Lindsey Vonn asks permission to enter men’s downhill race

[Alaskan Rover]

26.11.2011 - Results WC DH Lake Louise
Rank Name Nation Total FIS pnts
1 CUCHE Didier SUI 1:47.28 0.00
2 FEUZ Beat SUI 1:47.34 0.74
3 REICHELT Hannes AUT 1:47.36 0.99
4 BAUMANN Romed AUT 1:47.63 4.34
5 KROELL Klaus AUT 1:47.75 5.83
6 CLAREY Johan FRA 1:47.91 7.81
6 THEAUX Adrien FRA 1:47.91 7.81
8 PUCHNER Joachim AUT 1:47.96 8.43
9 MILLER Bode USA 1:48.01 9.05
10 STREITBERGER Georg AUT 1:48.06 9.67
11 JANSRUD Kjetil NOR 1:48.26 12.15
12 HUDEC Jan CAN 1:48.33 13.02
13 PARIS Dominik ITA 1:48.36 13.39
14 SVINDAL Aksel Lund NOR 1:48.53 15.50
15 BERTRAND Yannick FRA 1:48.59 16.24
16 SANDER Andreas GER 1:48.67 17.23
17 POISSON David FRA 1:48.69 17.48
17 HOFFMANN Ambrosi SUI 1:48.69 17.48
19 ROMAR Andreas FIN 1:48.71 17.73
20 GISIN Marc SUI 1:48.73 17.98
21 RAICH Benjamin AUT 1:48.76 18.35
22 OLSSON Hans SWE 1:48.80 18.84
23 INNERHOFER Christof ITA 1:48.84 19.34
24 SULLIVAN Marco USA 1:48.88 19.84
25 FRANZ Max AUT 1:48.90 20.08
25 DIXON Robbie CAN 1:48.90 20.08
27 GANONG Travis USA 1:48.91 20.21
28 JANKA Carlo SUI 1:48.92 20.33
29 ZURBRIGGEN Silvan SUI 1:48.93 20.46
30 FAYED Guillermo FRA 1:48.96 20.83
31 KRAMER Manuel AUT 1:49.04 21.82
32 STECHERT Tobias GER 1:49.05 21.94
33 FILL Peter ITA 1:49.08 22.32
34 THOMSEN Benjamin CAN 1:49.12 22.81
35 FISHER Erik USA 1:49.19 23.68
35 KEPPLER Stephan GER 1:49.19 23.68
37 KROELL Johannes AUT 1:49.26 24.55
38 MAPLE Wiley USA 1:49.27 24.67
39 GRUENENFELDER Tobias SUI 1:49.35 25.66
39 KOSTELIC Ivica CRO 1:49.35 25.66
41 SPORN Andrej SLO 1:49.38 26.03
42 JERMAN Andrej SLO 1:49.39 26.16
43 KUENG Patrick SUI 1:49.41 26.41
44 GUAY Erik CAN 1:49.42 26.53
45 KLINE Bostjan SLO 1:49.48 27.27
46 HELIE Louis-Pierre CAN 1:49.52 27.77
47 MAYER Matthias AUT 1:49.59 28.64
48 DEFAGO Didier SUI 1:49.69 29.88
49 HEEL Werner ITA 1:49.78 30.99
50 LUEOEND Vitus SUI 1:49.81 31.37
51 WEIBRECHT Andrew USA 1:49.85 31.86
52 HALBERT Kelby CAN 1:49.88 32.23
53 CASSE Mattia ITA 1:50.02 33.97
54 MARKIC Gasper SLO 1:50.24 36.70
54 JAERBYN Patrik SWE 1:50.24 36.70
56 PATSCHEIDER Hagen ITA 1:50.25 36.82
57 MARSAGLIA Matteo ITA 1:50.40 38.68
58 KRIZAJ Andrej SLO 1:50.49 39.80
59 SEMPLE Ryan CAN 1:50.51 40.04
59 PRIDY Conrad CAN 1:50.51 40.04
61 ZRNCIC-DIM Natko CRO 1:50.69 42.28
62 ROGER Brice FRA 1:50.78 43.39
63 COOK Dustin CAN 1:51.13 47.73
64 BJERKESTRAND Iver NOR 1:52.43 63.85
65 CRAWFORD Douglas GBR 1:52.85 69.05
66 SIROKI Tin CRO 1:53.60 78.35
Did not finish 1st run
COCHRAN-SIEGLE Ryan USA
KLOTZ Siegmar ITA
PERKO Rok

Yeah...that's what I mean....five seconds (if that estimate is correct) would put her always just above the DNFs. If I were her, I would rather stay on the top of the women's ranks than at the bottom of the men's rankings. WTF?

