ON3P SKIS Discussion

[mtskibum16]

I went 189, zero problems in tight trees. You won't regret it. 6'2 fwiw

Well that's where my dilemma is without skiing them first. I'm 5'10" and 165 lbs. Not sure I really "need" the extra stability of the 189 or if it's worth the tradeoff in agility (I know I shouldn't say that on TGR). I know there are some areas I'd like the bigger gun, just not sure how often it would be. I'm sure I'd be happy on either. The 184 will fit in my roof box way easier.

[auvgeek]

I plan to demo if possible, but I'm really leaning towards a K108 and BG setup. I'll keep my 184 Bibbys as well most likely. That makes me wonder if the 189 BG will be the way to go over the 184. But then I do spend more time in tight trees than wide open places, so the 184 BG seems to make more sense in that regard.

FWIW, 184 BG will feel more substantial than 184 Bibby. If you ski a lot of tight trees, 184 BG might be the way to go -- the 189 BG will feel larger than the 190 Bibby. Those size recommendations were for my size and style; I edited my post above to reflect that.

But if you keep the 184 Bibby for trees, you might like the larger BG for open spaces. PNW tracked pow is awesome on the BG, as others have said. One of my favorite conditions.

[mtskibum16]

FWIW, 184 BG will feel more substantial than 184 Bibby. If you ski a lot of tight trees, 184 BG might be the way to go -- the 189 BG will feel larger than the 190 Bibby. Those size recommendations were for my size and style; I edited my post above to reflect that.

But if you keep the 184 Bibby for trees, you might like the larger BG for open spaces. PNW tracked pow is awesome on the BG, as others have said. One of my favorite conditions.

Yeah I understood that about your size recommendation. I have no doubt the 184 BG will ski longer than the Bibby since it's actually more like 182 and more center mounted. And with that in mind, I don't find myself really needing/wanting more ski than the 184 Bibby. It's in no-way too much ski though, and I'm sure I'd be happy on the 190 too. I keep assuming the 186 Kartel 108 would be the way to go, it's just the BG that give me pause.

I did get in some variable 3D snow last week with a heavier crust on top where the Bibby was a bit hooky on me. It was the first time it didn't perform flawless and really had me wishing I was on a BG.

[MJbumper1121]

Personally, I like simplicity, and I think the 186 K108 and 189 RES BG would make a great 2-ski inbounds quiver

I like your insights on this combo. I am also 5'11" and 170 lbs. I was mainly thinking K 98, thinking they would be that much easier to maneuver in the bumps, but since I am already skiing something nearly as wide as the K 108, I think the 186 K108 and 189 BG may make a solid combo (and would also help thin out my quiver). I may need to talk to Jay about demoing a pair of K108 and K98 to see which I like better.

Thanks again for the input.

[auvgeek]

I like your insights on this combo. I am also 5'11" and 170 lbs. I was mainly thinking K 98, thinking they would be that much easier to maneuver in the bumps, but since I am already skiing something nearly as wide as the K 108, I think the 186 K108 and 189 BG may make a solid combo (and would also help thin out my quiver). I may need to talk to Jay about demoing a pair of K108 and K98 to see which I like better.

Thanks again for the input.

Sounds smart. Hope you can make a demo happen.

I should also mention that I currently ski the Jeffrey 110, which has the bi-radius sidecut and 25m radius vs the current K108 with elliptical sidecut and 22m radius. I've demoed the new K108 and K98, but I don't have all that much time on them. So there may be stuff about the Kartel-series I don't understand.

I've said it before, but I had more money or skied well enough to have a pro model, I'd have ON3P make a "Kartel" 110 with the bi-radius sidecut, minimal taper, and 25-27m radius. Yum.

If you really like the Vicik, you might want to check out the Wren 108, too. Biggest difference between the K108 and the Wren 108 is the mount point, IMHO.

Where do you usually ski in the Front Range?

[PowTron]

I like your insights on this combo. I am also 5'11" and 170 lbs. I was mainly thinking K 98, thinking they would be that much easier to maneuver in the bumps, but since I am already skiing something nearly as wide as the K 108, I think the 186 K108 and 189 BG may make a solid combo (and would also help thin out my quiver). I may need to talk to Jay about demoing a pair of K108 and K98 to see which I like better.

Thanks again for the input.

I have a brand new pair of K108 186 demos that just popped into my garage last weekend...just saying. I also have two pair of my own BG;s we could probably get you on, too.

[The SnowShow]

I have a brand new pair of K108 186 demos that just popped into my garage last weekend...just saying. I also have two pair of my own BG;s we could probably get you on, too.

Are you looking to sell those K108s?

[N1CK.]

I like your insights on this combo. I am also 5'11" and 170 lbs. I was mainly thinking K 98, thinking they would be that much easier to maneuver in the bumps, but since I am already skiing something nearly as wide as the K 108, I think the 186 K108 and 189 BG may make a solid combo (and would also help thin out my quiver). I may need to talk to Jay about demoing a pair of K108 and K98 to see which I like better.

