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08-13-2015, 09:45 AM #776
Jackson Hole Roll Call Winter 14/15
Last edited by digitaldeath; 08-13-2015 at 10:07 AM.
Zone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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08-13-2015, 10:22 AM #777
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08-13-2015, 10:29 AM #778
i ski the crud
racing on a powder day seems dumbZone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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08-13-2015, 10:31 AM #779
I'm up for crud too. or ice or whatever. I just like skiing
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08-13-2015, 10:34 AM #780Registered User
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That happened years ago. It's probably all non-locals moving in to live the 'TGR dream' and being forced to leave. It's been for the rich for a long time. I moved away 9 years ago because of it. Some friends figured it out how to stay in the valley without a trust fund, so it's possible, but most friends I knew were able to stay thanks to huge trust funds. Or do long commutes from Idaho, which is stupid. I couldn't compete, and I had a real job with a decent salary. Or I just didn't want it enough.
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08-13-2015, 11:04 AM #781
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08-13-2015, 11:11 AM #782
16BBI?
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08-13-2015, 11:13 AM #783
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08-13-2015, 11:14 AM #784
ya ill be there, we can dance then
Zone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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08-13-2015, 11:18 AM #785
I'll start practicingskid luxury
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08-13-2015, 11:22 AM #786
would be funny to ski with you, i can shout out
'BABY BEAR, BABY BEAR NOOOOOOO'
when you go to the wrong liftZone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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08-13-2015, 12:04 PM #787Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Patterson Hood of the DBT's
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08-13-2015, 01:13 PM #788
Besides bitchin' about rents and the lack of affordable housing for a local to purchase, what can be done? I've yet to see any kind of affordable housing program that works. Unlike many Americans, I think homeownership is a privilege not a right. Deed restricted programs benefit very few. Employee housing is a large benefit to the employer.
How long is the winter commute from Victor or Bondurant? Why can't affordable housing be in these communities? Why do people think they deserve to live within 15mins. of their job and the ski area (sorry "Village")?
It sucks, but it comes off whiny and unrealistic. Lots of people drive an hour to work or recreation because they live where they can afford. What's so different about Jackson?Last edited by Foggy_Goggles; 08-13-2015 at 01:53 PM. Reason: comprehension
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08-13-2015, 01:45 PM #789
jackson is in wyoming
Zone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
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08-13-2015, 03:05 PM #790
My lady commutes everyday Victor to Stillson in the winter, Victor to the Aspens in the summer. She leaves 5 minutes earlier than need be to beat the morning commute and averages about 35 minutes. Plenty of others do to.
In CA my commute was 45 minutes to get 5 miles on the freeway. It could be way worse and its a small price to pay to live where we live and do what we do.
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08-13-2015, 03:12 PM #791
^^^and the crusty fucks that think the world owes them something will keep bitchin' or leave while people like Snapt will move to town with their head held high thankful for everything they have.
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08-13-2015, 10:41 PM #792
http://planetjh.com/2015/08/04/the-b...es-of-blair-3/ We don't need home ownership, we need greater rental density in
town to support all the mega homes and hotels that get approved.
I'm a small business owner and homeowner but was lucky (well, and maybe smart) to get my toe hold here.
With housing supply artificially limited to the extreme this place is going to crack soon.
As an example, I have a prospective employee who would love to work here, and I am paying a competitive wage for Chicago, where he lives, he is ready and willing to relocate with his wife, but vacancy is under 1% and we can't find a work around.
5 pages of jobs, 3 listings for rentals, and it aint like Alpine and Victor are much better, because he would certainly consider those options.
Just sayin'
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08-13-2015, 10:50 PM #793
Oh, and having been the Grand Marshall/Starter of the Rental Derby, I can stand as the officiant for the Baby Bear-Digital Death ski off.
My money is on Baby Bear, though that shan't color my view of the proceedings.
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08-13-2015, 10:50 PM #794
from stuff i've read from proponents, deed restricted sales benefit a lot of folks. Even if they don't gain the appreciation, they get access to and benefits from the credit system, and often move up to a market unit successfully. I'm a little confused why JHHA decided to let that ban on appreciation expire after 20 years or whatever the number is.
Like snapt said, commute from idaho to JH ranges from 30 in Victor proper to 45ish from Driggs. I work north of JH and drive 55 minutes each way, each day- and am stoked to do it, but i fkn dig living in spudcountry. It's been the 'affordable' option to living in JH for decades. But like StuporGaper says, it's getting super tight there too.
