 04:01 PM #23jgb@etree Guest
I have quite a bit of experience with lossless digital audio, but am a bit confused by what you are claiming. Lossless compression algorithms have been around for a while now and a true lossless algorithm/codec (flac, shn, etc) is simply taking a prexisting waveform and compressing that waveform to make it smaller and it can then be decompressed and will be an absolutely identical copy of the original uncompressed wave.
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10-13-2017, 04:03 PM #24Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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10-13-2017, 04:05 PM #25
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