To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[summit]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of those have been eradicated. Maybe Diphtheria was close but then wasn't there a resurgence? And isn't that caused by bacteria?
Also how many of those have existing prophylactics and/or treatments that are safe?
Flu is the closest thing (respiratory virus) and probably won't ever be eradicated.

Who said eradication? Most vaccine preventable illnesses have not been eradicated. Only Smallpox. Potential for eradication is not the reason we have vaccines. But it is a good thing because then you don't need the vaccine anymore.

Vaccines reduce transmission, morbidity, and mortality.

[The AD]

I think a lot of us would settle for Covid not killing a few million people per year worldwide.

[ex-powderbroker]

did you go to sleep in a different century and just wake up?

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

[Buster Highmen]

The reason I bring this up is that I think a lot of people have unreasonable expectations of what a covid vax is capable of and might be used to push for mandates and/or vax passports.

Yes, the stupid is strong.
It doesn't help to hold up eradication as a rationale.

I don't think anyone who's been paying attention to anything other than Fox would think so. Virtually every other news source and the government stressed simply trying to buffer the effect so the strain on the health system is spread out. I don't think there's been any other serious argument.

Lots of the stupid though.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Dumb dad should be banned. Why isn’t his post count going up? He’s only here to sow mistrust and spread misinformation.


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[SumJongGuy]

Dumb dad should be banned. Why isn’t his post count going up? He’s only here to sow mistrust and spread misinformation.


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Russian troll farm?

[skiJ]

yeah (yes), I will give him credit for the (subtle) troll...

drop in a couple of terms like 'eradicate' and 'prophylactic' , and then
backpedal, claiming he wasn't claiming vaccination requires eradication...

well, there have been half a dozen earlier who have claimed w/o similar effectiveness, ...


as above,
Reduced morbidity, Reduced mortality ( And reduced transmission ) --

so the proverbial pot gets stirred...


I do admire the restraint several of you show in responding to so many of these posts - Thank you. ! MUnicorn, LSL, Multi- ( you, too, Summit )


with Respect. tj

[jackattack]

I'm right around hour 48 post moderna booster. Hours 24-48 were brutal - incredibly uncomfortable. My armpit felt like I had a giant boil in it; even just moving my arm would leave me wincing in pain. Fever of 101, nausea, hotflashes and chills, just awful.

Still, I'm glad I did it. 100% worthwhile.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Shit. Just hit hour 28. Car wreck status kicking in. Will report back in the morning.

[Self Jupiter]

did you go to sleep in a different century and just wake up?

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

[Buzzworthy]

yeah (yes), I will give him credit for the (subtle) troll...
tj

Give him credit for further disinformation?
No, full stop. No more giving any of this shit credit.

[wooley12]

..........

I saw what you did there. You are not as cute as you think. And a waste of time here.

[wooley12]

Anyhoo. I listened to a nice update synopsis by the good doctor. We'll know something in a week to ten days. And he's not a fan of border closures. Counter productive security theater.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0WV...Ssi34fcdUcS4Bg

[jono]

The reason I bring this up is that I think a lot of people have unreasonable expectations of what a covid vax is capable of and might be used to push for mandates and/or vax passports.

I agree with you about the importance of the points you've brought up. Specifically, animal reservoirs (along with the total level of spread and contagiousness) basically guarantee that everyone will be exposed, probably multiple times.

So we agree that you will be exposed. And we know that the vaccines reduce your chance of a severe result when that happens by about 10-100x and carry a smaller chance of any severe reaction to the shot (1 in 1000-10,000, pessimistically). Reducing your chance of infecting someone you care about comes along for free.

So any rational person can see that the best decision for him or herself is to get a vaccine. A good one. A free one. And maybe add a mask sometimes because masks have even less downside than vaccines--and more potential upside, as evidenced by the phenomenal reduction in flu the last couple years (even with the animal reservoirs).

Given that, the fact that some people are demonstrating their irrationality with respect to their own welfare is definitely going to be used by all the totalitarians of the world to create the infrastructure needed to control (and eventually oppress) the masses. All these demonstrably irrational people will be "protected" from themselves the same way we try to protect them from heroin, mental illness and heavy impacts with steering wheels. Where will it end? Seriously, think about that some more--if the tools get built to punish stupidity, we both know they'll be overused, right?

Further, the CCP is already using our vaccine hesitancy (and fueling it, because it helps them) to gain an advantage on the world stage. Russia, too. They're doing everything they can to prevent us from protecting ourselves, including promoting everything from batshit crazy to simple division.