It's a moot point, anyway. She can ask all she wants. They'll deny her. It's been men's and women's rankings forever. Why would they want to change it? Certainly wouldn't up the men's game any.

Maybe they can grant her a series of non-point exhibition races where she can compete directly with the men. Maybe that will shut her up when she gets her ass (a fine one at that!!!) handed to her.

--

[L7]

I agree with above that 2-3 seconds off the fastest time will be more like it. It largely depends on her start.... If they start her last 5 seconds may be it. Jan Hudec thinks she should be let in and should get a start somewhere in the 30 to boot. LL isn't a big gliders course so the weight issue isn't such a big one. Actually it depends on how high a start to carry speed over that top flat. I don't think Beat Fuez is a terribly big guy and he did ok.

Although it is sort of the same course as the women's the start is (hopefully) higher for men and that really changes the course plus they set more aggressively for the men's course so same slope doesn't really equal same course.

It would draw a lot more people to LL for the race I suspect. I just think it would be good to guage somewhat where someone like her fits in with the Men.

[concretejungle]

LL isn't a big gliders course so the weight issue isn't such a big one.

Um, yes it is. That's why she kills everyone there.

[L7]

Um now you're talking the woman's course. Men's start at the top of the gully gives them speed for 'sunset flats' where the turns eat up more than weight. From Tickety chutes on it is pretty steady pitch to men's downhill with a small flat between the c turn and waterfall and then steep to gunbarrel which is the fastest part of the course. Flattish now how they run the bottom of juniper and then a couple of rolls into the finish with a big turn off one of the rolls. There are lots of courses out there with longer flatter chunks on either end than LL. Again Beat Fuez is not that big 5'7 and a bit and not super thick and he seemed to hold his own.

[Maximus Farcisimus]

She would lose the advantage she has over the women.........running mens DH skis.

[concretejungle]

Um now you're talking the woman's course. Men's start at the top of the gully gives them speed for 'sunset flats' where the turns eat up more than weight. From Tickety chutes on it is pretty steady pitch to men's downhill with a small flat between the c turn and waterfall and then steep to gunbarrel which is the fastest part of the course. Flattish now how they run the bottom of juniper and then a couple of rolls into the finish with a big turn off one of the rolls. There are lots of courses out there with longer flatter chunks on either end than LL. Again Beat Fuez is not that big 5'7 and a bit and not super thick and he seemed to hold his own.

The World Cup skiers disagree as do their coaches.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Actually, she did blow the competion away in several DH's last year including in the DH at lake Louise,winning by nearly 2 seconds. http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_1946086 She's been absolutely dominant at LL over the last several years and skis on men'd DH equipment.

I think she is probably closer to 2-3 seconds off the top men instead of a full 5 on a course like Lake Louise. She's a big girl by women's standards but is still giving up close to 50 lbs on many of the men's top DH'ers- Cuche wasn't tall at 5'9" but he was running @220lbs.

I'd kind of like to see this happen to give her an ego check...

Correct, but there were also reports (last year?) that in training she was beating some WC men. I believe that was only in GS, and who knows what the men were actually doing with their training (equipment testing, wax differences, effort), but it might be interesting to see. A flat course like LL probably wouldn't be best for her, though--in DH I'd actually give her better odds at Beaver Creek. I predict she's at least 4 seconds off the podium at LL--so maybe she could finish in the 50's...but who knows. I also tend to think she wouldn't ask if she thought she'd be DFL.

[Dexter Rutecki]

The World Cup skiers disagree as do their coaches.

Yeah, LL is a definite glider's course. Flat as hell--men and women. (I thought they were identical for at least 2/3rds, but either way they're both flat.)

[davieboot]

As long as she isn't DFL, I say go for it. If she ends up getting smoked, then that will be that. But in the mean time, it would be fun.