Thanks again for the input.

What is your bsl?

[robnow]

So I'll start out by saying I've been a huge fan of the Billygoat, starting with the original protos in 2010 and now onto the current 189 version. My opinion pretty much echos what has been said over the last couple pages. I find it to be SUCH a versatile ski, an absolute charger in mixed conditions and a fun and playful slayer in deeper pow, absolutely love the rigidity underfoot. At 6'2" and 190 lbs I find it to be enough ski laying bigger lines. If I lived at the resort and skied daily as I did in Whistler in the past I suppose I would look more seriously at the SG.

I picked up W108s this season in 189, have had about 4 days on them and I'll admit, I'm not quite getting used to them. I've been on the BGs solely for so long I think I've become accustomed to the looser tail, partly (maybe mostly) from the rocker and partly from the pintailish narrowness. Next day out I plan to detune the tails more and a little further up, so far have left factory tune alone. Admittedly I've become lazy over the years with my technique and when on the Wrens am focusing much more on getting that weight forward but still having a hard time getting the tail to slide out when I want. In the past I would have loved this kind of ski coming off Movement Goliaths and then onto Dynastar Big Dumps before the BG switch.

As it sits, I'm so content with the BG for everyday use, and fortunately we've had the conditions for it for the past month. I almost imagine a quiver of a BG and narrow BG for myself.


Uhhh, why is this rotated?

[AJ.]

Would it be possible to make a Ladygoat (I guess it would be Nannygoat?) as a custom option? The wife was struggling in Whistler cement and it got me thinking...

[iggyskier]

Would it be possible to make a Ladygoat (I guess it would be Nannygoat?) as a custom option? The wife was struggling in Whistler cement and it got me thinking...

We sort of did for awhile - 166/176. When we had those sizes around they sold.......well they didn't really sell. That said - we are talking about offering it in a SuperGoat-esc capacity thru the Champagne Room - basically preorder only - one run/year. Would be updated to 164/174. From a design aspect - some of the baseline is already in place so it wouldn't be a ton of work to get the skis update to current RES specs & asymmetry. That said, would have to be notable presale interest for us to completely dive into it. We were already building SuperGoats for athletes and it still took a preorder to make the production time make sense, so a bit more to it on this one. So, yeah, we're talking about it, though we use a different internal working name than the Nanny Goat (Bhaaaaad Bitch 🐐 ). Not sure under what branding the ski would go to production though.

[paal]

So I'll start out by saying I've been a huge fan of the Billygoat, starting with the original protos in 2010 and now onto the current 189 version. My opinion pretty much echos what has been said over the last couple pages. I find it to be SUCH a versatile ski, an absolute charger in mixed conditions and a fun and playful slayer in deeper pow, absolutely love the rigidity underfoot. At 6'2" and 190 lbs I find it to be enough ski laying bigger lines. If I lived at the resort and skied daily as I did in Whistler in the past I suppose I would look more seriously at the SG.

I picked up W108s this season in 189, have had about 4 days on them and I'll admit, I'm not quite getting used to them. I've been on the BGs solely for so long I think I've become accustomed to the looser tail, partly (maybe mostly) from the rocker and partly from the pintailish narrowness. Next day out I plan to detune the tails more and a little further up, so far have left factory tune alone. Admittedly I've become lazy over the years with my technique and when on the Wrens am focusing much more on getting that weight forward but still having a hard time getting the tail to slide out when I want. In the past I would have loved this kind of ski coming off Movement Goliaths and then onto Dynastar Big Dumps before the BG switch.

As it sits, I'm so content with the BG for everyday use, and fortunately we've had the conditions for it for the past month. I almost imagine a quiver of a BG and narrow BG for myself.

I bought the SG and W108 for this season.
Your "wren tail issues" are pretty much what I felt as well. I was much happier on the SGs. I ended up selling the wrens, and was planning to get something skinnier, turnier and generally more playful to make a 2 ski inbounds quiver with the SG.
However, I just came across a great deal on last years 184 BG. I bought them immediately

SuperGoats + TreeGoats

[optics]

Good to know. I read that the Wren 88 is stiffer than the 98 so probably wouldn't be as good in the bumps. Anyone use the Kartel to ski bumps? Guessing it would be even better since it's softer than the Wrens.

I have some time in the bumps on both W88 and K108.

The wrens were obviously a lot quicker edge to edge but the stiffness (especially the tail?) meant I got my ass handed to me a few times when I let them run in tight bumps or got even slightly backseat. But that is probably operator error and me being out of shape more than anything.

I didn't expect this but the K108 is probably my favorite bump ski ever. Or close second to the dynastar vertical comp's I had in eighth grade. And you gain a lot of versatility over the K98's. You should give them a shot.

[auvgeek]

Not sure under what branding the ski would go to production though.

Betty Goat!

