Caroline Gleich Harrassment Story

[skifishbum]

theres a damn good reason
i dont work as a fishing guide anymore
and it aint that im a better stick than alkasquawlik

[happytimefunbox]

As the board drips with the casual sexism Caroline correctly objects too dismissing you as an internet sjw is about right.

Given she's trying to be a guide she should expect questions of her leadership experience and leadership skills. Men get them too from what I've heard, and there's more than one rock god or ripping skier that didn't make guide because they failed to capably lead clients. Leadership is separate from the skiing skills & the mountain skills and that advice seemed to me well intentioned and reasonable.

Unpossible. It was sexism that held CG back from avy 3 and guide certs. There is nofuckingway it wasnt.

I read it on a blog it has to be true

[dunfree]

Except that wasn’t an AMGA test, it was avy 3. Different institutions.

most of the Avy 3 courses I've seen were oriented towards leaders and leadership decision making. AIARE 3 was (note - required 20 days of travel with decision making), one of the UAC level 3 choices is.

[Supermoon]

As the board drips with the casual sexism Caroline correctly objects too dismissing you as an internet sjw is about right.

I don’t understand this at all. What are you saying? That because I don’t insert myself in every thread with casual sexism that I can’t call out overt sexism here?

If you think I only call sexists out on the internet then you are also mistaken.

[The SnowShow]

I see, so since you’re “part Hispanic” living in Utah you feel comfortable speaking for African Americans, gays, and full Latinos? And women? rotfl

Utah has minorities?

What’s whiter - Portland or SLC?

[telefreewasatch]

I don’t understand this at all. What are you saying? That because I don’t insert myself in every thread with casual sexism that I can’t call out overt sexism here?

If you think I only call sexists out on the internet then you are also mistaken.

Caroline?

[Meadow Skipper]

Utah has minorities?

What’s whiter - Portland or SLC?

SLC isn’t really white, is that what you’re getting at? Suggestion: Google strawman argument.

most of the Avy 3 courses I've seen were oriented towards leaders and leadership decision making. AIARE 3 was (note - required 20 days of travel with decision making), one of the UAC level 3 choices is.

The guy should have stuck to what he was getting paid for, teaching and then evaluating snow science skills. But then OTOH I wouldn’t have learned that there’s no prejudice in the US because otherwise how would Asians and Indians have any money? Valuable thought process.

[dunfree]

The guy should have stuck to what he was getting paid for, teaching and then evaluating snow science skills.

from course description

Participants are required to form opinions, to take on leadership roles, and to utilized team members skills to assist in the process of forecasting avalanche hazard and snow stability and making appropriate terrain choices.

[Meadow Skipper]

maybe you should read what the course is about?

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Reads like snow science to me.

skills to assist in the process of forecasting avalanche hazard and snow stability and making appropriate terrain choices.

I still don’t see a window for the kind of criticism she described.

Context matters.

We might be splitting hairs, but what I read him saying to her was out of line for avy 3.

[Self Jupiter]

Put yourself in her shoes. How would those comments lead you to think you were treated objectively/fairly?

[camlax]

I guess I should finally contribute to this since I've seen all sorts of wrong info. I was in that level 3 with her. She was night and day below everybody else in everything. Being a pro skier does not make you an immediate expert in avalanche operations. The course instructors were very professional and made the right decision. I'm sure she'll do fine coming back in a few years. What was amusing was the posse of UMA guides trailing her around everywhere.

[happytimefunbox]

I guess I should finally contribute to this since I've seen all sorts of wrong info. I was in that level 3 with her. She was night and day below everybody else in everything. Being a pro skier does not make you an immediate expert in avalanche operations. The course instructors were very professional and made the right decision. I'm sure she'll do fine coming back in a few years. What was amusing was the posse of UMA guides trailing her around everywhere.

SEXIST

[The SnowShow]

I guess I should finally contribute to this since I've seen all sorts of wrong info. I was in that level 3 with her. She was night and day below everybody else in everything. Being a pro skier does not make you an immediate expert in avalanche operations. The course instructors were very professional and made the right decision. I'm sure she'll do fine coming back in a few years. What was amusing was the posse of UMA guides trailing her around everywhere.

Oh word? Were the UMA guides looking to get lucky?

[skifishbum]

I guess I should finally contribute to this since I've seen all sorts of wrong info. I was in that level 3 with her. She was night and day below everybody else in everything. Being a pro skier does not make you an immediate expert in avalanche operations. The course instructors were very professional and made the right decision. I'm sure she'll do fine coming back in a few years. What was amusing was the posse of UMA guides trailing her around everywhere.

so youre saying i knew 2 people who worked hard and passed that avvy 3 cert and both are saying the constructive critism had merit and sub avvy 2 skills aint gonna get it when you need to show competence to be certified
perhaps avvy 2 certs should come with a requirement of proof of competence to better prepare those special snowflakes
strong work hope to ski ya round next season
maybe even tune your skis
or put your axe in the stonegrinder

[happytimefunbox]

Oh word? Were the UMA guides looking to get lucky?

From the padded room collection of stuff that ll more than likely be nsfw...

