To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[ron johnson]

I love the juxtaposition of dummy Ron claiming others are preoccupied and fear based and he's endless posting and 'researching' when the fucking dumb-dumb simply could get his vax and go on with his life without shitposting or 'researching' or any bother/concern at all. Simply move the fuck on. Your own fucking stupidity wastes your time; sort of like real-life RJ.

I am def cheering for the virus here tho; promise me a love one will post here should you die. The prospect warms my heart.

Don't worry, I've been getting on with my life since May 2020.

[ron johnson]

Regurgitated data as interpreted by a non-science reporter/editor is meaningless. If the data is worth anything it will be published in a peer-reviewed setting to reflect all of the variabiles that went into the conclusions made in the article. Until then, people like you will just confirm your bias by cherry picking pieces that fit your narrative. It's lazy and undisciplined.

Interpreted?? It's basic math.

[ron johnson]

A person could try explaining the base rate fallacy to RJ but why bother when fallacies are his bread and butter.

Nope.

[Adolf Allerbush]

You weren't living until May 2020?

[Adolf Allerbush]

A person could try explaining the base rate fallacy to RJ but why bother when fallacies are his bread and butter.

Evidently he understands it and agrees with you. I guess we can put whatever point he was trying to make to bed.

[KQ]

Life in a Half-Vaccinated Country

[CarlMega]

Hmmm so with 78% to 95% of total population vax in their respective categories, its almost like there's barely any unvax people left to even count no less infect. how bout that?

[MultiVerse]

Evidently he understands it and agrees with you. I guess we can put whatever point he was trying to make to bed.

Hmmm so with 78% to 95% of total population vax in their respective categories, its almost like there's barely any unvax people left to even count no less infect. how bout that?

Yeah, it's weird because his chart illustrates the base rate fallacy and yet he preceded the graphics with the word 'nope' so who knows maybe he likes the pretty pictures but doesn't know what it means.


In case anyone cares about RJ's misleading use of data: The more vaccinated a population, the more we’ll hear of the vaccinated getting infected.

For example, say there’s a community that’s 100% vaccinated. If there’s transmission, we know breakthrough cases will happen. So, by definition, 100% of outbreak cases will be among the vaccinated. It will just be 100% out of a smaller number.

Cue Israel. They are one of the global leaders in vaccinations; 85% of Israeli adults are vaccinated. So, say we have the following scenario: With an infection rate among the vaccinated of 2% and infection rate of 13% among the unvaccinated, this would give us an efficacy rate of 85%. This is pretty darn close to the clinical trial efficacy rate, meaning the Pfizer vaccine is still working against Delta.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...are-vaccinated

[GiBo]

Went to an outdoor bbq last Wednesday night. Rode in an enclosed truck cab with my buddy's friend for about 45 minutes round trip. I just assumed the guy was vaccinated. I suppose I've been getting a little laxed since I've been vaccinated. Got text from my buddy the next day that the dude was really sick and he was unvaxded. The fuckstick didn't get tested until Saturday. So I go into work Tuesday and feel really shitty. Chills. No energy at all. Text my buddy, fuckstick friend was positive. So I call the work hotline and they say go home for 7 days and get tested ASAP. Got tested yesterday. Should know today or tomorrow if I'm a break through. My Dr thinks it's not likely, but it's possible.

I would just like to echo what many of you have been saying. Fuck Ron and his ilk. Fuck all you pussy, piece of shit assholes. I'm to the point where I actually wish death on these motherfuckers. I feel like it's the only hope for the rest of us.

[LeeLau]

I would just like to echo what many of you have been saying. Fuck Ron and his ilk. Fuck all you pussy, piece of shit assholes. I'm to the point where I actually wish death on these motherfuckers. I feel like it's the only hope for the rest of us.

Tough to disagree, But I've gotten to the point where I don't really care what happens to the unvaxxed whether they live or die. Indifferent

[Kinnikinnick]

QQm




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[KQ]

QQm

Pretty much.

[Talisman]

But I've gotten to the point where I don't really care what happens to the unvaxxed whether they live or die. Indifferent

If the unvaxxed were the only ones harmed by their choice it would be one thing, but there are some who can't get vaccinated because of compromised immune systems and other valid medical reasons and the unvaccinated are assisting in the spread and mutation of the disease. Small pox persisted for ~200 years after Jenner's discovery because of anti-vaxxers.

[DougW]

Tough to disagree, But I've gotten to the point where I don't really care what happens to the unvaxxed whether they live or die. Indifferent

yup, same here

they have the right unless in a Health Care job to be unvaxxed, but don't expect me to contribute to a gofund me if you get covid hard if unvaxxed

[The AD]

Yes it is. It's clear that the effectiveness of the vaccines at preventing infection diminishes over time. All you can hope for now is that they help reduce severe outcomes, but one would expect that to fall as well.

Is there evidence the COVID-19 vaccines do, though? Our assumption is that their effectiveness will diminish, but I wouldn't call it "clear" until there's data to back up that assumption.

[DougW]

Question ? There was a guy on CBC immunocompromised from having a kidney transplant. He and whole family been vaxxed , head of the line etc. Now the guy has been tested and has no antibodies. So wants a booster. Now is it possible that a booster will not do anything? If your body can't mount a immune response then it can't mount a response no matter if you had Pfizer on a IV drip? A question not a statement of fact. found link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWe-Mda0HU4&t=57s though it doesn't state if 3rd dose will do that much?

Different ? Purely from a selfish place. As it seems that immunity in the vaxxed is waning over time, lets make that assumption, just like it was predicted in those who had infection , would it not be advantageous for the vaxxed to be exposed to covid periodically to keep your immune system primed. Many problems with this in terms of transmission etc.