Probably millions of people drive 30-45 minutes to work every day from where they could afford or chose to live. Only difference in JH is that the town/county planners, so by extension the 'community', set, years ago, a goal of housing 65% of the JH workforce in JH. Now that the rental pool is reaching epic clusterfuck, that percent, which was never close to 65%, is dropping even more. I'm conflicted, personally. I get the idea that workers bring a soul and sense of community if they live where they work. But personally i'll take smaller town Teton Valley living any day, grinning as I crest the pass each evening over to the 'bright side', sipping a tall PBR from the incredibly well located Stagecoach Drive-thru Liquor Store...Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Patterson Hood of the DBT's
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08-14-2015, 06:22 AM #795
Where I live, the Fraser River Valley in CO, we've had some affordable housing initiatives over the course of the last couple of decades. In my opinion, they have not provided a sizable benefit to either a. a large number of people or b. the community as a whole. Anytime the topic comes up in a public meeting, people can't differentiate between the need for "employee housing" i.e. lower cost rental units for people with lower income jobs in the service industry and "attainable housing" i.e. deed restricted home "ownership" for moderate income families in such. Which is it that Jackson needs most? What does JMHR do for their employees.
Does the bus go to Alpine? What would the four units in this place rent for monthly http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...03-47337?row=9 ? Show me some multifamily lots in Victor.
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08-14-2015, 07:59 AM #796
yea they have buses that go to JH from both alpine area and over the pass.
not sure what the schedule was like but when my brother and sister in law lived in victor she would use the bus quite often and are geared towards typical work hours
Seems like a lot of friends have been buying down in the Alpine zone recently vs in the past most were looking over the pass. lots of pros and cons to each. I think the idea of staying in Wyo is appealing for income tax purposes
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08-14-2015, 08:56 AM #797
^^^I know Jackson/Teton Valley is a big and busy place but I'm guessing we've got some mutual friends. All my friends live in ID.
I find this stuff interesting because it has everything to do with the sustainability of a lifestyle many of us are committed to. That's to say, what is "working class" is a resort town going to look like?
From afar, it looks to me like Jackson has two challenges. One is a commuting problem. If we are talking about a 2/2 with a garage in Jackson for <$400K, I don't think that is going to happen. I'm guessing the demand for that property from school teachers, bank managers, white collar folk up at the 'Vill is about infinite. Your housing authority (assuming you have one), could levy a 1%ish real estate transfer tax and build some deed restricted units then have a dick sucking contest about "saving the town".
Problems are a. you can build enough units to make a real difference b. mortgages are for 30 years. You can't enforce that the teacher/fireman/town employee stays in their job that long so you end up providing a benefit to someone for who is was not intended. c. you got government involved in building the house of cards, which is your economy being tied to real estate values, higher and higher.
I think a some reasonable solution to this challenge is to embrace commuting and the bedroom communities. Expand bus service, build a commuter center (like latch key for adults), etc. Before you know it, population growth (and demographic shift) will lead to changes in Victor, Alpine etc. I know the Mo's that run Victor will hate it, but that's life.
I think the employee housing challenge is bigger. On one hand, you can say that it is the employer's problem and that if they can't find the employees because of a shortage of affordable rentals, then they should either raise their wages or create the affordable housing themselves. What I've seen happen in this scenario is that the large corporate employers (ski area etc.) provide the housing by whatever means necessary to their employees. Employment with housing attached is indentured servitude and sucks. Also, small businesses get squeezed because they don't have to capital to provide housing. I think this is a bigger concern long term because you risk becoming a "company town". I haven't seen this yet on a whole town scale but many base villages have suffered this fate where all the "soul" is gone because the small businesses all got kicked out.
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08-14-2015, 08:57 AM #798
Nine out of ten folks I talk to who are looking/buying/bought in Alpine cite winter pass driving as the biggest factor. Personally I find the pass a breeze and am scared shitless by the semis on ice in the canyon...
Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Patterson Hood of the DBT's
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08-14-2015, 09:03 AM #799
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08-14-2015, 09:04 AM #800
Something that I do think is a bit different for Jackson compared to most other ski towns is that the tourist economy in Jackson isn't really centered just around the ski resort. Everyone I know up there says that town is way busier in the summer due to tourist traffic heading through GTNP and Yellowstone, which makes sense. So you have a demand for a whole stack of low wage jobs (restaurant staff, gift shop retail, etc.) being provided by companies that aren't big corporate employers - moreso than most "ski towns" I've spent any time in.
Another interesting thing about Jackson is it seems to me that there's a severe lack of multi-unit developments compared to almost any other resort destination. That makes for a lot less "affordable" housing (purchasing or renting) no matter what other programs are in place.
I don't have any solutions, just a couple observations about things that seem different about Jackson compared to other places - which would imply to me that solutions that worked or failed elsewhere may or may not have the same result in Jackson.
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