[wolfelot]

There is an image problem with women's wc racing? I don't have a problem with it. I mean its not like the comparison between women's and men's wc racing has a gulf as huge and obvious as the NBA vs WNBA or am I missing something? I'll tune into women's racing if I happen to come across it on tv.

[BaNosser]

Let her race one... what's the big deal? It'd be awesome to see how she'd compete against the best... the ratings would be thru the roof..

[jfost]

Let her race one... what's the big deal? It'd be awesome to see how she'd compete against the best... the ratings would be thru the roof..

yeah, then she can tee it up with Michelle Wie against the men in the next ryder cup!

[yellowstoner]

I don't see what they have to lose by letting her compete - but if they decide to not allow her to compete, they'll probably have a women's lib shitstorm. I also think that she probably should then not be able to compete at the women's even the next week.

[plugboots]

There's lots of reasons to do this. It's fall, no skiing yet, sponsors need exposure, hype, etc.
I guess that yummy instagram photo ain't working. Works for me.

[JAREDS]

Read it again. The article says she will be 5 seconds slower than the fastest men. That means she will only be 4.5 seconds slower than the slowest men.

This is the funniest post I've read on this site

[huckbucket]

I don't really care what she does, just keep posting pictures like this lindsey

http://instagram.com/p/LXm62ZkTkC/

That deserves a bump ... a nice perky bump.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Nice PR stunt but that is all. LL is the gliders course, she has dominated due to her relative size and mainly strength. It is well documented that she is one of the few girls skiing on men's skis and will likely transition to the new reduced radius skis easier than the smaller girls like Gut or Schild. She still has a long way to go to catch Moser -Proll. FIS won't let it go and if they were it would have to be open to all girls. Let them run BOP full length, my guess is training would thin the crowd pretty quickly.

[brutah]

^^^thanks for the perky bump huckbucket!

if she wants to change the perception of women's alpine skiing, she should petition to race in the Kitzbühel or Bromio downhills NOT the easiest downhill course on the world cup circuit!

oh yea and FUCK FIS!!!

[mtnbiker/boarder]

That deserves a bump ... a nice perky bump.

Let her comepete and see what happens...end of story.....get her off the Mns DH ski and put her on womens....other than that let see more of this and less talk.....

[powder11]

There is an image problem with women's wc racing? I don't have a problem with it. I mean its not like the comparison between women's and men's wc racing has a gulf as huge and obvious as the NBA vs WNBA or am I missing something? I'll tune into women's racing if I happen to come across it on tv.

Other than Riesch or Vonn, watching womens ski racing is painful. I'm not saying I could beat any of them, but from a spectators point of view, unless you personally know someone in the race, it's not worth watching. I'd be curious to see Vonn race against men, but it ain't gonna happen. No way FIS allows a PR circus stunt like that. While Vonn's ego is big enough to think she can compete with the boys, she would get crushed and it would further cunt up the image of womens ski racing.

[The AD]

Let her comepete and see what happens...end of story

I agree. It's all just water cooler speculation until then. Obviously she's not going to be on the podium, but I'll bet she won't be DFL, either. These are the best skiers in the world. She could hang with men at ANY other level, but not in a WC downhill.

[Eldo]

Well there is this issue:

“It’s complicated because no racer is supposed to ski on a race course a week prior to his or her own competition. If Lindsey Vonn could train and compete with the men in November, she would have a huge advantage on her rivals the following week during the women’s races on the same course,” Skaardal added....

If Vonn agrees not to race with the women at LL the following week then let her try racing the men. Someone is going to end up embarassed, it would be fun to see who it is.

[Canada1]

In fact, I prefer to watch the women right now because the US hs a competitive group. In mens, it is always wait to see if Bode DNF's, and then switch the channel. Of course GS is the exception with TL.

I thought all of the Head sponsored women went over to the mens skis last year and that is what narrowed the field significantly?

The place where a large delta exists between mens and womens is in the park and on big mountain segments. Maybe they know something we don't?

[Buster Highmen]

I'd actually give her better odds at Beaver Creek...

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

[laseranimal]

I don't pretend to know anything about women's ski racing but its more like anika sorenstam teeing it up against the men at colonial then Michelle Wie being a publicity whore. When Michelle played against the guys she hadn't won anything and honestly i think it hurt her career going foreward. Lindsey has proven she can beat women why not let her go up against the guys. If she gets her ass kicked who the hell cares?