Staying dry inbounds all day?

[TAFKALVS]

I get your point about not doing it right! I will say Chamonix is is hot as fuck. I went there with one pair of long john bottoms for a week and came back with some pretty scary funk. I went to the doctor, and turns out wearing my under pants inside out didn’t really work after the second day. I was pretty scared. I thought it might be consumption.

I had also knocked my front teeth out and I had a hole in ny cheek, so I was a sight.

Paging ichibaneye...

[roll - gybe]

So I am totally on board with a light wool base layer. I went to ultra light wool socks for mid summer 100 degree golf and could not have been more impressed.

I also used some merino glove liners last year and was really happy my dry hands.

Is there a good objective way to compare the permiabilty of soft shells?

And what is y’alls’ experience with wind blocking? I suppose if I could get a midlayer in there, it would help with wind.

And my three year old also changes his clothes when he gets hot (always hot; all my kids are always hot). But when that kid is all wet from pissing himself, it’s a whole nother world of problems.

[neufox47]

But when that kid is all wet from pissing himself, it’s a whole nother world of problems.

Goretex underwear. Patagonia if you are spendy.

[galibier_numero_un]

Unzipping on the lift is about as complicated as it gets for me.

Two years ago, I ditched the layering concept for lifts (mid-Winter) and not only has it simplified my life, but I'm much more comfortable during occasional lift stoppages.

... Thom

[MakersTeleMark]

Unzipping on the lift is about as complicated as it gets for me.

Two years ago, I ditched the layering concept for lifts (mid-Winter) and not only has it simplified my life, but I'm much more comfortable during occasional lift stoppages.

... Thom

Me too. I love skiing naked. No need to drop trou at all.

[Neurodoc]

I run three layers always unless in temperature extremes. Thin wicking layer next to the skin. I find good synthetics work better than wool for me if there’s any possibility of sweating. Midlayer can either be fleece, wool, or down, but generally fleece if I’m expecting to sweat. Goretex or equivalent shell. Also I wear great big mittens with super thin glove liners underneath, with a hot pack in the tip of the mitts. My hands stay dry and warm, and I can work my phone with the liners on, it’s easy to slip the mittens off and on.

The idea, for both body and hands, is to stay warm and feel dry at all times. Perspiration is immediately wicked away from the base layer to the fleece layer, which conveniently stays warm even when wet. Eventually that moisture escapes via the Goretex shell.

If you’re having trouble getting your layers dialed, you might want to bring a backpack with different layer options up with you to the mountain and leave it in the lodge if possible. That way you can change when necessary.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So I am totally on board with a light wool base layer. I went to ultra light wool socks for mid summer 100 degree golf and could not have been more impressed.

I also used some merino glove liners last year and was really happy my dry hands.

Is there a good objective way to compare the permiabilty of soft shells?

And what is y’alls’ experience with wind blocking? I suppose if I could get a midlayer in there, it would help with wind.

And my three year old also changes his clothes when he gets hot (always hot; all my kids are always hot). But when that kid is all wet from pissing himself, it’s a whole nother world of problems.

Wear your wool base layer with your Land's End jacket, you'll be stylish and warm.

[whyturn]

Buy a Merino baselayer and polartech fleece and event or neoshell jacket. Or new pro Shell with pit zips but not as breathable. Get rid of synthetic first layer. Also make sure to make less turns. Turns cause you to overheat.

[old goat]

Another place to adjust temp is the head. Assuming wearing a helmet, opening and closing the vents and for me, it has to be in negative digits before I use the ear covers. I just use a thin helmet liner which I take off when it gets warm. And of course, hood on and off. That might be the easiest of all.

I've tried merino and I don't get the hype. And it's not like I don't like wool (see my avatar--that's 2 wool shirts and wool pants).

[alpinevibes]

I get your point about not doing it right! I will say Chamonix is is hot as fuck. I went there with one pair of long john bottoms for a week and came back with some pretty scary funk. I went to the doctor, and turns out wearing my under pants inside out didn’t really work after the second day. I was pretty scared. I thought it might be consumption.

I had also knocked my front teeth out and I had a hole in ny cheek, so I was a sight.

Quoting this for emphasis.

Anyways... OP - what pants are you skiing in? I'm not a big sweater when I ski but I notice my legs get hot before my upper body in most cases. You may also want to make sure you're staying light on your lower body. I ski in Gore Pro shell bibs with light baselayers; I can't imagine an insulated pant.

[skizix]

I like merino, but it is not better enough than synthetics to justify the price. That and the odds of my wife inadvertently throwing merino stuff in the dryer and shrinking the crap out of it would seem to be close to 100% (2 out of 2 merino pieces I've had have suffered that fate).

[XXX-er]

I don't think Merino is any warmer, I wore lightest merino T shirts in the Caribbean my dad used to wear it in the tropics and what Merino is great for is not stinking, but its not very wear resistant,

When he heard wool T -shirts were a thing again my sedentary 86 yr old father wanted some, he put holes in all his Merino top layers just sitting in the condo watching TV , all my pieces developed holes really quick and I'm not that hard on gear of clothing

IME get the light merino T-shirts which are also the cheapest and wear them under poly layers where they will not stink and nobody will see the holes

[pfluffenmeister]

I run cold and am a skinny fucker, so my standard kit runs four thin layers on top:

Merino oney base layer (150g).
Polartech fleece mid layer (old style MH Desna w/ sweet built in zippable balaclava).
50g primaloft.
Soft shell.

3 on the bottom:

Merino oney (150g).
Running tights.
Goretex pants.

The old style Mountain Hardware Desna is the lynchpin of the system; I wear it in almost all temps.
The fuckers changed the hood when they redesigned it, essentially eliminating the balaclava.

[roll - gybe]

Ok so I think the base layer is an issue.