Luckily, free thinking, rational Americans can solve all of those problems in one fell swoop: get a vaccine. Do it now, while no one is forcing you. Hurry, so that the infrastructure of oppression never gets built. Make it silly to worry about the last few percent of us by upping the numbers until passports and proof become a waste of time (like with MMR and other childhood vaccinations that we mostly take for granted). Make the uselessness so obvious that even George Soros has to admit this won't be the door to mind control he's been hoping for. Kill this thing off so our hospitals can function and the CCP stops enjoying the advantage they've gained by our anemic response to this pandemic.

Or keep working for the enemy. Maybe spend some of Putin's money on a sweet set of day trekkers for the day after. Are you an American or an American't?

[skiJ]

his claim was,
' name a (human) respiratory virus with animal reservior(s)(sic) that has been eradicated '


my education was a long time ago, but I can't think of a human respiratory virus ( repeat. A virus ) that has been eradicated.

If we are to believe that covid19 coronavirus is being isolated from white-tailed deer, I will accept the possibility that someone could be infected by a deer they killed, But
I have not seen those studies
( cross-reactive to a virus of deer ?
(Much) more likely than covid being zoonotic between white-tailed deer and people. )

( I will try to come back and link the article I found that says,

"There is little information on covid19 and animals. "

and

"There is no known case of transmission from deer to people. " ND•TV.com

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/covi...canada-2634828

also - https://www.kare11.com/article/news/...6-a46f6ebd1f5c )


I try not to be provoked by some of this junk.
in the midwest, it is deer hunting season...
it is stunning, and no longer surprising, the things that are written with the conclusion,
' This merits further study. '

... perhaps 'sports(people)' will fund a study. or their family members will be afraid to eat venison.

I did /// I went back and read about SARS and MERS ( after my time, I am sorry to say... )

still., I would emphasize while it is believed by many that covid19 originated in an animal host, animal-to-human transmission ,,, ( I do not find it documented.
to me, that's ( really) important. )

so if someone wants to ask about a zoonotic respiratory viral diseases being eradicated. . . cats in Asia (2002). camels in the mideast in 2012.


Unvaccinated people are a much more significant reservoir of covid than white-tailed deer.

Good grief.
... good night. tj

[skiJ]

I agree with you about the importance of the points you've brought up. Specifically, animal reservoirs (along with the total level of spread and contagiousness) basically guarantee that everyone will be exposed, probably multiple times.

So we agree that you will be exposed. And we know that the vaccines reduce your chance of a severe result when that happens by about 10-100x and carry a smaller chance of any severe reaction to the shot (1 in 1000-10,000, pessimistically). Reducing your chance of infecting someone you care about comes along for free.

So any rational person can see that the best decision for him or herself is to get a vaccine. A good one. A free one. And maybe add a mask sometimes because masks have even less downside than vaccines--and more potential upside, as evidenced by the phenomenal reduction in flu the last couple years (even with the animal reservoirs).

Given that, the fact that some people are demonstrating their irrationality with respect to their own welfare is definitely going to be used by all the totalitarians of the world to create the infrastructure needed to control (and eventually oppress) the masses. All these demonstrably irrational people will be "protected" from themselves the same way we try to protect them from heroin, mental illness and heavy impacts with steering wheels. Where will it end? Seriously, think about that some more--if the tools get built to punish stupidity, we both know they'll be overused, right?

Further, the CCP is already using our vaccine hesitancy (and fueling it, because it helps them) to gain an advantage on the world stage. Russia, too. They're doing everything they can to prevent us from protecting ourselves, including promoting everything from batshit crazy to simple division.

Luckily, free thinking, rational Americans can solve all of those problems in one fell swoop: get a vaccine. Do it now, while no one is forcing you. Hurry, so that the infrastructure of oppression never gets built. Make it silly to worry about the last few percent of us by upping the numbers until passports and proof become a waste of time (like with MMR and other childhood vaccinations that we mostly take for granted). Make the uselessness so obvious that even George Soros has to admit this won't be the door to mind control he's been hoping for. Kill this thing off so our hospitals can function and the CCP stops enjoying the advantage they've gained by our anemic response to this pandemic.

Or keep working for the enemy. Maybe spend some of Putin's money on a sweet set of day trekkers for the day after. Are you an American or an American't?

This ^^^

Thank you, jono. tj

[Lvovsky]

I have Covid and chronic asthma. Not breathing well. Not terrible, but not normal either.