But yeah, my wife rocks the 176 Billy Goat and IIRC Norseman's wife rocks the 166 BG. I understand Scott's needing to make skis that sell (gotta keep the lights on!), but women do love that ski.

[optics]

Bader Ginsburgoat

Just imagine the graphics potential

[mtskibum16]

I have a brand new pair of K108 186 demos that just popped into my garage last weekend...just saying. I also have two pair of my own BG;s we could probably get you on, too.

No chance those demos are for sale?

We sort of did for awhile - 166/176. When we had those sizes around they sold.......well they didn't really sell. That said - we are talking about offering it in a SuperGoat-esc capacity thru the Champagne Room - basically preorder only - one run/year. Would be updated to 164/174. From a design aspect - some of the baseline is already in place so it wouldn't be a ton of work to get the skis update to current RES specs & asymmetry. That said, would have to be notable presale interest for us to completely dive into it. We were already building SuperGoats for athletes and it still took a preorder to make the production time make sense, so a bit more to it on this one. So, yeah, we're talking about it, though we use a different internal working name than the Nanny Goat (Bhaaaaad Bitch �� ). Not sure under what branding the ski would go to production though.

I would totally be down for a 164 Baby Goat for my wife as long is it wasn't too heavy (or had a tour layup option). She's 5'0" and like 110lbs so quite petite. haha

[klauss]

I bought the SG and W108 for this season.
Your "wren tail issues" are pretty much what I felt as well. I was much happier on the SGs. I ended up selling the wrens, and was planning to get something skinnier, turnier and generally more playful to make a 2 ski inbounds quiver with the SG.
However, I just came across a great deal on last years 184 BG. I bought them immediately

SuperGoats + TreeGoats

A two ski BG quiver. Is the BG the new soul 7 or something? Reading that the new wren's tail is "punishing" That's an outrageous slur.

It has the most gentle wren tail to date with more rocker, while still maintaining composure in all conditions.

[Self Jupiter]

Bader Ginsburgoat

LOL

[adrenalated]

A two ski BG quiver. Is the BG the new soul 7 or something? Reading that the new wren's tail is "punishing" That's an outrageous slur.

It has the most gentle wren tail to date with more rocker, while still maintaining composure in all conditions.

Seriously, the current Wren is the easiest to ski tail ever on a Wren. By a long shot.

I liked the old tail better as iggy and Powtron are aware.
#i'mradonlyontheinternet

[TahoeJ]

Reading that the new wren's tail is "punishing" That's an outrageous slur.

It has the most gentle wren tail to date with more rocker, while still maintaining composure in all conditions.

Seriously, the current Wren is the easiest to ski tail ever on a Wren. By a long shot.

Thank you! Thought I was losing my mind or something. And yeah, that beefy Wren tail from a few years back was a real ass kicker, but I much prefer the versatility the new one provides. Anyway, it sounds like some of you may need to do a little gummy work on the tails - they release just fine. Or maybe get out of the back seat?

[uglymoney]

Gummy didn't do shit on my 98's. It was like throwing a hot dog down a hallway. Went full Nazi on the tips and tails with my stone and now they feel fine even when I throw my weight back on purpose I seem to be able to make them release but I am stuck skiing midwest man made till March so can't really confirm off piste performance and no way I am brave enough to tackle ice bumps with them yet. They are fun on hard groomers that aren't pure ice for sure. On ice they might be better with more than a 1 1 edge. Funny Tuesday night the snow was awesome chalk so I wore ancient Rossi Sickbirds tele after a few days on the Wrens and they felt like they had plastic edges. Took a few runs to get used to such a forgiving ski.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[optics]

Seriously, the current Wren is the easiest to ski tail ever on a Wren. By a long shot.

Could be my imagination but I felt a difference between the tail on the 88 and the 108. The 88 felt more demanding to me by a noticeable margin.

Not a “problem” but a noticeable characteristic.

But I’m also not even rad on the internet, so...

[mtskibum16]

Thank you! Thought I was losing my mind or something. And yeah, that beefy Wren tail from a few years back was a real ass kicker, but I much prefer the versatility the new one provides. Anyway, it sounds like some of you may need to do a little gummy work on the tails - they release just fine. Or maybe get out of the back seat?

There's going to be a whole generation of skiers soon (if not already) that have only skied on heavily rockered skis, and don't know what to do with a more traditional tail or how to drive a ski.

[mtskibum16]

Could be my imagination but I felt a difference between the tail on the 88 and the 108. The 88 felt more demanding to me by a noticeable margin.

Not a “problem” but a noticeable characteristic.

But I’m also not even rad on the internet, so...

I think they were primarily discussing the 108. My impression is that by design, the 88 is stiffer and more locked in for harder snow conditions. Not sure if there's less tail rocker on the 88 than the 108, but a stiffer tail would do that too.

[jackattack]

There's going to be a whole generation of skiers soon (if not already) that have only skied on heavily rockered skis, and don't know what to do with a more traditional tail or how to drive a ski.

The same generation that can’t drive a manual transmission.