I had a good workout today in one of my Nike running “wicking” tee shirts and while it’s kind of like capaline, my sweat sort of spreads out all over. When I walked back to my car, I got clammy. The shirt was still wet hours later. So maybe that’s not really a winter layer.


I picked up a generic polar tech power dry at REI that has small grids of fleece. It’s lighter than an R1, and more of a base layer. It just looks like those little grids will pull moisture better.

If I go with a woven soft shell, I am thinking I may need another thin layer in between. Funny I’m thinking about a day I forgot my jacket and went to Targee. I had fleece and a killer Dale of Norway sweater that I know you would all love. I went full Stein Erickson that day. Despite the bulk, I was warm and dry and just wind proof enough. The three porous layers cut a ton of wind.

In my old set up, I would normally go lightweight capaline and the thinnest fleece vest I ever found with a one layer shell. I did get cold that way, so I went down the road of trying to be warm; I will try something new this winter and probably fuck it up too.

Oh pants wise: I have uninsulated; mesh lined pants. Usually with lightweight merino. I can get pretty hot in there, but early in the day, my ass and thighs can be downright frozen. With the zips I would say that works fair. (I did have insulted pants in Cham. Didn’t help with the days on end of fondue farts into the same long johns)

It was really the base layer today making me feel uncomfortable in just a parking lot that really made me realize that needs to be changed up.

[abraham]

Oh. Yeah Im pretty sure I had a friend who was a guide tell me about something similar. He said he went on a trip with a bunch of friends when he moved West and he was shivering and cold the entire time after they stopped moving. Eventually he found out there are two types of synthetic t shirts and the ones he had were keeping moisture and making him cold.

[Supermoon]

Yeah. Some of the Dri-Fit Nike stuff will wick away moisture and hold it in the fabric. My bet is that it’s made to act like a swamp cooler and cool you down, not wick it away from skin and dry quickly.


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[roll - gybe]

Can anyone opine on Patagonia capaline over the years?

I have a lightweight base layer from a long time ago that looks different from what they are selling now.

It’s a lightweight knit versus more of today’s slick flat fabric (which looks like my failed Dry Fit).

My old capaline shirt probably never really failed me, but if did shrink vertically (think half shirt from 1982). I stopped wearing it because it drafts up my back, but maybe under another light layer it would work better than the other crap I have.

These baselayers aren’t backbreakingly expensive, but it would be annoying to buy something new and just have it fail.

Well now that I think of it when I bought this Patagonia it was a long time ago and I had very little money, and it did feel like a backbreaking purchase

[::: :::]

I can’t help on the fabric makeup of capilene, but it may be worth trying something off-brand if your budget is limited. L9 had a base layer deal in their 12 Days deals. #2 is base layers.
https://www.levelninesports.com/promos/past-deals

[undertow2]

Can anyone opine on Patagonia capaline over the years?

I have a lightweight base layer from a long time ago that looks different from what they are selling now.

It’s a lightweight knit versus more of today’s slick flat fabric (which looks like my failed Dry Fit).

My old capaline shirt probably never really failed me, but if did shrink vertically (think half shirt from 1982). I stopped wearing it because it drafts up my back, but maybe under another light layer it would work better than the other crap I have.

These baselayers aren’t backbreakingly expensive, but it would be annoying to buy something new and just have it fail.

Well now that I think of it when I bought this Patagonia it was a long time ago and I had very little money, and it did feel like a backbreaking purchase

As I have said at nauseam I am a Patty fan and I do own Patty capaline baselayers and they have performed ok... For me I turn to wool 99% of the time for socks and baselayers... I have several different wool weights depending on the temperature and I much prefer wool over capaline... My pants and coat are Patty Untracked and than use wear an R1 hoody and than wool against the skin... I have been running this setup for years and have never had the cold clammy feeling...

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[roll - gybe]

All advice taken. It’s good advice.

I have a FRS on the way and I am changing up my base layers.

Since I will add a mid layer, where do you guys put the layer when you take it off? A full on pack is a lot to drag around and I can’t imagine any of your friends are going to wait for you to go to the lodge.

[plugboots]

Don’t take it off, that’s the key. You use the jacket with all its vents to not heat up. You’ll need to start figuring out how to regulate your temperature, especially when you start out, you want to be a little cold.

[jono]

Sounds like a good strategy. I skied during chemo last year, which required a Very narrow temp range--really sensitive to overheating, especially hands and feet, but any blast of cold air or contact with snow on my skin felt like instant frostbite. Toxic sweat, so no way on the vapor barrier. I think my comfort range was about 10% of normal, but paying attention before getting cold or hot was the key that made it work.

I wore a Freeride Systems Antero II softshell with multiple layers under it and a pair of oversized Free The Powder mittens with one or two base layer gloves under that (depending on conditions). Working the zippers and (rarely) pulling off the mittens worked for keeping me dry and neither hot or cold. Those mittens have a softshell back, too, so good breathability and add breathable insulation to cut wind, as with the jacket. Thin buff base under helmet (and usually hood up) for the same strategy: spread the moisture for faster evaporation and have a full base layer so you can pull off the outer for a second without freezing an ear.

As you've found, not all synthetic base layers are created equal. Tight weaves seem to be the suck. My sweat doesn't happen to like merino, never dries out for me, so I'm always using cold weather running layers bought on closeout. I like the fit of Hind/Nike/Reebok, assuming the right fabric. And the Bross type hooded mid layer with grid is awesome (since FRS isn't making Sneffles anymore). But all the breathable layering has to be followed up with paying attention to the signs of overheating if you're going to make it work optimally. Most people don't need it to work optimally and not caring is a little more fun in some ways, but suddenly realizing you're cold is more distracting than paying attention early and often IME.