[MultiVerse]

Now is it possible that a booster will not do anything? If your body can't mount a immune response then it can't mount a response no matter if you had Pfizer on a IV drip?

From the NEJM:

This study showed that administration of a third dose of the BNT162b2 (mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine) vaccine to solid-organ transplant recipients significantly improved the immunogenicity of the vaccine, with no cases of Covid-19 reported in any of the patients. However, a large proportion of the patients remain at risk for Covid-19. Barrier measures should be maintained, and vaccination of the relatives of these patients should be encouraged.

Is there evidence the COVID-19 vaccines do, though? Our assumption is that their effectiveness will diminish, but I wouldn't call it "clear" until there's data to back up that assumption.

Just to add, the fact that the delta variant is more vaccine-resistant is not the same thing as a diminishing immune response in the body over time.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Question ? There was a guy on CBC immunocompromised from having a kidney transplant. He and whole family been vaxxed , head of the line etc. Now the guy has been tested and has no antibodies. So wants a booster. Now is it possible that a booster will not do anything? If your body can't mount a immune response then it can't mount a response no matter if you had Pfizer on a IV drip? A question not a statement of fact.

Different ? Purely from a selfish place. As it seems that immunity in the vaxxed is waning over time, lets make that assumption, just like it was predicted in those who had infection , would it not be advantageous for the vaxxed to be exposed to covid periodically to keep your immune system primed. Many problems with this in terms of transmission etc.

My sister is an organ transplant recipient. She got the vaccine but her doctors told her because she's on anti-rejection medication (i.e., immune suppressant) that it was likely her body wouldn't produce much of an immune response. She's a pharmacist so she sees sick people daily...to say she's worried is putting it lightly. Point being, your CBC story checks against my real world example.

As for your second statement I don't think that's how vaccines work. Meaning, losing antibodies over time is normal from what I've read but your body doesn't 100% forget how to fight off viruses.

[GiBo]

If the unvaxxed were the only ones harmed by their choice it would be one thing, but there are some who can't get vaccinated because of compromised immune systems and other valid medical reasons and the unvaccinated are assisting in the spread and mutation of the disease. Small pox persisted for ~200 years after Jenner's discovery because of anti-vaxxers.

This and the fact that had fuckstick friend of my friend been vaccinated, even if he had the virus, he'd have a much smaller viral load which makes it less likely that he'd spread it.

[LeeLau]

If the unvaxxed were the only ones harmed by their choice it would be one thing, but there are some who can't get vaccinated because of compromised immune systems and other valid medical reasons and the unvaccinated are assisting in the spread and mutation of the disease. Small pox persisted for ~200 years after Jenner's discovery because of anti-vaxxers.

That is definitely a negative. But for those who can't be vaccinated; well that will always be a problem for them correct? I can help do the right thing by getting vaccinated but seeking to convince others is not a hill I wish to climb.

As for other development of other mutations and spread; I have no answer for that. That is clearly a negative and anti-vaxxers/vaccine skeptics have that cross to bear

My thoughts are that it seems like an intractable decision for some. And in this society in which many of us live, people have the right to make choices no matter how bad we (the collective we who have chosen to get vaccinated) think their choices are. And if vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers suffer from those choices then so be it. And if vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers do not suffer from those choices and are fine, then so be it.

I've made my choice to accept the (miniscule) risks of getting the vaccine. Proselytizing to vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers; pretending to care about what happens to them in the faux "thoughts and prayers"..... well I simply don't care.

[Adolf Allerbush]

That is definitely a negative. But for those who can't be vaccinated; well that will always be a problem for them correct? I can help do the right thing by getting vaccinated but seeking to convince others is not a hill I wish to climb.

As for other development of other mutations and spread; I have no answer for that. That is clearly a negative and anti-vaxxers/vaccine skeptics have that cross to bear

My thoughts are that it seems like an intractable decision for some. And in this society in which many of us live, people have the right to make choices no matter how bad we (the collective we who have chosen to get vaccinated) think their choices are. And if vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers suffer from those choices then so be it. And if vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers do not suffer from those choices and are fine, then so be it.

I've made my choice to accept the (miniscule) risks of getting the vaccine. Proselytizing to vaccine skeptics/anti-vaxxers; pretending to care about what happens to them in the faux "thoughts and prayers"..... well I simply don't care.

Vaccines can be required of the population to partake in various activities such as attending public school...i'm looking forward to when that happens.

[bennymac]

Some of you really seem to be struggling with wrapping your heads around something that a 10 year old could grasp



In this scenario the covid infection rate is 100x higher in the vaccinated group.

[DougW]

From the NEJM:

This study showed that administration of a third dose of the BNT162b2 (mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine) vaccine to solid-organ transplant recipients significantly improved the immunogenicity of the vaccine,.

Interesting that the 3rd dose/kick at the cat was that effective. Differentially not law of diminishing return.

[DougW]

...

In this scenario the covid infection rate is 100x higher in the vaccinated group.

the absolute number is 100 times higher but that is not the rate, or is that your point that they don't understand its not a rate?

per rates one is .1% in vaxxed and 50% in un

[old goat]

This and the fact that had fuckstick friend of my friend been vaccinated, even if he had the virus, he'd have a much smaller viral load which makes it less likely that he'd spread it.

As has been pointed out more than once, if the virus in question is delta the viral load is the same whether vaccinated or unvaccinated. That's the reason for the CDC's change in policy.

Some of you really seem to be struggling with wrapping your heads around something that a 10 year old could grasp



In this scenario the covid infection rate is 100x higher in the vaccinated group.

Double check your math. And did you mean unvaccinated?