I'm fully vaxxed with Pfizer. Meds make my regular asthma symptoms close to non-existent. But when I'm sick my lungs tend to freak out a bit.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Get well fast. Vibes ++

[bennymac]

Maybe it’s the whisky - but there has been multiple posts and I’m still not getting the point:

Yes covid can infect animals

Yes covid will most likely be like every other infectious disease - except for the only one ever eradicated from humans - and that was 50 years ago

Again though - what’s the point? We still need to be vaccinated. We still need to live healthy. We still need to protect the vulnerable. These recommendations exist for covid and for other infectious diseases.

What is dumb dad’s point when pointing out the obvious?

Help me out here.

[dunfree]

Maybe it’s the whisky - but there has been multiple posts and I’m still not getting the point:

Yes covid can infect animals

Yes covid will most likely be like every other infectious disease - except for the only one ever eradicated from humans - and that was 50 years ago

Again though - what’s the point? We still need to be vaccinated. We still need to live healthy. We still need to protect the vulnerable. These recommendations exist for covid and for other infectious diseases.

What is dumb dad’s point when pointing out the obvious?

Help me out here.

dip a pencil in the whiskey

jam It through your eye, rub it around. Make sure you destroy most cognition, aim for nice thanksgiving mashed potatoes

”understand” that covid-19 came from beagle experiment of function funded by George soros, the Rothschilds, and dr Fauci.

[Buster Highmen]

Buster - Not everyone who disagrees with you watches fox or voted for trump.

Maybe not, but those talking points as well as the whole masking issue are shared and promoted by Fox and right wing media.

Your argument was initially based on eradication, which I, as well as virtually every one else, has pointed out is fallacious at best.
That is a stupid argument. I thought I was agreeing with that.

And I'd thought you're better than that.

I wonder if the distinction is coming across between eviscerating a stupid argument and making a personal attack.

[skiJ]

Smallpox, like whooping cough, has no known animal reservoirs and that's a big reason why those vaccines are as effective as they are.
Can anyone name a respiratory virus with known animal reservoirs that has been successfully eradicated?

DOD. I certainly was not attempting to speak for you.
apparently your knowledge of viral respiratory zoonotics is greater than mine...
my Education is dated, but I work to contribute factual information, and not contribute to the underlying disagreement ;

I went back and read about SARS and MERS ;
like I said - after my time. ...
And
I think 'we' need to be careful about claiming an 'animal reservior' --


As others have stated well and Clearly, eradication is a 'high bar' that may be years (decades) from attainment. and given the current social/political climate is going to be very, very difficult.

Vaccination remains a good tool - and
Vaccination remains an important tool.

whether or not Eradication is an attainable goal ,,, I will need to see more hopeful numbers about vaccination rate(s), because (to me) the Unvaccinated remain the reservoir that I believe will prevent eradication.

I don't believe it is a failure of the vaccines nor vaccination if twenty percent-and-more of the population refuse to be vaccinated. ...


Good luck...
Please - be vaccinated
( please get your kids vaccinated ; and

please encourage 'old people - including elderly' - to maintain their vaccination. )


Good luck. tj

[Kinnikinnick]

MoronDad with the specious arguments.

‘If we can’t immediately eradicate, what’s the point of doing anything?’

Yeah, you’ll be dead within a handful of decades, whats the point in doing anything? If you build a house, probably falls down within 100 years, no point.

School? Can’t sufficiently educate everyone, so whats the point.

Hell, even if we could create a heaven on earth, the sun will burn out eventually so fuck it.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Why doesn’t DOD’s post count increase? He’s been a member since’17 but his only posts are in this thread and only recently. Everything he’s posting are right wing and/or conspiracy talking points. It’s not honest like he says. Ban


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[teletech]

Stop being a bitch uni. It’s ok to have differing opinions. This is a ski forum not a medical forum. If people are basing their medical decisions on things they read on tgr, they are fucking morons. Banning people because they aren’t part of the echo chamber is a bitch move.

[Buster Highmen]

Stop being a bitch uni. It’s ok to have differing opinions. This is a ski forum not a medical forum. If people are basing their medical decisions on things they read on tgr, they are fucking morons. Banning people because they aren’t part of the echo chamber is a bitch move.

Differing opinions and arguments is one thing.
Completely misconstruing or misunderstanding the vax and mask policies is something else. It's always been "flatten the curve".

"Eradicating" is a red herring chowed upon by those not paying attention.

I'm not advocating banning, but I'll call out a stupid argument when I read one.

[Jax]

But why the fuck isn't his post count going up?????