SjWs you must now invade that thread to defend CGs honor against the drippingly sexist Hott Butt Mudd! His (or hers... ladies squeeze out hott butt mudds as good as a guy does you sexist bastards) overt discriminatory posting of CGs fun puppies CAN NOT STAND! Only YOU can keep this from being a #metoo moment!


https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...=5377615<br />

[Self Jupiter]

I didn’t read this entire dumpster fire of a thread, was only able to make it thru 1/2 the other one- can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t see MS or Supermoon Baggins claiming she should have passed.

Personally I’m just opining that the comments from the instructor about/regarding outside-the-classroom/test behavior of CG were totally out of line.

[Self Jupiter]

Apparently I’m not smoking enough weed at the moment to be woke enough to follow your point as it pertains to my posting

The last hour of this IF sess has me feeling very unwoke

[Danno]

Let's try this again, shall we?

Attachment 239946

[Meadow Skipper]

I didn’t read this entire dumpster fire of a thread, was only able to make it thru 1/2 the other one- can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t see MS or Supermoon Baggins claiming she should have passed.

That's because you're not really stupid like the Fugitive, Bromontana, and the SnowShow. I've lost interest in their reading comprehension issues and pathetic need to draw attention to their dumbassedness.

[concretejungle]

That's because you're not really stupid like the Fugitive, Bromontana, and the SnowShow. I've lost interest in their reading comprehension issues and pathetic need to draw attention to their dumbassedness.

But you're still all in on CG's seemingly "pathetic need to draw attention?"

[Meadow Skipper]

My argument doesn't require MS & SM saying she should've passed.

That's because I didn't, right, moron?

But you're still all in on CG's seemingly "pathetic need to draw attention?"

Point taken, I'm out.

[Supermoon]

In an objective world



In the real world where conclusions come before facts & honesty takes a back seat to fucking the chicken.

<crickets>

I can hold multiple, non-contradictory, thoughts in my head at the same time.

1) CG should pass or fail her class based on her skill alone. Sounds like maybe she wasn't ready.
2) The instructor's comments were totally out of line.
3) CG has had a long history of (mostly) men finding many different ways to try and discredit her.
4) Successful women encounter sexism, harassment and internet trolling exponentially more than men do.

I don't see anyone saying anything that would contradict those opinions.

And yeah, I appreciate the perspective of one of the most long-term pro skier mags on something like this.

[Self Jupiter]

^word is bond. ✌️

[happytimefunbox]

Perhaps there's a reading comp issue embedded within the assumption that I'm stating or assuming anyone said she should have passed? Surely, a smart, stable and successful guy who's totally-above-this-nonsense can appreciate the nuance I was speaking to without becoming a raging cunt.

My argument doesn't require MS & SM saying she should've passed. The issue is throwing every instance of adversity under the bias/sexism umbrella while ignoring first hand experience and humping a popular narrative just to get off. Something SM is very much on record doing, MS just being a spicy grump as per norm.

The hyper vigilance associated with coddling a pop star's ego.

Juxtaposed against the failure of an arrogant & clearly entitled student to show some humility and deference in an educational environment. Which leads to a rebuke of the student's efforts and an appeal to the court of social justice practitioners for ego remediation.

The dilution of societal value placed on one's willingness to face hardship with grace and humility vs. the deification of arrogance and prideful ignorance.

It's a spectacle. Particularly the willingness of SJWs in Cascadia to flatly 'overrule' the judgement of those that were there. Absurdity^2

It's an externality of the herd component: the willingness to forgo underlying principles in the zest for a prize (in this case, social elevation relative to the flock).

Bro! Bro.... brrroooooooo.... you gotta dumb this shit down bro. Meadow Tripper sez we is unintelligence. You cant change his mind with your multisyllibistic word salad of fanciness. These are the cold hard facts! CG is the bestest most skilled mountaineer, group leader, guide and has fought a long career against systematic sexism... kinda like the swallows swimming upstream to capastrano. And we are teh sexists who cannot overcome our own turgidity to understand what its like to be a woman. Oh and him and superpoon are the elightened few who not only arent sexist, nope, they are here to fight it whether it exists or not!

Sure the instructor probably could have left out the shit about online presence and yadayada. I imagine that instructing individuals into a quasi guide position and putting your stamp of approval on their abilities would be a bigger assessment than just relevant skills. I would hope it touches on attitude, reasoning and motivation as well as all those other heuristic traps that we as fallable humans bring into the field. Regardless of the skill ( which we have robust data wasnt there) if the attitude, reasoning and motivations aren't there or coming from the wrong place then it is the assessors responsibility to bring it out and speak to it. Whomever this avy 3 instructor was that had the balls (oh fuck is that sexist?) to be honest in his assessment needs a thank you. He probably knowingly stuck his neck out right in to the frenzied path of her fired up e-fanbois. No way a blog post wasn't coming when he dropped those words. I m8ght have failed my avy 1 due to putting my skins on backwards and kicking cornices into known heavily traveled drainages (true story I blogged about it hoping to be a UAC forecater soon) Im pretty sure he did us ALL a favor.

Im still struggling that SFB isnt at least avy 3 cerified?? That fucker "guided" me to this scary bootpack and boogied up that shit smoking a handroll before I could get my skis on my pack. I missed the goddamned handrail at the crux move midbooter and ALMOST DIED! If he was less worried about poopfish pics on some ski dentist website he may have been in the moment enough to realize im just a hygenist in a world of denti and way outta my comfort zone. Some people just are not cut out for guide work and should stick to fartography, keeping their spancers happy and liven the dream.

[Norseman]

😁👌